News Article: The Dubois Saga - Pt 3: Gloves in MTL Edition

[Habs Halifax]

His overpaid amount will now start to hurt us when KK and Suzuki need to get paid. MB had poor foresight thinking signing a player that plays 60-70 games a year should be your highest paid player. He got lucky with the pandemic and having cap space when the cap stayed flat. Well that flat cap is going to catch up to him because Price contract really hurts the team. Of all the players making 10M or more, I would take all of them over Price. I have always and will always be a fan of Price, but he will become a detriment to this team. I pray the Canucks take him on at some point... Having Dubois here on 5M next year would be nice if we could surround him with other star players. Not that Dubois and Tatar are on the same page, but production wise they are similar. So we lose one as a UFA to replace him with another making similar money... It's not a net gain. 5 more seasons of Price at 10.5M... Next years cap is likely falt too if the stands remain empty for the entire short regular season.

We are going to have to live with Price being overpaid by about $1M - $2M range. I've gotten over it. Expectations are high and I get that. I'm a but upset with his performace last night as well but posters are going overboard with it.

Flat cap next year is a real thing but the CBA agreement is one extra Million. We need more than that but so does 75% of the teams in the NHL.

 

[malcb33]

His overpaid amount will now start to hurt us when KK and Suzuki need to get paid.

I agree Price's contract is poor, but that's not the only reason it will hurt when Suzuki and KK need new deals, because Alzner is also still being paid out to remember...

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

I agree Price's contract is poor, but that's not the only reason it will hurt when Suzuki and KK need new deals, because Alzner is also still being paid out to remember...

Alzner doesn't hurt that bad, he's 2M against the cap next season and under 1m for the two seasons after that. KK is up first and I can't see him getting more than 2.5-3.5 on a bridge deal if he cracks 30 points this year. If he does better, then that will change things. Suzuki on the other hand is going to cost a lot on a long term deal. I hope they can get something around 6x6 depending on what type of points he puts up.

 

[Scintillating10]

The prospect of having Suzuki, Duboi and Danault is very attractive. PLD may not have top notch offensive skill but I see him developing in the same mold of the Couturiers, RORs which would allow Suze to focus mainly on offense. Danault on the third line would be icing on the cake

I doubt Dubois reaches their levels. Dubois is terrible on faceoffs. Only 45% last year.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

The prospect of having Suzuki, Duboi and Danault is very attractive. PLD may not have top notch offensive skill but I see him developing in the same mold of the Couturiers, RORs which would allow Suze to focus mainly on offense. Danault on the third line would be icing on the cake

Can't afford all 3.

 

[malcb33]

Alzner doesn't hurt that bad, he's 2M against the cap next season and under 1m for the two seasons after that. KK is up first and I can't see him getting more than 2.5-3.5 on a bridge deal if he cracks 30 points this year. If he does better, then that will change things. Suzuki on the other hand is going to cost a lot on a long term deal. I hope they can get something around 6x6 depending on what type of points he puts up.

So Price being over paid by 1-2M hurts but paying Alzner who doesn’t contribute anything while taking up similar cap space “doesn’t hurt that bad”? Not sure I follow that logic, unless you expected Price to sign for well under his current deal.

The Alzner deal compounds Price being over paid.

 

[le_sean]

I doubt Dubois reaches their levels. Dubois is terrible on faceoffs. Only 45% last year.

Players tend to get better with age. He’s at 52.5% this year.

Crosby is a player that was horrible at them when he was young now he’s one of the best. It’s the easiest thing to improve.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

So Price being over paid by 1-2M hurts but paying Alzner who doesn’t contribute anything while taking up similar cap space “doesn’t hurt that bad”? Not sure I follow that logic, unless you expected Price to sign for well under his current deal.

My logic? You want my logic? It's pretty clear to anyone that has any foresight (small little dig )

Alzner is 2M next year. Price is overpaid 2M next year. Alzner is 1M the following year, Price is still 2M overpaid. Alzner in 2 years is still on the books for under 1M, Price in 2 years from this season is still overpaid 2M? Fast forward to Price being 38 and making 10.5M as a goalie. 2M overpaid? 3M? 5M?

That's my logic.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I won't be surprised if the Knights make a move for Dubois.

Glass, Krebs, 1st, Fleury
for
Dubois

Blue Jackets flip Korpisalo to the Sabres or Oilers

Would the Knights ever be scary with Dubois added to their team.

 

[malcb33]

My logic? You want my logic? It's pretty clear to anyone that has any foresight (small little dig )

Alzner is 2M next year. Price is overpaid 2M next year. Alzner is 1M the following year, Price is still 2M overpaid. Alzner in 2 years is still on the books for under 1M, Price in 2 years from this season is still overpaid 2M? Fast forward to Price being 38 and making 10.5M as a goalie. 2M overpaid? 3M? 5M?

That's my logic.

Yes, your right and believe it or not I also understand basic math, so you don't need to be so condescending.

What I am saying (which you clearly seem to be missing) is that without the Alzner buyout cap, it would mean that Price being overpaid would hurt less in the short-term.

Alzner buyout
2020-21: $3,958,333
2021-22: $1,958,333
2022-23: $833,333
2023-24: $833,333

KK's contract needs to be renewed for 21-22 season and Suzuki needs a new deal for 22-23. Both need new deals while Alzner is still being paid, so the problem of Price being overpaid is compounded by also having to pay Alzner for doing nothing.

That 2M in 21-22 could be 50% or more of KK's new deal and the $833K could end up being 20-25%. That doesn't hurt?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Alzner doesn't hurt that bad, he's 2M against the cap next season and under 1m for the two seasons after that. KK is up first and I can't see him getting more than 2.5-3.5 on a bridge deal if he cracks 30 points this year. If he does better, then that will change things. Suzuki on the other hand is going to cost a lot on a long term deal. I hope they can get something around 6x6 depending on what type of points he puts up.

I have KK around $3M+ on a bridge but that depends on 2 or 3 years in term. Lehkonen got $2.4M on a 2 year bridge.

I would go 2 year bridge with KK to overlap Suzuki and Romanov. We don't have the cap space to give KK a long term deal. I would bridge all 3 until the cap grows and Weber then retires freeing up much needed space for the younger core

 

[HostileCapSpace]

NOPE! He's still a top 5 goalie in the world. Not a great contract but you act like he has Bob's stats for an entire season. Price showed his ability when we need him in the playoffs. It's ok to criticize him cause he did go after the max deal but lets not go overboard with it.

Price is like $1-$2M overpaid. $8.5M looks so much better. His overpaid amount has not hurt us until this season when we were able to make moves. An extra few Million would go a long way to retain some players and we would not be so tight against the cap right now

I never said he was a bad goalie, I said his contract was bad. Yeah, Bobrovski is worst, but Price is up there.

His contract is why we won't be able to re-sign Danault/Tatar this summer. It didn't have an impact before because we weren't spending to the cap but now it will. You're better off with a 7.5 million goalie and a decent backup but with extra money to spend on top forwards. At 10.5 million Price should steal games regularly, which he doesnt anymore. He's good, but not 10.5 million good. Just imagine in three years.

This isn't Price hate, it's contract hate.

EDIT: I mean, he's paid more than twice what Allen makes this year and will be paid 5 times what Allen makes next year. His numbers don't justify a five-time bigger salary. Not one bit.

 

[Pietrangelo]

I doubt PLD goes to a Canadian team if he’s traded during those season. I would think it would be hard to wait out the 14 days without him, Along with whatever players would be given up for him

 

[jaffy27]

Zegras is with the Ducks, isn't he ? I don't really see VGK going for Dubois. Would be extremely pleased to see PLD in MTL, but at what cost ? I guess we'll have to wait and see

I stand corrected!!!
I was thinking Krebs

 

[Habs Halifax]

I never said he was a bad goalie, I said his contract was bad. Yeah, Bobrovski is worst, but Price is up there.

His contract is why we won't be able to re-sign Danault/Tatar this summer. It didn't have an impact before because we weren't spending to the cap but now it will. You're better off with a 7.5 million goalie and a decent backup but with extra money to spend on top forwards. At 10.5 million Price should steal games regularly, which he doesnt anymore. He's good, but not 10.5 million good. Just imagine in three years.

This isn't Price hate, it's contract hate.

EDIT: I mean, he's paid more than twice what Allen makes this year and will be paid 5 times what Allen makes next year. His numbers don't justify a five-time bigger salary. Not one bit.

Sorry but "one of the worse contracts in the NHL" means you think he is a bad goalie. He's either worth or not. I think he's not worth it but he's only $1M - $2M overpaid. That to me don't make it one of the worse contracts.

 

[HostileCapSpace]

We are going to have to live with Price being overpaid by about $1M - $2M range. I've gotten over it. Expectations are high and I get that. I'm a but upset with his performace last night as well but posters are going overboard with it.

Flat cap next year is a real thing but the CBA agreement is one extra Million. We need more than that but so does 75% of the teams in the NHL.

I mean, I get it. As time goes by his contract will not be as bad if the cap increases, but at the same time there's a significant chance his play decreases a bit as he ages. I understand MB kind of had his hands tied when he became a UFA but I guarantee that most GMs were not happy to see a goalie get so much on the market. Look at the ridiculous contract Bobroski had - it was because of the Price contract. He never would have had that otherwise.

Having to spend 13-15 million on goaltenders, as good as Price-Allen are, is too much. If we win the cup this year, yes, it will have been worth it. But starting this summer this contract is going to hurt MB when he tries to keep his core forwards and Ds.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I mean, I get it. As time goes by his contract will not be as bad if the cap increases, but at the same time there's a significant chance his play decreases a bit as he ages. I understand MB kind of had his hands tied when he became a UFA but I guarantee that most GMs were not happy to see a goalie get so much on the market. Look at the ridiculous contract Bobroski had - it was because of the Price contract. He never would have had that otherwise.

Having to spend 13-15 million on goaltenders, as good as Price-Allen are, is too much. If we win the cup this year, yes, it will have been worth it. But starting this summer this contract is going to hurt MB when he tries to keep his core forwards and Ds.

It is what it is. He's $1M - $2M overpaid. Might cost us Lehkonen or Armia

 

[HostileCapSpace]

Sorry but "one of the worse contracts in the NHL" means you think he is a bad goalie. He's either worth or not. I think he's not worth it but he's only $1M - $2M overpaid. That to me don't make it one of the worse contracts.

It is one of the worst contracts because it absolutely handcuffs the GM for years to come. But I'm of the opinion that very few players should be making 10-11-12 million a year. The Habs payscale is actually pretty good... except for Price. He messes everything up.

For the record, I also think contracts like Tavares are also not good. Marner's contract is absolutely terrible also. Giving that much to a RFA is ridiculous.

Anyway, agree to disagree. I have a different vision of how a team should be built cap wise. I like MB's approach of strenght through depth, I just find that the goalie contract situation goes against that.

 

[Scriptor]

Can't afford all 3.

Can so.

 

[Scriptor]

Yes, your right and believe it or not I also understand basic math, so you don't need to be so condescending.

What I am saying (which you clearly seem to be missing) is that without the Alzner buyout cap, it would mean that Price being overpaid would hurt less in the short-term.

Alzner buyout
2020-21: $3,958,333
2021-22: $1,958,333
2022-23: $833,333
2023-24: $833,333

KK's contract needs to be renewed for 21-22 season and Suzuki needs a new deal for 22-23. Both need new deals while Alzner is still being paid, so the problem of Price being overpaid is compounded buy also having to pay Alzner for doing nothing.

That 2M in 21-22 could be 50% or more of KK's new deal and the $833K could end up being 20-25%. That doesn't hurt?

Any buyout money is wasted Cap space but, it's all relative.

Suzuki and Romanov get their second contract at the same time, at the end of next season. KK and Lehkonen get renewed this offseason as RFAs. Armia is an UFA, along with Tatar and Danault. If all the lads tow the line and have reasonable demands, it's entirely possible to re-sign everyone but, I would expect to see the Habs not re-signing Armia, not for 4M, for sure and mot for 3.5M either. If Armia accepts the 10% raise at 2.86M. he'd be worth re-signing because he'd still be a tradeable asset. Same goes for re-signing Lehkonen at 2.75M, no more.

BY the end of next season, both might be gone, though but, at least we'd get assets in return for them.

Tatar and Danault top payouts shouldn't be more than 5.5M. If it is, one needs to be sacrificed.

Byron and one of Edmundson or Chiarot -- ideally Edmundson, because Chiarot's contract will be more easily moved next year or, will run out naturally in the next offseason if he can't be moved or is kept for a playoff push -- need to go at the end of this season.

A lot of personnel movement will be required over the next two years, including moving Allen for the second year of his extension, to replace him with the younger -- and cheaper -- Primeau. Still, many of the better depth players can be kept while doing so.

 

[Price is Wright]

It is one of the worst contracts because it absolutely handcuffs the GM for years to come. But I'm of the opinion that very few players should be making 10-11-12 million a year. The Habs payscale is actually pretty good... except for Price. He messes everything up.

For the record, I also think contracts like Tavares are also not good. Marner's contract is absolutely terrible also. Giving that much to a RFA is ridiculous.

Carey Price is a star. You pay your stars what they ask. Especially when you build a team that basically needs the goalie to bail them out or else they go nowhere.

Paying Johnathan Drouin $5.5M per year on the other hand.

 

[zx81]

LOL nice. I actually made a short spoof parody song about this a few days back..
if your interested.
Yes I cant sing for shit but it was hilarious at the time.

Also check out the Auston Matthews pig nose story you guys might like that...

That was terrible and terrific at the same time.

 

[SpeedyPotato]

If MB wants to make space, there will be moveable contracts. Edmundson shouldn't be too hard to move, same with Allen, to a degree Byron if he's healthy, you can always add a little incentive. I think we'll be fine

 

[Runner77]

Here's a snoozefest of an interview involving The Athletic's Aaron Portzline. He touches upon Dubois from the 4:40 mark to about the 20:00.

Some interesting snippets about why so many players have left Columbus -- something about the city, Jarmo driving a hard bargain in negotiations, Torts. Amazingly, even someone like Portzline who should know better, continues to assert that he has no idea why Dubois wants to leave.

I would say "enjoy" this, but there is no fast forward feature.

 

[Adam Michaels]