The Definition of Insanity...

CantHaveTkachev

Legends
Nov 30, 2004
50,028
30,210
St. OILbert, AB
We need to get into this again, huh?

that's your response? lol
you showed a graph showing Lucic's 5v5 pts/60 falling over the years yet his production remained relatively consistent...yet the year he improved from his 5v5 pts/60 was his worst year to date production wise...
so how does the graph you showed in any way point to his inconsistency?

You ever hear the phrase "past performance may not be indicative of future results"? It applies here.

Makes you wonder why the Leafs even bothered with a rebuild since what they were doing was working so well.
probably cause they were sick of finishing 7th-12th last
that doesn't mean Shanny walked into a tire-fire of an organization like Chiarelli did with the Oilers
the Leafs had NHLers on their roster that are still in the NHL today
the Oilers? not so much

You're gonna argue this while touting a bunch of Leafs players who were not any better?

Eberle=JVR
RNH=Kadri
Draisaitl=Bozak
Klefbom=Reilly

Hall is better than all of them, but Gardiner is a better D than any the Oilers had at that time so call it a wash.

Oilers hold the tiebreaker though.
oops you forgot about some guy named Phil Kessel..
also, tell me where that Leafs group finished in the standings and where the Oilers group finished in the standings?


You've already conceded the Oilers were better set up in terms of talent. The idea that the track record of the teams before that points in question is in any way meaningful is imply baffling.
I'm saying the Oilers had a lot further to go in terms of ending the "tire-fire" stigma that existed with the team because despite the talent, the organization was a mess
the Leafs had real and veteran NHLers defensemen on their roster, they had NHL goalies on their roster..

the Oilers, other than Klefbom, didn't
 

Little Fury

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
17,834
6,805
that's your response? lol
you showed a graph showing Lucic's 5v5 pts/60 falling over the years yet his production remained relatively consistent...yet the year he improved from his 5v5 pts/60 was his worst year to date production wise...
so how does the graph you showed in any way point to his inconsistency?

His overall production in 16/17 was zoomed by career high PP numbers.

The chart shows a player who was traditionally strong 5V5 player posting sub par numbers in that department in three of his last four seasons which suggests a player in decline.

I know you've heard this all before, so i'm not sure why you are playing dumb.

probably cause they were sick of finishing 7th-12th last
that doesn't mean Shanny walked into a tire-fire of an organization like Chiarelli did with the Oilers
the Leafs had NHLers on their roster that are still in the NHL today
the Oilers? not so much

Which has nothing to do with who was on a better spot to build on. Did the leafs, a team that drafted exactly two regular NHLers from 2009 to 2014, have a better pipeline? Did they have better coaching? Better management (lol)?

oops you forgot about some guy named Phil Kessel.

I was using your list, dude.

also, tell me where that Leafs group finished in the standings and where the Oilers group finished in the standings?

It's. Not. Relevant.

I'm saying the Oilers had a lot further to go in terms of ending the "tire-fire" stigma that existed with the team because despite the talent, the organization was a mess.

I was under the impression they hired a new GM and coaching staff as well.

the Leafs had real and veteran NHLers defensemen on their roster, they had NHL goalies on their roster..

the Oilers, other than Klefbom, didn't

The Oilers acquired a starting goalie and a veteran top four D man within weeks of Chia's hiring so I'm not sure that's really was a big hurdle to overcome. And really, if we're talking about building, why value aging vets over young talent? If I was taking over a team that was rebuilding, I'd take a 21 year old Darnell Nurse over 31 year old Dion Phaneuf.

And again, if I'm looking at the two situations, "having Jake Gardiner and James Reimer" are advantages that pale to insignificance next to "having the golden ticket to the best player of his generation."
 
Last edited:

nturn06

Registered User
Nov 9, 2017
3,652
2,947
A common quote is that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Unfortunately, I feel this describes the Oilers to perfection. Last season had a multitude of issues including goaltending and special teams woes but the end-of-season stats are quite clear: the team finished bottom 5 in the NHL in goals against and the team was 1 goal away from finishing bottom 10 in goals for.

I believe a lot of this disastrous season can be linked to two decisions by Chiarelli in relation to team depth:

1. That Caggiula, Puljujarvi and Slepyshev would pick up their play and replace Eberle's scoring on the wing
2. That Benning would continue to improve and soak up the minutes from Sekera's absence

Fast forward a season and Chiarelli's gamble failed miserably on both fronts. Slepyshev, Puljujarvi, and Caggiula put up a combined 52 points last year (one more than Eberle alone the previous season) and Benning's play was up-and-down all year and he ended up only playing 17 minutes a game. By all accounts, the 2017-18 season was a complete disaster.

However, I don't think Chiarelli or the rest of the management team learned from this at all. Going into this season, I still see the SAME two issues that we have failed to address:

1. We lack depth on right wing. Caggiula, Yamamoto, Rattie, Puljujarvi, and Aberg are all competing for top 6 spots - they have a combined 88 points across their entire career. I thought Rieder was a great depth add for the bottom 6 but he's likely the best current candidate for a top 6 spot on RW and he's never topped 37 points in his career. The reality is that we're banking on our existing guys stepping up and if they don't, we'll have next to no scoring depth on the team.

2. Once again Sekera is injured and once again we haven't made any moves to address our lack of defensive depth (at least so far). I honestly felt that even with a healthy Sekera, we needed to add a legit top 4 defenceman to be serious contenders. As it stands, our defensive depth looks something like this:

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Benning
Russell-Bear/Bouchard

Even if all 6 of those players are healthy, I don't think that's a playoff defence. The truth, however, is that we won't be healthy all season - one injury to one of Klefbom, Larsson, or Nurse (who now has a lot of pressure on him to be consistent) and we likely have both Benning and Russell playing top 4 minutes for a number of games. I've seen a lot of talk about bringing in guys like Franson or Enstrom but all that does is help solidify our bottom pairing.

Last season was a disaster and if something doesn't change in the next month, I think this season is shaping up to be one as well. Once again we are banking on our existing options having huge turnarounds and leading us to success. Guys like Rattie or Yamamoto could definitely blow up this season but it's far more likely they struggle. Good teams make moves to address their weaknesses and bad teams pray things magically change - unfortunately, we're looking like we need to pray hard this season.


Let me guess, you wanted Chia to do another blockbuster deal this summer....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Positive

Connor McConnor

Registered User
Nov 22, 2017
5,355
6,247
We got McDavid and Drai for the majority of their careers so even if we suck again for a few years we have foundational pieces to build around once Chia is fired (if we miss playoffs again this year). We all were hoping after 16-17 that the ship was turning around and last season was a massive disappointment. However, even with our cap situation our farm system is actually looking better than it has in the past decade (pretty sad, I know). Our defence, although a bottom feeder currently, have room to continue to grow (Bear/Bouchard) and might even be a position of strength we can trade from in the near future if both turn out to be good as they play somewhat similar roles. If the cap keeps rising and we can get production from our 2 1st round wingers (Poolparty/Yamamoto) with the development of our d-core and Talbot returning to form (or somehow Koskinen being good?) this team could be a playoff team sooner than we think.

I know that is an optimistic way to look at it but to be honest, last season seemed to be the worst it could get...
 

SaltNPeca

Registered User
Jan 9, 2017
2,001
1,780
Köln
It does seem like insanity, but this is why we love the Oilers right?

Despite having McDavid fans and pundits alike can't decide if Edmonton is destined for the SCF or the cellar. In Toronto all signs are pointing up, in Edmonton the compass is spinning. Place your bets!
 

Cloned

Begging for Bega
Aug 25, 2003
79,426
65,425
It does seem like insanity, but this is why we love the Oilers right?

Despite having McDavid fans and pundits alike can't decide if Edmonton is destined for the SCF or the cellar. In Toronto all signs are pointing up, in Edmonton the compass is spinning. Place your bets!

I've been pretty down on this team but I've also maintained that they're probably the most unpredictable roster in the league right now. The year before everyone had a career year, the year afterwards everyone basically crapped the bed (except McDavid). Who even knows what their actual level of ability is? I wouldn't be shocked at another lottery finish, but I wouldn't be shocked at another playoff appearance either.
 

Little Fury

Registered User
Jun 21, 2006
17,834
6,805
I've been pretty down on this team but I've also maintained that they're probably the most unpredictable roster in the league right now. The year before everyone had a career year, the year afterwards everyone basically crapped the bed (except McDavid). Who even knows what their actual level of ability is? I wouldn't be shocked at another lottery finish, but I wouldn't be shocked at another playoff appearance either.

And that to me is an indictment of management. Three years to build a team and we have no idea what it is. No identity, no depth. This team should be lumped in with Carolina or Arizona as franchises incapable of getting their **** together. Having McDavid gives them a bit of a leg up, but last year showed he can't do it alone.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad