The Coming Big Dump

[Soundgarden]

Any interest in Drew Stafford from Buffalo?

Spaling + Ellis + 2nd
for
Stafford (maybe a pick added)

???? IDK just spit balling for s***s and giggs

Honestly I think Stafford for Spaling + a pick would do it.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Any interest in Drew Stafford from Buffalo?

Spaling + Ellis + 2nd
for
Stafford (maybe a pick added)

???? IDK just spit balling for s***s and giggs

Not for that package. Drop Ellis and it's worth a closer look, but even then it's not that attractive. Inconsistent player with work ethic/motivation questions who managed to cash in on a great contract year. He could be better with a coach like Trotz constantly on him, but even Ruff didn't seem to get much consistency from him.

 

[MrJoshua]

I don't understand why people keep bringing Ellis up in trade proposals. This team's offense starts from the back end and Ellis has fantastic puck skills. Yeah, he's smaller than a lot of defenders. But he has the best offensive instincts of anyone on the team's blue line and I think he looked good on the third pair last year. There are much worse things to have than a third-pairing defender with first PP offensive skills.

 

[glenngineer]

I don't understand why people keep bringing Ellis up in trade proposals. This team's offense starts from the back end and Ellis has fantastic puck skills. Yeah, he's smaller than a lot of defenders. But he has the best offensive instincts of anyone on the team's blue line and I think he looked good on the third pair last year. There are much worse things to have than a third-pairing defender with first PP offensive skills.

The fan base if finicky. If a guy doesn't produce right away or do the things that people expect of that player, trade 'em. If that were the case Suter would never have developed here. Klein would've been gone years ago. Other than Pekka and Weber, most every player we've ever had has been a disappointment. I agree with you, third pairing/PP specialist could be a great role for him. Having him and Ekholm as a third pairing could be a very good thing.

 

[NSH615]

I don't understand why people keep bringing Ellis up in trade proposals. This team's offense starts from the back end and Ellis has fantastic puck skills. Yeah, he's smaller than a lot of defenders. But he has the best offensive instincts of anyone on the team's blue line and I think he looked good on the third pair last year. There are much worse things to have than a third-pairing defender with first PP offensive skills.

His size IMO is what makes me dislike him. I don't mind he is smaller, I don't like that he is small and a defenseman. If he were a forward I wouldn't have a problem with him.

 

[PredsV82]

The fan base if finicky. If a guy doesn't produce right away or do the things that people expect of that player, trade 'em. If that were the case Suter would never have developed here. Klein would've been gone years ago. Other than Pekka and Weber, most every player we've ever had has been a disappointment. I agree with you, third pairing/PP specialist could be a great role for him. Having him and Ekholm as a third pairing could be a very good thing.

you're right about expectations, but now that we have Jones, trading Eliis before he Blums out isnt such a bad idea. Now, mind you, I wouldnt dump him for nothing or a 7th round pick, but if a decent trade offer comes along for a forward we need and Ellis is part of the asking price, then I wouldnt hesitate

 

[glenngineer]

you're right about expectations, but now that we have Jones, trading Eliis before he Blums out isnt such a bad idea. Now, mind you, I wouldnt dump him for nothing or a 7th round pick, but if a decent trade offer comes along for a forward we need and Ellis is part of the asking price, then I wouldnt hesitate

I have no problem with him being part of a package to upgrade forwards but you and I both know even if we package him with a bunch of other mid level talent that we aren't going to get that much of an upgrade. We always balk at trade offers because people offer us quantity for our quality so Ellis may fetch a forward prospect with upside that hasn't quite made it yet but I don't know what Ellis and other guys would fetch us. But yes, if someone wanted him, by all means, he is available.

 

[WartracePred]

His size IMO is what makes me dislike him. I don't mind he is smaller, I don't like that he is small and a defenseman. If he were a forward I wouldn't have a problem with him.

Timmonen is the same size. And Franson is twice his size. I guess Franson is better than Kimo because he's bigger.

 

[NSH615]

Timmonen is the same size. And Franson is twice his size. I guess Franson is better than Kimo because he's bigger.

I didn't say that made him a bad player or worse player than someone else. I just said that is why I don't like him.

 

[triggrman]

Timmonen is the same size. And Franson is twice his size. I guess Franson is better than Kimo because he's bigger.

Having seen both, that's not accurate. Ellis isn't much bigger than Sullivan or Ronning. Kimmo was bigger than all of those, no matter what the listed size is.

 

[glenngineer]

If we're talking size who was the better player for us when healthy, Sully or Arnott?

I don't get the hang up on size. I just looked at the roster for next year and there are less than 5 players under 6' tall. We have 3 guys at 6' 4" on the blue line with good wheels. Everyone doesn't have to be big. All guys need to have is talent and it's there with Ellis. Let Housley work with him for a while before we jettison the kid. Rafalski wasn't big but he was a pretty darn good player. Boyle isn't a big guy either and he's done quite alright for himself. Hal Gill was big and was a penalty kill specialist, not much more than that. Everyone gets too caught up in size around here. Size is only good if you know what to do with it. If Ellis knows what to do with his lack of size, he'll be fine. Remember, defensemen take longer to develop. He's only 22. Last year was a train wreck. He had also injured his wrist in Milwaukee so I'm sure that didn't help him either.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

If we're talking size who was the better player for us when healthy, Sully or Arnott?

I don't get the hang up on size. I just looked at the roster for next year and there are less than 5 players under 6' tall. We have 3 guys at 6' 4" on the blue line with good wheels. Everyone doesn't have to be big. All guys need to have is talent and it's there with Ellis. Let Housley work with him for a while before we jettison the kid. Rafalski wasn't big but he was a pretty darn good player. Boyle isn't a big guy either and he's done quite alright for himself. Hal Gill was big and was a penalty kill specialist, not much more than that. Everyone gets too caught up in size around here. Size is only good if you know what to do with it. If Ellis knows what to do with his lack of size, he'll be fine. Remember, defensemen take longer to develop. He's only 22. Last year was a train wreck. He had also injured his wrist in Milwaukee so I'm sure that didn't help him either.

Some good points glenn. I don't see Ellis' size as a concern at all with this current roster. I feel he's going to be put in an excellent position to succeed this season.

 

[Seth Lake]

Been very busy this week, so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but on my way into work yesterday as I was flipping through the channels I came across an interview with Brent Peterson on 104.5 FM. Peterson was asked specifically about where Ellis potentially fit into the roster this year and was point blank in saying that it depends on his skating.

Peterson went on to explain that Ellis was told in year-end meetings to go to a power skating coach this summer because in order to be successful at this level he would need to improve his skating. I fully agree. Ellis has the mental aspects of the game down and has demonstrated that he can compete in 1 v 1 battles despite his size, but in order to win those battles and avoid getting into them, he's gotta improve his footwork and arrive a second faster.

The conversation began with a question of how Weber and Josi played last season, which Peterson said that after 20 games of Weber and Josi passing the puck to each other and expecting the other to take it and go that they learned a mutual respect and finally clicked - Weber was used to passing to Suter and watching Suter skate up ice as Weber stayed back and Josi was a young guy giving the puck to the star captain and trying to let him go. Then they asked about Jones and Peterson explained that it was going to likely be a fluid situation through training camp figuring out where the best fit was and that he could play with any of Klein, Weber, Josi, or Bartley and that expectations are that he's going to make mistakes, but that with Housley on board that he has a strong relationship with his coach and has shown the ability to learn from those mistakes and move forward.

Finally the follow-up went to Bartley and Ekholm and Peterson explained that Ekholm was ready now after two seasons of development and while his role will be limited as he still develops, he will be able to contribute this season especially on the offensive side of the game. Bartley was praised for coming into the league and having success - because he could skate and no one knew who he was so they didn't mark him - but it was also said that he struggled late in the year as the injuries mounted up and they are willing to chalk that up to the general chaos surrounding the whole team at that time, but Bartley signed a new deal now and that he's going to have to move past that and establish himself again otherwise the team will probably be forced to find a more veteran replacement.

Then the conversation with Ellis started off of discussing how Bartley was able to have success and projected as a regular this season due to his smarts AND skating ability, but that while Ellis had the smarts, his skating ability was not yet up to par and that it's an area he's continuing to work on and the team believes he can improve.

Overall, I think we have our 7 defensemen set in pencil, but if they aren't up to par in camp or at the start of the season, I don't think the team is going to be shy about pulling the trigger and making an adjustment to the group to stabilize them as quick as possible. Will be interesting to see if they bring in another NHL vet to play on the Admirals blue line as depth this summer...

 

[PredsV82]

Slake, can you clarify if the team directed Ellis to a specific coach, or just told him "you need to get better, find someone"??

Id be a little dismayed if the team didnt have someone specific in mind who they had confidence in to teach him what they feel he needs

 

[Seth Lake]

Slake, can you clarify if the team directed Ellis to a specific coach, or just told him "you need to get better, find someone"??

Id be a little dismayed if the team didnt have someone specific in mind who they had confidence in to teach him what they feel he needs

No, it was pretty clear that they directed him to a skating coach. As a matter of fact, Peterson said that they found themselves to be such a poor skating team that the team had hired a skating/skills coach (Shawn Allard - Perfect Skating). You have to understand when listening to Peterson that he doesn't pull any punches, is direct, and hilarious all at the same time.

Allard runs his camps out of Ottawa, but I know he was traveling all summer long (including Europe), so I'd be willing to bet that Ellis was referred to someone very specific with whom he could train over the summer at his offseason home.

There has been a noticeable difference in the skill base and polish of our players in the last two seasons with Allard on board than there had been previously.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

Chiming in on the Ellis argument, I just dislike him becuase due to his skating, size, and other things, I expect him to be a 3rd pairing Dman that is very good on the PP for his entire career. I also think his trade value is higher than that. So sell high trade him now for a good piece.

 

[token grinder]

Chiming in on the Ellis argument, I just dislike him becuase due to his skating, size, and other things, I expect him to be a 3rd pairing Dman that is very good on the PP for his entire career. I also think his trade value is higher than that. So sell high trade him now for a good piece.

you just described marc-andre Bergeron? trying to get a 7th for Ellis?

We have name recognition and potential as his value to other teams right now. If he shows up to camp and looks like last year, then it is time to be concerned he is about to blum out.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

you just described marc-andre Bergeron? trying to get a 7th for Ellis?

We have name recognition and potential as his value to other teams right now. If he shows up to camp and looks like last year, then it is time to be concerned he is about to blum out.

I think he will be better than MAB, but yes, I think he could end up in a similar mold, unfortunately.

 

[PredsV82]

Rebumping this thread because the trade proposal thread is derailed on the old subject of we can't draft a forward.

I don't see poile making a game changer trade like moving weber or josi in midseason when this season is probably a lost cause already. But we do need a shakeup and a big dump would be just what the doctor ordered. Dump spaling and bourque for a pick, trade leggy at the deadline when his value is higher, and if someone will take cullen off our hands send him packing as well, and call up beck, watson and sissons and let them at least play like they have something to play for

 

[glenngineer]

So let me get this straight, you want to trade two younger players on good salaries who can chip in offensively on the bottom 6 yet keep overpaid older vets that don't produce? Yeah, I'd do that. SMH.

 

[PredsV82]

So let me get this straight, you want to trade two younger players on good salaries who can chip in offensively on the bottom 6 yet keep overpaid older vets that don't produce? Yeah, I'd do that. SMH.

I already suggested moving Leggy and Cullen. I would be OK with moving Fisher too but I suspect he will be retained. Gaustad stays because we want the guys we bring up to play top 9 or higher, which is why dumping Hendricks, Nystrom or Clune right now wouldn't help anything… this summer, if we need cap room, is another story.



Spaling is nothing special and isn't likely to ever be more than a spare part, and us a pending UFA. Id much rather give Watson a shot, if the season is lost anyway.

Same thing with Bourque, Id rather give Beck or Sissons a shot at proving they belong here.

I would love to move Wilson if we could get something decent for him, but if we can't get anything other than another underperforming player or a non 1st round pick, we might as well let him continue to try to live up to expectations. Same thing with Smith.. If his recent surge would tempt someone into offering us a 1st or a top tier prospect I'd ship him in a heartbeat, as I am not sold on him continuing to develop, but I wouldn't give him away for nothing because he could still turn out to be a 20 goal scorer.

 

[glenngineer]

I already suggested moving Leggy and Cullen. I would be OK with moving Fisher too but I suspect he will be retained. Gaustad stays because we want the guys we bring up to play top 9 or higher, which is why dumping Hendricks, Nystrom or Clune right now wouldn't help anything… this summer, if we need cap room, is another story.



Spaling is nothing special and isn't likely to ever be more than a spare part, and us a pending UFA. Id much rather give Watson a shot, if the season is lost anyway.

Same thing with Bourque, Id rather give Beck or Sissons a shot at proving they belong here.

I would love to move Wilson if we could get something decent for him, but if we can't get anything other than another underperforming player or a non 1st round pick, we might as well let him continue to try to live up to expectations. Same thing with Smith.. If his recent surge would tempt someone into offering us a 1st or a top tier prospect I'd ship him in a heartbeat, as I am not sold on him continuing to develop, but I wouldn't give him away for nothing because he could still turn out to be a 20 goal scorer.

So trade off Spaling and Bourque and keep Nystrom, Hendricks and Gaustad? Yeah, I'm on board with that. Not in a million years. Let's give Watson a shot? I agree to a point but he's a clone of Fisher. Big kid, hard working two way player with a good shot. Sound familiar? Even if we did give Watson a shot, where's he going to play? Fourth line? That's not giving someone a shot, that's killing any shot the kid has at being anything.

The parts are there except for top line talent. That's the dilemma. How do we add great pieces with the parts we have? Honestly, the only way it happens is if we trade Weber or Jones and Weber will get more in a trade at this point. You trade Weber for an elite young center. That's step number 1. You build a line around that center with Forsberg and depending on the type of center you get, you put a banger or playmaker on that line with them. You move Smith or Wilson back to center to play the second line, play the other one at wing and give them a banger type on the wing as well. Beck and Hornqvist can fill both those roles pretty well and pick up garbage goals in the process. Watson is your third line center, a good two way player with some offensive output. Bourque on one side, maybe Stalberg on the other. Spaling is your fourth line center. Keep Nystrom on one wing and Scissons as his other?

This leaves Fisher, Legwand, Cullen, Gaustad and Hendricks as pieces that can be moved. You can probably land a few firsts and seconds for all of them and all of a sudden a rebuild is a lot more palatable. You have a top 4 of Jones, Josi, Klein and Ekholm. Ellis and Bartley can fill in on the third pairing. We also have other forwards coming up through the ranks in Aberg, Salomaki, Leipsic and Vesey. First and foremost we need top line talent and if it means moving Weber, do it.

 

[BigFatCat999]

I just got the Columbia so I haven't had Mexican yet....


I leaning more and more towards telling Poile and Trotz their services are no longer required, wish them the best in their future endeavors, yada yada.

The same voice gets stale year after year.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

im 100% behind trading weber. he just isn't worth the money or the "C"

 

[AEM6729]

This thread is funny…when Poile made all those signings over the summer, a bunch of us (myself included) thought it only made sense if a big trade was in the works. I was sure that Poile had some kind of master plan wherein signing a bunch of forwards that don't address our real needs would make sense.

Four months later, there have been no moves, and it appears that signing all those guys was just pointless. There was no master plan.