Speculation: The Coaching Thread

[DomiToDuclair]

Whether Tippett stays or not, I want the scheme to change. The team is way more fun to watch when they give up a bunch of goals early. He let's them play at that point because he has no choice. Maybe if he'd develop a more offensive approach, we'd actually get some leads early and make the other team play catch up.

I don't like our PP or our tendency to play the majority of the game in our own end. I think next year when the next wave of skilled players hit the roster, Tippett will have a hard time holding them back. Just like he has no choice but to play the young guys this year, he may have to change his approach next year because the talent will scream change. Keeping my fingers crossed anyway.

My biggest problem with this is that even if that is the case and he is forced to, he will still play Chipchura with Domi over Hanzal and give people like Dalhbeck 10min of ice time.

 

[Plub]

Did someone really say in this thread that OEL played sheltered minutes? Seriously?

 

[CC96]

Did someone really day in this thread that OEL played sheltered minutes? Seriously?

This thread is starting to give me a brain aneurysm.

 

[Sinurgy]

This thread is starting to give me a brain aneurysm.

Considering you seem to be under the impression that this roster is under performing, you may have already had one.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Did someone really say in this thread that OEL played sheltered minutes? Seriously?

Wasn't specifically referring to OEL as one with sheltered minutes, but players like Stone and Murphy may have seen sheltered minutes in the past. All three are being asked to take on more responsibility (OEL manning PP unit w/o Yandle, Stone and Murphy basically becoming our de facto top 2 RHD).

Agreed, this thread is mind-numbing to that extent.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Talking about the Coyotes woes doesn't make sense for now seeing what the Cardinals have just accomplished. Let's chill out from this topic and enjoy the moment of the Cardinals winning the division.

 

[Sinurgy]

Talking about the Coyotes woes doesn't make sense for now seeing what the Cardinals have just accomplished. Let's chill out from this topic and enjoy the moment of the Cardinals winning the division.

That's what the Cardinals win their division thread is for...a thread you created. This thread is for perceived, real or otherwise, problems with coaching.

 

[Jakey53]

Are you watching the games?

Are we not literally one game removed from an 8 game stretch, where we gave up 5 goals, every single game, with the only exception being a game where the opposition hit 6 posts?

Are we not literally one game removed from giving up 7 goals to the worst team in the league, after having 5 days off to rest, and prepare?

Where exactly did you have the Coyotes finishing this year?
We all know this is a rebuilding year, and I have and probably others said this is going to be a roller coaster season with stretches of loses and stretches of head scratching wins. We aren't a cup contender where a seven game losing streak should never happen. You have to look at the long term picture. Patience is key here.

 

[Jakey53]

No. How is that relevant? Why would anyone want to get rid of a coach that makes your job really cushy? Being loved by your players is not a prerequisite for being an effective coach. It can actually hurt. The difference between Andy Murray and Dave Tippett is that Dave went to a team with zero expectations.

It's pretty clear, from the play on the ice, that they don't respond to his input the way they once did. Practice and rest don't seem to make any difference. There's no adjustments. Players are regressing. You're welcome to believe there's zero case for getting a new voice in the room, but that's not what's going on.

Where did you have the Coyotes finishing this year?
How are the players regressing?

Can't wait for these answers.

 

[Jakey53]

Maybe we should take a moment to understand just what a players coach is, to avoid further confusion.

http://emuss.blogspot.com/2009/02/defintion-of-players-coach.html

Nice. I guess XX is right. We have a players coach in DT.

 

[Jakey53]

Don't worry, XX is confused enough as is. This thread was meant to spark a thought that he knows Tippett is to blame for everything, but the reality is that it is a combination of multiple things. At times, it could be Tippett. But he wants the easy answer and solution, when that's not possible at this time.

You think?

XX thinks he knows everything Coyotes, from ownership and their financials, FO personal, GM, coach, players. etc.

I really don't see why blame is thrown around at this time. This is a rebuild, expect 3-5 yrs. of this

 

[Jakey53]

They are playing like a team in transition. We added youth, which up to last year, Tippett would have never played. He is, so your theories on Tippett being too stubborn to change are debunked right there.

According to the theory of posters on this forum, when we have a better offensive team, we should be better defensively. That is not happening. Maybe theory doesn't work in this scenario and why I have always said, "Good offense does not lead to good defense. But good defense can lead to good offense." But again, we are a team in transition. Tippett's system may actually take our strengths and use them as best as possible. It is still up to the players to actually make the play though. Maybe against team X, that play gets made. Maybe against teams A, B, C, and D, that play doesn't get made. Should the coach bear that when th player may be at fault?

I would be lying if I said I was thrilled with the way that we are playing, but I do think that we are ahead of the curve in the rebuild, and the results on ice, while not perfect, are promising. Even if they weren't terribly promising, I would still not recommend a complete change of the guard, b/c you also need to get a gauge of where our performance, team-wise and individually, is at, and where we need it to get to. A change of guard can start that process over at a critical time. Short term success is what we are trying to avoid and long term success is the goal.

Yes, I agree. Your last sentence hit the nail on the head, but reading most anti DT posters, they are looking at the short term.

 

[Jakey53]

Don Maloney gave Dave Tippett no choice but to play them. Their play on the ice has forced Tippett to play them. They are often times the only thing going for the Coyotes. You should be embarrassed that you consider this a mark in your (or rather, Tippett's) favor. Even so, DT hasn't risen above playing the kids with centers like Chipchura, and he refuses to keep Domi - Hanzal - Duclair together. There's valid complaints to be had.



Moving the puck forward is a function of offense. This team often fails to do that for alarmingly long stretches at times. Establishing and maintaining possession past the redline is a function of offense. This teams also fails at doing that, save for winning faceoffs.

For a defensive coach, Dave Tippett isn't getting very good results. Only the Flames allow more goals per game. 2nd worst this year. Third worst last year. 13th worst the year before. 16th worst the year before that. 5th best the year before that. That's called regression. The Coyotes are now allowing more goals per game than Gretzky's final year. For someone that's supposedly a master defensive coach and great at adjusting, that's a pretty regular and alarming slide.

Why do you always go back four or five years?

We all know, or I guess most of us do that the Coyotes were in survival mode in those years. Last year was the first year of somewhat stable ownership and the franchise as a whole has made substantial strides. We are rebuilding, we still do not have the talent of most teams so this will take time. The next few years should be exciting times for the team and fans.

 

[Jakey53]

Your posts have also devolved that way to me, too.

The reason is that you continually contradict yourself.

First it was that we should have vetted into Ribeiro more and b/c this is our GM and they are getting paid to do so, they should have. Well, they did, and if you were the GM, you would have signed Ribeiro too, as evidenced that you showed no issues to signing him in the thread from two years ago.

Next, it is about players regressing. Some, you can expect to regress, such as Doan and other veterans. I know that you are specifically referring to OEL, Stone, and Murphy - but remember that these players are taking on more responsibility. Before, it may have been easier to hide their mistakes by giving them sheltered minutes.

Then it dealt with record and playoffs - saying that I completely miss the point by focusing on record. We are going to have wins that we don't deserve and losses that we don't deserve. It is hard to be competitive each and every night/shift/second on the ice. We could lose 6-0, and that is the collective result of 2 bad minutes of ice time. So for 58 minutes we played perfect hockey, but you would probably be screaming and crying over it.

Finally, coaches don't lose a room overnight, unless the coach said that he slept with all of the players' wives on the last road trip.

Can we just please lock and remove this thread, b/c it is not getting anywhere? The people that don't like Tippett as our coach will repeat everything that they have said as problems with this team. The people that appreciate Tippett as a coach will fire back b/c they know that a team in transition doesn't just change things overnight and there are going to be growing pains through it all.

Yup. Like I mentioned earlier, your wasting your time.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Yes, I agree. Your last sentence hit the nail on the head, but reading most anti DT posters, they are looking at the short term.

And again you're not seeing that those same posters you're referring to as Anti-Tippett have been objective from the moment Tippett 1st came to this team. Tippett and Maloney wouldn't have been dragged through the mud if the 2 of them have been able to build off the 2012 WCF quite well. They set the bar high and are failing to reach it.

 

[Jakey53]

And again you're not seeing that those same posters you're referring to as Anti-Tippett have been objective from the moment Tippett 1st came to this team. Tippett and Maloney wouldn't have been dragged through the mud if the 2 of them have been able to build off the 2012 WCF quite well. They set the bar high and are failing to reach it.

I think your wrong. I think all were very happy when DT was hired, not sure about DM though.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

I think your wrong.

You can think I'm wrong all you want but the truth is I'm right.

 

[BUX7PHX]

All I can say is that there has been only one season where we have not been competitive throughout and in the race for a playoff spot (last year).

Yes, we had some bad performances intermingled in 2012-14 seasons. Same as in 2009-10. We lost our first home game to Columbus 2-0. We were shut out 4-0 by a 62 point Oiler team. But b/c that was then, things like that get buried. The difference between those respectful teams is that we had a little more toughness, a little more smarts, and a little more savvy - what you would expect from a veteran team. That is how the 09-10 version had a season-high 3 game losing streak, whereas a less savvy team will have a 5 or 6 game losing streak. Or vice-versa - that team also had a 9 game winning streak. A less savvy team may have seen that stop at 5 games.

It is all a part of the process.

Tip may have set the bar high, but with the exception of last year, there has been very little underachieving. Maybe the Ribeiro season, as the expectations went sky high, but we were handling an interesting situation there. One thing about having the bar high - typically there is only one direction to go, so the fact that we did go in that direction is not as deeply troubling for me as it may be for others.

 

[Jakey53]

Considering you seem to be under the impression that this roster is under performing, you may have already had one.

That explains a lot of things.

 

[Matias Maccete]

This has become a giant uh huh, nuh uh thread.

 

[Jakey53]

You can think I'm wrong all you want but the truth is I'm right.

Prove it. Your thinking is total assumption.

 

[BUX7PHX]

This has become a giant uh huh, nuh uh thread.

Which is why I would like to see this thread locked and put in a dumpster fire.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Why do you always go back four or five years?

Context is helpful in discussions like this one.

We all know, or I guess most of us do that the Coyotes were in survival mode in those years. Last year was the first year of somewhat stable ownership and the franchise as a whole has made substantial strides. We are rebuilding, we still do not have the talent of most teams so this will take time. The next few years should be exciting times for the team and fans.

The Coyotes are still in survival mode. The ownership is anything but stable - if you have kept up with the fluctuating share percentages, the whole Barroway deal, and especially the audit Glendale performed on the agreement between IceArizona and the team, then you know how precarious of a situation our franchise is in... and this is not even mentioning the fact that nobody knows where the team will be playing after next season.

You are correct in saying that we have a lot of offensive potential in our system, which is the first time I think I've ever been able to say that since I've been a fan. That does not mean that there are not opportunities to improve our present state, and it especially does not mean that the franchise operations are exempt from scrutiny and accountability as things progress (or don't).

Our worst enemy - whether you're a glass half-full or glass half-empty person - is ostrich mode. Being aware of the whole picture is valuable.

 

[kihekah19*]

Considering you seem to be under the impression that this roster is under performing, you may have already had one.

Now THAT'S PUKING FUNNY!

 

[kihekah19*]

Our worst enemy - whether you're a glass half-full or glass half-empty person - is ostrich mode. Being aware of the whole picture is valuable.

Well, there's ostrich mode, instant gratification mode and in between which is intelligence mode.