The Carey Price Discussion Thread (Part 6)

[Agnostic]

I would suggest you do what most people do and watch the game instead of looking up the boxscore.

The fact that you're essentially refusing to name who you think is better than Price shows that you know you don't have a leg to stand on.

Same thing can be said about Quick, Halak, Crawford, Hiller.. I dunno why you like to use stats from a shortened season to make you evaluation on Price.

Still waiting for your list of the 15 goalies that are better than Price.

Why don't you take the list of 34 goaltenders that were better than Price last year, select 15 at random, and try to make the argument that Price was better .

Without selectively picking and choosing the games that you personally would like to remove, leaving out situations that don't fit your argument (ES, PK), and making subjective arguments about quality-of-defense.

It's easy to pick apart a list when you make up your own rules of analysis. You guys are rivaling Lafleurs Guy on the ridiculous scale.

 

[MDN]

Yes really. Check out nhl.com ... you might learn a lot there.

lol...

 

[Habz2006]

fleury has a cup, I wouldn't trade Price for him. Emery played 18 games last year and had 1 loss, would you trade Price for him?

I didn't know cups are won solely by goalies. Niemi and Crawford have cups playing for the best team in the nhl the years they won it.

What`s even funnier is that IF Price were to ever win a cup with the habs ... you price fan boys would be ready to call him the best thing that happened to the habs since patrick roy ... because you know ... if price WINS it`s because of him but if he loses it`s everyone else`s fault ...

 

[Andy]

Well why don`t you comment on my last point .... you make it seem like any goalie could have been in nets those years and won the cup. I don`t agree with that at all.

Just because I don't think Fleury, Niemi and Crawford are better than Price does not mean they are good as Budaj or an AHL goalies.

To say that teams win cups because other factors outside of goalkeeping doesn't mean goalkeeping plays no role in a playoff run.

Also, just food for thought, the Flyers almost won the cup with Michael Leighton. That being said, goalies play a role, but it's fairly rare that teams win the cup only because of their goal keeper.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

And I'll say that the factor you are solely using Save% to say that Price wasn't so bad, says it all about Price lovers. In the end, it has to be in between. Which at one point, until proven otherwise, says that Price isn't a bad goalie. FAR FROM IT. But he's not the top 5 goalie that some still to this day wants to think he is. For me he's around #10-15. Which still means I'd take him over 15-20 guys out there. That's good. Just not elite. Not yet. His potential is. Not the actual results.

But we have NHL players and coaches who for the past few years have named him a top five goalie. It's not like it's totally without foundation.

Pretty tough to solely use the save% when people always totally discredit goalies that end up playing for a better team. 'Cause this is where their analysis stop...they play for a better team. Well I've seen Crawford, Quick, Lundqvist, Rask, Howard and Co SAVE those superior teams REALLY often. They are amongst the reasons why those teams are so superior as a whole or defensively. But somehow, when we solely look at stats....let's just pretend that those goalies don't exist and that if those teams would just have 6 players on the ice instead of a goalie, that they'd win anyway.

And then, while Price is being "protected" based on how poor our D's are....no other goalies in this league is being "protected" the same way. If it goes for Price, it has to go for Dubnyk and Co....

Well we've seen what a great team can do for a guy like Brian Elliot. It makes a difference. As for numbers... again, tough to base it solely on this for goalies because again 1. The stats aren't cumulative and 2. Team D can have a major impact.

I think Andy's shown that the guy has for the past three years been really good on mostly mediocre to bad teams.

And I've seen your posts, I know you agree with me on our D.

Top five? Personally I think so. I only have a couple of others who I'd take over him. But if somebody has him top ten or even top fifteen that's fine. The difference between goalies now isn't as wide as it used to be. But he's at the very least good.

As for us advancing deep in the playoffs.... that's not going to happen until we've got a team built for it. I don't care who's in our nets. I'd say this if it was Lundqvist or anybody else. Bad D, too small upfront, don't screen the goalies on the other side... those are the problems that need fixing. Fix that and we'll advance. Otherwise we're looking at maybe winning a round or at the most two.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I disagree with Niemi and Crawford. The only season Niemi and Crawford had superior stats than Price was last season despite playing for superior teams. Crawford is still relatively unproven.

Also, not sure I would put Backstrom above Price either. I'd take Price over him for sure. Same with Brodeur, he's almost finished. Rinne, Quick, Lundqvist, Rask, Howard, Anderson, yeah, I would put them ahead, but outside Lundqvist and post-season quick, none are in another league that Price isn't in.

Crawford and Niemi have both been better in the playoffs and it has nothing to do with the team in front of them.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Crawford and Niemi have both been better in the playoffs and it has nothing to do with the team in front of them.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

But we have NHL players and coaches who for the past few years have named him a top five goalie. It's not like it's totally without foundation.

Players and coaches say a lot of things.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Is this where you trash the entire team to prop up Price?

 

[Habz2006]

Crawford and Niemi have both been better in the playoffs and it has nothing to do with the team in front of them.

That is a great point! We haven`t even started discussing Price`s performance in the playoffs ... you know these incredible stats :

9 W - 17L - 905 sv % and a 2.90 GAA

but wait ... that`s not Price`s fault ...

 

[Price My Man Crush]

That is a great point! We haven`t even started discussing Price`s performance in the playoffs ... you know these incredible stats :

9 W - 17L - 905 sv % and a 2.90 GAA

but wait ... that`s not Price`s fault ...

The only time it was Price's fault was back in 2008. He did sucked. He was so freaking bad, everybody knows this.

But to blame him for the playoffs of 2009, 2010, 2011 or last year doesn't make sense.

 

[Sorinth]

In no particular order.....

Rinne
Backstrom
Quick
Lunqvist
Crawford
Niemi
Rask
Howard
Anderson
Bobrovski

Backstrom hasn't done anything for 5 years now, Niemi hasn't done much either, and Anderson & Bobrovski are pure wild cards, maybe they'll repeat but they could easily go back to their career average where they've been distinctly average.

It's pretty clear case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

That is a great point! We haven`t even started discussing Price`s performance in the playoffs ... you know these incredible stats :

9 W - 17L - 905 sv % and a 2.90 GAA

but wait ... that`s not Price`s fault ...

I'm just going to sit back and watch as all the excuses roll in.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

The only time it was Price's fault was back in 2008. He did sucked. He was so freaking bad, everybody knows this.

But to blame him for the playoffs of 2009, 2010, 2011 or last year doesn't make sense.

He does not have a good playoff resume. Everybody and their mother know that Price's playoff performances have been lackluster.

 

[Andy]

Cool, let's use 26 playoff games, 15 of which came 5 years go, and 8 regular seasons to say Price has been crap over the last 3 seasons.

Until Emelin got hurt, 920SV% over 167 games. I'll stick with that instead of the 11 playoff games since the same time, which he has a .929 SV% btw

 

[Habz2006]

Backstrom hasn't done anything for 5 years now, Niemi hasn't done much either, and Anderson & Bobrovski are pure wild cards, maybe they'll repeat but they could easily go back to their career average where they've been distinctly average.

It's pretty clear case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence.

Backstrom`s numbers over the last 5 years are better, go take a look. Niemi has only won a cup .. that is all .... and you are going to sit there and say anderson is a wild card ... I think Anderson is the anti price ... goalie that actually wins games for his team on his own and never gets recognition ... his name isn`t sexy enough i guess ...he`s not a through-bred. Let`s also not forget about Bobrovski .. he only won a Vezina .... Price has that too right

 

[Sorinth]

Yes really. Check out nhl.com ... you might learn a lot there.

You might learn more if you watched the games instead of looking up stats.

Why don't you take the list of 34 goaltenders that were better than Price last year, select 15 at random, and try to make the argument that Price was better .

Without selectively picking and choosing the games that you personally would like to remove, leaving out situations that don't fit your argument (ES, PK), and making subjective arguments about quality-of-defense.

It's easy to pick apart a list when you make up your own rules of analysis. You guys are rivaling Lafleurs Guy on the ridiculous scale.

Now there are 34 goalies that were better than Price last year. If we want to judge a player solely on stats, then why not judge him on Ws. It is afterall a goalie stat and Price was 9th last year.

 

[Price My Man Crush]

Backstrom`s numbers over the last 5 years are better, go take a look. Niemi has only won a cup .. that is all .... and you are going to sit there and say anderson is a wild card ... I think Anderson is the anti price ... goalie that actually wins games for his team on his own and never gets recognition ... his name isn`t sexy enough i guess ...he`s not a through-bred. Let`s also not forget about Bobrovski .. he only won a Vezina .... Price has that too right

And what Backstrom has done in Minnesota? Please, tell me. I really want to know.

Minnesota has been awful for the last few years.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

No one can deny that Price led the Habs to a division title last season and a conference title not long ago. I'd give him every opportunity to come through again, so I ignore the open-mouthed carp who constantly snap at him.

 

[CanadienShark]

If he lets in more than 2 goals, he sucks.
If he loses, he sucks. Even if its 1-0, since the other goalie didn't allowed any goal.
If he let's in a breakaway goal, he sucks, top paid goalie should make always make those key save.
If he wins with under 25 saves, he deserves no credit.
If he wins against a non-playoffs team, he deserves no credit.
If he plays well and get a 30 shots+ shutout. Well, that's his job anyways, he's getting paid 6.5M$ to do so.

So true

You just gave Agnostic some good material there.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Cool, let's use 26 playoff games, 15 of which came 5 years go, and 8 regular seasons to say Price has been crap over the last 3 seasons.

Until Emelin got hurt, 920SV% over 167 games. I'll stick with that instead of the 11 playoff games since the same time, which he has a .929 SV% btw

I'm only using the numbers that are available. You can't pick and choose which stats you want to include. Talk about dishonest

 

[CanadienShark]

No one questions his intent or talent to be a star goalie in this league ... but it takes more than just intent/talent to be a franchise goalie. Carey Price since day 1 has been labelled as our number 1 and he hasn't proved he is anything out of the ordinary. He is usually on the bottom end of the goalie leaders each year AND what bugs me even more is his performances in the playoffs .. we need him to win us a game on his own from time to time .... when do you ever see that from Price ? If the habs have a bad game defensively or as a whole and price loses it's okay to say the team played bad in front of him BUT sometimes the goalie needs to put in a crazy performance to pull his team out of it and STEAL a win ... Price NEVER does that.

Why don't you go take a look at Craig Anderson's playoff performance last year OR (hate to bring this up again) Halak's performance for MTL years back ? THAT is what we need from him .. especially with the fact that he is paid as a top 5 goalie in the league.

Did you watch the Habs in 11-12? That's EXACTLY what he did, but wasn't given credit because the team was awful.

 

[JohnLennon]

In no particular order.....

Rinne
Backstrom
Quick
Lunqvist
Crawford
Niemi
Rask
Howard
Anderson
Bobrovski

I hate using numbers to evaluate players, but I feel like this is the only way to explain this to you.

Bobrovski has a promising future ahead of him, but the kid hasn't even played a full season in the NHL as a starter yet. Why on Earth would you rank Bobrovski ahead of Price at this point in time? He only has two seasons with a SV% above .910, while Carey Price has four! Price has played almost double the amount of seasons as Bobrovski and is only one year older. Makes absolutely no sense.

And Backstrom? The guy has almost the exact same numbers as Price and he's almost TEN YEARS OLDER! Why on Earth would you ever rank him above Price? Some of these suggestions are ridiculous.

There are more on your list that are entirely debatable as well, but I think you get the point. Price may not be a top 3 goalie at this point in time, but he is certainly among the ten best goalies in the league.

 

[CanadienShark]

Last year Montreal allowed the 5th fewest shots against. Only NJ, St Louis, Chicago & LA allowed fewer shots yet our elite goalie was 32nd in GAA and 37th in Sv%. among goalies who played double digit games.

What does that say about shot quality? Oh wait, nothing.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Backstrom hasn't done anything for 5 years now, Niemi hasn't done much either, and Anderson & Bobrovski are pure wild cards, maybe they'll repeat but they could easily go back to their career average where they've been distinctly average.

It's pretty clear case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence.

I'm the guy who first brought up the 15-20 number. IMO it's less of a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence, and more that everyone's grass is brown outside of a few select lush green lawns. We're paying Carey to be the greener grass, and for now he's been the same shade of brown as a big group of goalies, fluctuating year over year and not being consistently elite. It's not that I believe there's a concrete list of 14 goalies that are better than Price, but that his floor is in the 15-20 and he's being paid to have a floor in the top 5.

As for Anderson and Bobrovski, Price had one elite season and the rest of his career hasn't been spectacular either, so we can say the same thing about him. Note that I'm not ragging on Price, I'm saying that so far he belongs in the group that's a tier below elite. The margin between different goalies these days is so slight that week by week the picture can change, but Price is being paid and treated like an elite tender and he hasn't been that way since 2010-11.