Post-Game Talk: The Canucks: Where wins are made up, and defense doesn’t matter

[SeawaterOnIce]

Holtby is another example of poor pro scouting.

Elite stats dropped off a cliff after the 2017 season. Was ok for a bit but his numbers last season just tanked.

No idea how he had leverage to get a 2x4.8mil deal.

 

[Canucker]

We weren't quite THIS bad under Markstrom but we weren't far off.

It was a theme over and over again last year that we were badly outchanced and outshot and Markstrom and a hot PP won us the game.

The goalies on last years hapless last-place 17-54 Red Wings team were able to put a .895 on the board, and there's no way our team defense is worse than that team's.

Again, I'm not arguing that they haven't been put in a very poor situation ... but they also haven't played very well, either, outside of a couple games from Demko.

Are we sure? lol...I'm not sure I've ever seen a Canucks defense play this poorly and I was around for the Doug Halward/Michel Petit days...lol...the amount of turnovers and positional errors is mind boggling...I have to think we really aren't as bad as we've been playing, but there is something rotten in that dressing room right now that is either causing a major case of the yips, or Green has lost the room.

 

[MS]

Holtby is another example of poor pro scouting.

Elite stats dropped off a cliff after the 2017 season. Was ok for a bit but his numbers last season just tanked.

No idea how he had leverage to get a 2x4.8mil deal.

He was one of the worst goalies in the league last year. But as usual, Jimbo's pro scouting is stuck in 3 years ago.

The whole point of dropping from Markstrom to Demko should have been to save money on the goalie position in the short term, to invest in keeping Tanev/Toffoli and getting through the summer 2021 cap crunch. Instead they spent right up to what they were spending on goaltending before.

And that 2nd year is the real killer. If it was 1 year, you could probably excuse it. People were celebrating it at the time because of the expansion draft or some nonsense but committing $5 million to a backup for 21-22 given our current situation was absolute madness.

 

[MS]

Are we sure? lol...I'm not sure I've ever seen a Canucks defense play this poorly and I was around for the Doug Halward/Michel Petit days...lol...the amount of turnovers and positional errors is mind boggling...I have to think we really aren't as bad as we've been playing, but there is something rotten in that dressing room right now that is either causing a major case of the yips, or Green has lost the room.

It's very bad, but it isn't somehow worse than what Ottawa/Detroit were throwing out there last year.

 

[Canucker]

The Miller effort was poor but not as poor as Holtby’s clearance.

Yeah, a lot of people are railing on Miller and Chatfield....and rightfully so...but Holtby's "clearing" was pretty pathetic...he should be upset at himself as much as anyone else.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Yeah, a lot of people are railing on Miller and Chatfield....and rightfully so...but Holtby's "clearing" was pretty pathetic...he should be upset at himself as much as anyone else.

True. Miller blew his check, but Holtby basically threw a pizza up the wall without having his head up to see if it was clear.

 

[M2Beezy]

What goal did Holtby stare down Miller? I missed the third so guessing then, any vids?

 

[Johnny Canucker]

That's a little over the top. You get a GM in here that can inspire and get the players to believe again and it can happen.

You think once our top players hit FA all things (money) being equal they will re sign here? Lol.

no chance. Anaheim, LA it’s nice and warm and nobody knows you, maybe NYR or Islanders to live in the big Apple. No reason for them to want to stay on a perennial sinking ship.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

True. Miller blew his check, but Holtby basically threw a pizza up the wall without having his head up to see if it was clear.

What’s getting lost in all this is why JTM was covering for Chatterfeld who was just gliding back leisurely. Last I checked he was a defensman right?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

You think once our top players hit FA all things (money) being equal they will re sign here? Lol.

no chance. Anaheim, LA it’s nice and warm and nobody knows you, maybe NYR or Islanders to live in the big Apple. No reason for them to want to stay on a perennial sinking ship.

yup. where do karlsson and stone play now? doesn’t even have to get to free agemcy

 

[Canucker]

What’s getting lost in all this is why JTM was covering for Chatterfeld who was just gliding back leisurely. Last I checked he was a defensman right?

Yeah, but if you are going to cover for him....cover for him. Chatfield was horrific last night, but...forwards can't just bail on coverages if the defenseman pinches....and the goalie can't cough up pizzas either. Plenty of fingers to point on that play.

 

[sting101]

Yes lets make this about Markstrom??

How about 9 of 15 on the road and more GP than any team?
How about breaking up 2 good d pairs and adding Benn and Chatfield in place of Tanev and Stecher while improving Myers pair and increasing his role?
How about our top line that used to drive possession is now a complete tire fire in our own end and on the back check. Jay f---ing Beagle has as many HDSC for as any of our top line players?
How about Gaudette and Virtanen being unplayable?

This team is burnt out, confused, undermanned and pouting.

Green is not helping but he's pissed too. He refused to talk about the departed but did say "make no mistake this is not the same team as last year".....that's a pretty telling comment about his roster. In saying that.... him and Baumer are doing a terrible job managing the players and combinations.

Miller needs to wake up and stop being a baby.

Bo needs to be a good captain and bring this team together they're fractured.

 

[4Twenty]

Nobody is making this all about markstrom.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

Chatfield, while a good kid and gives an honest effort, does not have the talent to play at the NHL level.

It's questionable whether he had it in Utica the past 2 seasons.

 

[Dab]

Is it over the top? Yes Fredo is willing to spend money (that he inherited); but what decent GM will be willing to work with him knowing how he likes to poke his head into hockey operations? You get guys with no backbone like Jethro Bodine. Thus, firing Jethro Bodine might even make the problem worse if he’s replaced by the likes of Weisbrod.

Cmon man, there might be a handful of sports franchise owners that don’t “poke their head in”. Good GMs and presidents and managers in general know how to handle an owner. Period.

 

[VanJack]

He was one of the worst goalies in the league last year. But as usual, Jimbo's pro scouting is stuck in 3 years ago.

The whole point of dropping from Markstrom to Demko should have been to save money on the goalie position in the short term, to invest in keeping Tanev/Toffoli and getting through the summer 2021 cap crunch. Instead they spent right up to what they were spending on goaltending before.

And that 2nd year is the real killer. If it was 1 year, you could probably excuse it. People were celebrating it at the time because of the expansion draft or some nonsense but committing $5 million to a backup for 21-22 given our current situation was absolute madness.

Anyone blaming Holtby and Demko for this current gong-show needs a new prescription for contact lenses. The score could easily have been 8-1 last night given the number of clear-cut chances the Leafs had.

Benning gets lots of brickbats for some of the position players he's signed, but Holtby made a lot of sense....a veteran goalie, without any trade protection and only signed for two seasons. Once Markstrom left, he was the next best UFA goalie out there.

The underlying stats in these last two games with the Leafs tell the story. Outshot by a 2-1 margin, quality scoring chances given up at a 3-1 margin. Canucks are the most penalized teams in the league for the simple reason they're chasing the play all night, every night.

This is a bad hockey team right now folks. And the goalies are left flapping in the breeze every game.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Team is inverted, and in a death spiral right now.

I've seen Canuck teams go on losing streaks before but nothing like this..AV had an 8 game losing streak, but not to the extent of getting blown out every single game.

Even if Markstrom was on the team, I don't think that he would have saved them this season..The giveaways and breakdowns throughout the entire team ,are outrageously too numerous to be real.

I dont see this stopping until they get back to Van..and refocus.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Yes lets make this about Markstrom??

How about 9 of 15 on the road and more GP than any team?
How about breaking up 2 good d pairs and adding Benn and Chatfield in place of Tanev and Stecher while improving Myers pair and increasing his role?
How about our top line that used to drive possession is now a complete tire fire in our own end and on the back check. Jay f---ing Beagle has as many HDSC for as any of our top line players?
How about Gaudette and Virtanen being unplayable?

This team is burnt out, confused, undermanned and pouting.

Green is not helping but he's pissed too. He refused to talk about the departed but did say "make no mistake this is not the same team as last year".....that's a pretty telling comment about his roster. In saying that.... him and Baumer are doing a terrible job managing the players and combinations.

Miller needs to wake up and stop being a baby.

Bo needs to be a good captain and bring this team together they're fractured.

Pretty much. I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many games crammed in. It’s not just every other night... it’s a lot more than every other night. Yes it will catch up to other teams as well. We’ll see how they handle it. But it would be a lot easier to handle if the team was feeling good about their game. Right now they are likely hating playing and they are getting zero breaks.

Green looks lost. Miller is pouting. Petey has forgotten how to play. They look like an immature team. But then again, I remind myself they are immature. And this is just the process of a young team figuring it out. Petey is not going to suck forever, neither is Hughes.

I don’t buy the loss of Marky and Tanev as an excuse. Both were here last November when this team looked incapable of winning. And that was a long streak as well. I do think that certain parts of the leadership have handled it poorly though. Miller in particular. Even Horvat’s comments about it being ‘disappointing’ were, well, disappointing. The captain’s job is to integrate the new guys and get the team excited about them. Yet here you have Holtby talking last night about the team not being on the same page.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Anyone blaming Holtby and Demko for this current gong-show needs a new prescription for contact lenses. The score could easily have been 8-1 last night given the number of clear-cut chances the Leafs had.

Benning gets lots of brickbats for some of the position players he's signed, but Holtby made a lot of sense....a veteran goalie, without any trade protection and only signed for two seasons. Once Markstrom left, he was the next best UFA goalie out there.

The underlying stats in these last two games with the Leafs tell the story. Outshot by a 2-1 margin, quality scoring chances given up at a 3-1 margin. Canucks are the most penalized teams in the league for the simple reason they're chasing the play all night, every night.

This is a bad hockey team right now folks. And the goalies are left flapping in the breeze every game.

Agreed, anybody focusing on blaming the goalies, is out to lunch.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Chatfield, while a good kid and gives an honest effort, does not have the talent to play at the NHL level.

It's questionable whether he had it in Utica the past 2 seasons.

Poor Edler, who looks like age is catching up to him, is saddled with guy who realistically, is not an NHL player.

 

[4Twenty]

Nobody is focusing on blaming the goalies.

Holtby being a bad use of precious cap space is not blaming him.

$4.3m went a long ways in filling out rosters this past offseason.

Canucks pay more this season than last for goaltending. It’s the same situation as signing Miller for $18mill. At least it’s only two years.

 

[I am toxic]

Anyone who thinks that we are getting the kind of wins on the back of a goalie like we did with Marky the past two seasons is out to lunch.

Anyone who thinks average goaltending - along with atrocious team construction including the brutal contracts signed over the past 3 years, the lack of a coherent system, player's quitting on management, - is not part of the problem is out to lunch.

Why, I wouldn't be surprised to see such out to lunch takes also go on about how our GM was ranked 6th by pundits, that our prospect pool is also ranked 6th by other pundits, and that our team is in the best position to end Canada's Cup drought. Whew, talk about out to lunch.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Nobody is underestimating Markys playing, there's no question he bailed the team out last year..but the entire team in front of him wasn't dead last defensively.
Nobody is arguing the team has been handcuffed by earlier UFA signings..and we could take a step back this season.
Are you insinuating the players are throwing the games because of the GM..?
At the the end of last season 93% of HFCanucks voted the season a success.

 

[valkynax]

Anyone who thinks that we are getting the kind of wins on the back of a goalie like we did with Marky the past two seasons is out to lunch.

Anyone who thinks average goaltending - along with atrocious team construction including the brutal contracts signed over the past 3 years, the lack of a coherent system, player's quitting on management, - is not part of the problem is out to lunch.

Why, I wouldn't be surprised to see such out to lunch takes also go on about how our GM was ranked 6th by pundits, that our prospect pool is also ranked 6th by other pundits, and that our team is in the best position to end Canada's Cup drought. Whew, talk about out to lunch.

Today's Sunday so it's more likely to be brunch.

 

[Zippgunn]

Agree and disagree.

I agree that they haven't been 'terrible' and that they've been left out to dry by their teammates. And yes, you do feel a bit for them as good guys who are trying hard.

BUT

This is a bit of the old 'Dan Cloutier Justification' where bad goaltending is excused if the goalie isn't letting in absolutely terrible non-chances and all the goals were 'tough chances'. Good NHL goalies stop a majority of tough chances - and these guys haven't stopped enough. We're getting out of small sample sizes now and a .890 team save % isn't acceptable no matter how poor your defense is. Jacob Markstrom would not have a .890 save % behind this defense.

I disagree with you vehemently; Holtby STOPPED 4 breakaways the other night but you're saying that he needs to stop ALL of them as well as the multitude of 2 on 1's and clear cut shots from the slot. I count perhaps 4 not-great goals by these two this whole season. Marky would not have "saved" any of these recent games and I'm guessing his save % would be under .900 just like Demko and Holtby. You "feel a bit" for them? The Dan Cloutier comparison is a complete insult to these two; remember he has the worst save % of any NHL playoff goalies with as many starts as him. He was TERRIBLE. Your affection for Markstrom seems to have blinded you to how bad the skaters on this team are. There was no way JB was going to sign another "Loui" style contract with an aging goalie who has demonstrated that he is entering his "injury prone" years (and who has only been good for a couple of years after taking a decade to get there) so you should get over that. I feel that anybody who has watched these games in their entirety and who thinks the goaltending is to blame is beyond my help; they are blinded by either Benning-hate or Marky-love.