The Buffalo Sabres: Worst team since....?

SabresFan26

Registered User
May 28, 2003
10,362
2,075
Visit site
If "flaunting his wealth" means investing it in the Buffalo Sabres, then sure. Curse his black soul for spending money on the organization and Buffalo hockey both on and off the ice.

The team was stuck in no man's land when he bought the team. His mistake was not recognizing that and trying to win right away.

And now he has realized it and we have begun the correct process with Regier and Rolston's dismissals. Yes it would have been better had the rebuild begun around 2010. Even last year we had to have this season we are having now for 48 games and we could have had a gem in MacKinnon, Drouin or Barkov.
 

Sinter Klaas

Registered User
Aug 19, 2006
903
168
Making Lists
No way the team should be this bad with names like Miller, Erhoff, Hodgson, Ennis, Myers, and Moulson on the roster. Not saying that this is supreme talent, but there should be no conversation going on to historical ineptness with these names. Thanks Darcy!:handclap:
 

ottsabrefan

Registered User
May 19, 2011
1,382
399
Ottawa
We are currently holding a 1.7 goals for/game. The 1953-54 Hawks hold the record for fewest goals with 133 in 70 games (1.9/game)

While, we are on pace to score 6 more goals than them, I also found this link that shows that at this pace we will have the fewest goals/game since 1936!

http://mcubed.net/nhl/gllgfpg.shtml
 

JLewyB

Registered User
May 6, 2013
3,920
1,643
Pegulaville
We are currently holding a 1.7 goals for/game. The 1953-54 Hawks hold the record for fewest goals with 133 in 70 games (1.9/game)

While, we are on pace to score 6 more goals than them, I also found this link that shows that at this pace we will have the fewest goals/game since 1936!

http://mcubed.net/nhl/gllgfpg.shtml

It's stats like these that make me believe that we are the worst team to watch ever. Of course, I don't mind losing, tank you very much, and obviously I don't mind watching them win for conventional reasons so after the games I feel pretty good about everything.
 

Sabretooth

Registered User
May 14, 2013
3,104
646
Ohio
51 GF through 30 games for a season pace of 139.4.
Still on pace for a projected 16.4 wins.
Point pace is currently at a season high projection of 38.3 :shakehead

Its interesting, Nolan has now been coach for 11 games (games 20-30). The Sabres points pace has only changed from a projected 36.9 points through 20 games to 38.3 points through 30 games. So... minimal improvement that is probably not statistically significant. It may be meaningful that out projection actually stopped increasing after Nolan took over. Or it could be that it took 20 games before a meaningful projection could be made.

The Sabres were at a season high GF projection of 147.6 when nolan took over after 20 games, and now after 30 games, the Sabres goal projection has fallen to 139.4. The last 5 games, we have scored at an 82-game pace of only 114.8 if we played the whole season like those 5 games, a season low (that we also matched in games 6-10). The greatest 5-game GF rate occurred during games 16-20 (an 82-game pace of 180.4) - Nolan took over in game 20. Form your own conclusion/agendas.

GA is a different matter, thankfully. Today the sabres sit at a projected 82-game pace of 248.7 - not a season low, but trending downwards. In fact, the last 5 games, opponents have only scored at a projected pace of 196.8 if we played the whole season like those 5 games, which is a season low (and would be near the best in the league in goals against). The 5 games before that, the GA projected pace was 262.4, and the 5 before that (before Nolan took over) was a whopping 328.0 (a season high by far). So defensively, the Sabres were getting progressively worse under Rolston, but seem to be getting progressively better under Nolan.

Goal differential kind of wraps all this together and tells the whole story. Diff basically projects where you finish in the standings (relative to other teams, not absolutely). So, even if we're going to finish last by far, we can look for improvements in goal diff season projections, and in 5 game chunks. After 30 games, the sabres are currently projected to finish with a goal diff of -109.3. Not a season low, but moving in the right direction. The 5 games before Nolan took over, the sabres played at a 82-game goal differential projection of -147.6 if we played the whole season like those 5 games. In games 21-25, the sabres played at an 82-game diff projection of -131.2, and in 26-30, the diff projection during those games was a season best -82.0. In general terms, the sabres goal differential 82-game projection was getting progressively worse under Rolston, but is not getting progressively better under Nolan.

Based on the data, it appears as if Rolston was trying to open games up and play more end to end - the issue being that while that allowed us to score more, our opponents were scoring even easier against us as well. Nolan seems to be trying to tighten things up and play a close checking game. It seems to be killing our offense, yet generally is keeping games closer.

We're still the worst team in the league, probably the worst in the 3-pt era, and are likely to remain that way. But in terms of just evaluating the sabres and looking for indications that things are getting better, it appears as if we bottomed out around game 20 and there are indications of small improvements since. The direction seems to make sense. We know we don't have any big offensive threats, so developing the defensive side of the game hopefully allows for the team to be playing well defensively when we get the injection of offense in the next few drafts. Versus trying to run and gun... while exciting, we're not going to be outgunning anybody, and the players on the team now generally aren't going to be responsible for putting up huge point totals when the team is ready to contend. Our offensive injection we will hopefully get in the next couple drafts isn't going to do us much good if the team hasn't learned to be defensively responsible by then. If we continue to be a team that plays chunks of games where opponents are only on pace to score <200 GA/82, then I'd be pretty happy with that and content to wait for the offensive talent in the next few drafts.
 

slip

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 19, 2005
16,140
4,701
This team is a pig, and Nolan is just a different shade of lipstick.
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,697
7,928
In the Panderverse
It's not about Nolan changing the outcome dramatically. The talent isn't good enough for that. It's about not messing up the development any further under rolston.


Edit: After the December 10th OTT at BUF game, the old W-L-T points system would have BUF at 2-22-7 for 11 points after 31 games, projecting to 5-58-19 and 29 points after 82 games, or, in '74-75 80 game season projection, 5-57-18 for 28 points.
 
Last edited:

Namejs

Registered User
Dec 24, 2011
3,985
743
Oslo
51 GF through 30 games for a season pace of 139.4.
Still on pace for a projected 16.4 wins.
Point pace is currently at a season high projection of 38.3 :shakehead

Its interesting, Nolan has now been coach for 11 games (games 20-30). The Sabres points pace has only changed from a projected 36.9 points through 20 games to 38.3 points through 30 games. So... minimal improvement that is probably not statistically significant. It may be meaningful that out projection actually stopped increasing after Nolan took over. Or it could be that it took 20 games before a meaningful projection could be made.

The Sabres were at a season high GF projection of 147.6 when nolan took over after 20 games, and now after 30 games, the Sabres goal projection has fallen to 139.4. The last 5 games, we have scored at an 82-game pace of only 114.8 if we played the whole season like those 5 games, a season low (that we also matched in games 6-10). The greatest 5-game GF rate occurred during games 16-20 (an 82-game pace of 180.4) - Nolan took over in game 20. Form your own conclusion/agendas.

GA is a different matter, thankfully. Today the sabres sit at a projected 82-game pace of 248.7 - not a season low, but trending downwards. In fact, the last 5 games, opponents have only scored at a projected pace of 196.8 if we played the whole season like those 5 games, which is a season low (and would be near the best in the league in goals against). The 5 games before that, the GA projected pace was 262.4, and the 5 before that (before Nolan took over) was a whopping 328.0 (a season high by far). So defensively, the Sabres were getting progressively worse under Rolston, but seem to be getting progressively better under Nolan.

Goal differential kind of wraps all this together and tells the whole story. Diff basically projects where you finish in the standings (relative to other teams, not absolutely). So, even if we're going to finish last by far, we can look for improvements in goal diff season projections, and in 5 game chunks. After 30 games, the sabres are currently projected to finish with a goal diff of -109.3. Not a season low, but moving in the right direction. The 5 games before Nolan took over, the sabres played at a 82-game goal differential projection of -147.6 if we played the whole season like those 5 games. In games 21-25, the sabres played at an 82-game diff projection of -131.2, and in 26-30, the diff projection during those games was a season best -82.0. In general terms, the sabres goal differential 82-game projection was getting progressively worse under Rolston, but is not getting progressively better under Nolan.

Based on the data, it appears as if Rolston was trying to open games up and play more end to end - the issue being that while that allowed us to score more, our opponents were scoring even easier against us as well. Nolan seems to be trying to tighten things up and play a close checking game. It seems to be killing our offense, yet generally is keeping games closer.

We're still the worst team in the league, probably the worst in the 3-pt era, and are likely to remain that way. But in terms of just evaluating the sabres and looking for indications that things are getting better, it appears as if we bottomed out around game 20 and there are indications of small improvements since. The direction seems to make sense. We know we don't have any big offensive threats, so developing the defensive side of the game hopefully allows for the team to be playing well defensively when we get the injection of offense in the next few drafts. Versus trying to run and gun... while exciting, we're not going to be outgunning anybody, and the players on the team now generally aren't going to be responsible for putting up huge point totals when the team is ready to contend. Our offensive injection we will hopefully get in the next couple drafts isn't going to do us much good if the team hasn't learned to be defensively responsible by then. If we continue to be a team that plays chunks of games where opponents are only on pace to score <200 GA/82, then I'd be pretty happy with that and content to wait for the offensive talent in the next few drafts.
LOL.

You're making projections based on 10 games? Seriously?
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,697
7,928
In the Panderverse
Edit: If I've done this right, after the December 29th WAS at BUF game, the old W-L-T points system would have BUF at 4-24-11 for 19 points after 39 games, projecting to 8-51-23 and 39 points after 82 games, or, in '74-75 80 game season projection, 8-49-23 for 39 points.
 

Sabretooth

Registered User
May 14, 2013
3,104
646
Ohio
LOL.

You're making projections based on 10 games? Seriously?

Projections can be made at any time. I didn't make any statement about their absoluteness or long term accuracy of the projections. 10 games is roughly 1/8 of a season and seems like a reasonable enough time to make statements like "If we played like this the whole season we'd be like that at the end of the season."

Now, if you wanna say I can't draw any meaningful conclusions from projections based on 10 games, then fine you're welcome to your opinion. But I'm not pushing any agenda, just attempting to interpret what the numbers are telling me, as unbiasedly as possible. How I choose to waste my time trying to stay interested in this lost season really isn't any of your concern.

Anyways, after 40 games, we're halfway through the season, and Nolan has now coached 2 more games this season than Rolston. Here's how the sabres would finish if their current stats were extrapolated to the full 82 games:

Wins: 22.6 (trending upward, but slowing)
ROW: 12.3 (trending upward, but slowing)
Points: 53.3 (trending upward, but slowing)
GF: 145.6 (steady)
GA: 231.7 (Trending downward, but slowing)

For about the last 15 games or so, the sabres have been playing better than their projected finish, causing most projections to improve slightly. 20 games ago, the sabres were projected to finish with 37 points, and now that has risen to a projections of 53 points. GF hasn't changed much. In fact, over the past 20 games the GF projection has dropped 2 GF from 148 to 146. The improvement has come from GA - 20 games ago, the sabres were projected to finish with 258 GA, and now the projection has dropped to 232 GA. In other words, goal differential projection has improved by about ~25 goals, which would typically be moving up the standings by about 6 positions (league wise) - that is if we weren't already so far off the chart that we still haven't even caught up to 29th yet with the improvement.
 

Sabretooth

Registered User
May 14, 2013
3,104
646
Ohio
Another 5 games, another "how bad are we really" update. Based on where we are after 45 games, here's how we're projected to finish at the end of the season for the following metrics:

Wins: 23.7 (still trending upward, but slowing)
ROW: 12.8 (basically steady)
Points: 56.5 (still trending upward, but slowing)
GF: 145.8 (rock steady - just not getting any better here)
GA: 227.8 (still trending downward, but slowing)

Games 41 through 45 featured opponents who have a combined average point total of 51.4 based on today's standings. It was our second easiest 5 game stretch of the season based on that criteria, and thus we had our second best 5-game stretch performance of the season, using goal differential as the criteria. Our easiest 5-game stretch of the season so far was games 31-35, where our opponents then have an average point total of just 48.6 points today. That week was also our best performance in a 5-game stretch as should be expected, and it was the only 5-game stretch we've had a positive goal differential on the season.

In fact, looking at GF, GA, and Differential, there is a pretty darn good correlation between quality of opponent, and how we perform in GF, GA, and diff. In fact, its convincing enough to me at this point, I'm convinced that whenever we look like we're playing better, the root cause is not the coach or the team being fired up or anything like that, its simply that we're playing better stretches of hockey when we're playing easier competition. That seems to be all there is to it for this team, which really should be obvious. There is not evidence at all that Nolan's sabres are actually doing better than rolston's sabres in terms of pure results like GF/GA/diff when compared to quality of opponents, for example. Rolston simply had a lot tougher opponents. There is no evidence that sending down the kids and playing the vets have improved the on-ice results. Of course, we can argue about things like myers looking a lot better under Nolan and the team in general appearing to fight harder and make fewer mistakes, but the truth is that there is no evidence yet that those improvements are creating a better tangible result in the outcomes of the games. Good for player development and the tank I guess.

Anyways, looking forward to our next 5 games, we play CBJ twice, TOR, FLA, and CAR. Today, those 5 opponents have an average point total of 47.4 - so these next 5 games will be our easiest 5 games to date. Using the correlation between GF/GA/diff and quality of opponent, I can make a prediction that we're going to see some pretty good (for us) hockey over the next 5 games. The model might not be perfect because the datapoint will be outside the current range of data points, but based on how we performed this season, we should score >=12 GF, give up <=9 GA, and perform >= +3 on goal differential for the 5 games. It doesn't sound that impressive, but given this team only has one 5 game stretch out of 45 games played of +diff hockey, it sure is something to see we might go + over the next 5 games.

moral is, don't be fooled into thinking we're a real hockey team over the next 5 games. After these 5 games, it looks like we'll be upping our quality of opponent to tank levels again :P
 
Last edited:

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
15,282
6,756
With how little talent this team has and how bad they are, are numbers REALLY that important to show how bad we are? Are these numbers in anyway going to change how a team plays?
 

haseoke39

Registered User
Mar 29, 2011
13,938
2,491
With how little talent this team has and how bad they are, are numbers REALLY that important to show how bad we are? Are these numbers in anyway going to change how a team plays?

Go watch moneyball or read a Nate Silver book or something.
 

Sabretooth

Registered User
May 14, 2013
3,104
646
Ohio
Time for my 5-game updated projections and predictions...

With how little talent this team has and how bad they are, are numbers REALLY that important to show how bad we are? Are these numbers in anyway going to change how a team plays?
Me running the numbers isn't going to change anything, no. But this thread started out as seeing how bad the sabres were in terms of comparing stats to other historically bad teams. I just expanded on that to noticing/determining the relationship between opponent strength and results and using that to predict just how bad we're going to be the rest of the season. Everyone knows we're bad, the numbers aren't going to convince people the team is better or worse than they see with their own eyes, and thats not really the point. If people took one thing away from this, I would hope it would be a realization that the sabres are what they are, and any percieved hot streaks/tank off and cold streaks/tank on stretches of games have more to do with playing easier or tougher opponents respectively than any other explanation. But like I said before, I'm doing this for fun, for my own sake, because I'm one of those strange people that actually find crunching numbers to be an enjoyable thing to do, and its how I can personally give purpose to following the team throughout the rest of the season. If some other people appreciate the info I'm sharing - and it seems at least someone does - then all the more reason to continue to post what I'm observing. :)


Anyways, here's the basic metrics for how we're projected to finish at the end of the season based on where we are after 50 games played:

Wins: 23.0 (-0.7)
ROW: 13.1 (+0.3)
Points: 57.4 (+0.9)
GF: 159.1 (+13.3)
GA: 236.2 (+8.4)


Our opponents in games 46-50 have a combined average point total of 55.2 points as of today. Over the course of the 5 games, our opponents gained enough points to bump them up to our second easiest 5 game stretch (vs the easiest 5 game stretch before the 5 games were played). Even adjusting for today's point total, my predictions for GF and GA were way off for this set of games. We scored a total of 17 GF this set - the sabres highest scoring 5-game set in the season so far. However, we also gave up 19 GA during this set, which is our second worse GA in a 5-game set this season - the worst being 20 GA during games 16-20, our hardest stretch of the season (opponents have 73.6 average points today). In terms of differential, we finished the set a -2, which while less than I predicted 5 games ago, it is within the margin of error for the diff curve now after accounting for today's point totals. GF and GA for the set, however, may need to be considered outliers, or a step change in performance, depending on whether we return to the projections next set or continue to be off the projection.

Looking ahead, I'm lumping the next 7 games before the olympic break together, rather than having a split set of 5 games - 2 before and 3 after the olympics. Not exactly sure if a 7 game set will exactly fit in with the data so far using 5 game sets, but I'll adjust later on if I need to. In those next 7 games, our opponents have an average point total of 61.4 points today - a pretty tough stretch compared to other sets of games. Using the relationship based on our play this season against similar strength opponents, we are expected to score 10.7 GF during the next 7 games while allowing 19.8 GA, for a predicted diff of -9.1.

Basically, anybody worried about the tank thinking we've been playing better and gaining ground... well, forgetaboutit. The cupcake chunk of our season is over. We've got a tough schedule coming up not just the next 7 games - the 5 games after the olympics are even tougher (63.8 average pts today). The last 5 games was supposed to be our easiest set of the season to date, and in my evaluation, we underperformed based on how we've played against similar strength opponents. Sure, we scored a lot of goals, but we had no business giving up as many goals as we did. This was a set of games we were supposed to be able to have a + diff, and we finished -2. Last time we played a set with a similar average points, we came away with 7 points. Last 5 games, we only got 4 points. If it weren't for the 3 goal win vs. the jackets, even diff would have been well below the margin of error. But that is why we look at chunks of games and not just individual games. There is lots of game to game variation that gets averaged out over time. Anyways, this should be considered nothing but a complete success for the tank, but entirely underperforming even for the lowly sabres standards.

I've added a points prediction to my data sheet. Much like GF/GA/diff, there is a clear correlation between points earned and average opponent points. Its not as solid as the goals correlations though, so its a lot more likely to be wrong - the error band is about +/-1.5 to 2 points per 5 game stretch. That means if I make a prediction right now, the margin of error for the prediction would be +/-5 points in either direction of my predicted point total for the end of the season (using root sum of squares of the error) - in other words, really not much of a tighter prediction than just using the basic projection like at the beginning of this post. But I'm doing it for fun so whatever.

Next 7 games, we should only gain about 3.4 points based on our play vs. similar strength opponents. Which really means, we'll probably only gain 3 or 4 points before the olympic break. The 5 games after the olympic break, being as tough as they are, we'll be over-performing if we get 2 points in those 5 games. As of today, the sabres have just 35 points on the year. Looking at the rest of our schedule and the average points of our opponents today in 5 game chunks, we are only predicted to gain about 23 points the rest of the season if we continue to play as we have so far this year. That puts us ~58 points +/-5 points at the end of the season. Not surprisingly, this correlates well with the simple extrapolation of our points today after 50 games performed at the beginning of this post. But there you go... the basic projection and the more advanced prediction both arrive at basically the same conclusion through different means, so I guess thats saying something :shrug:

---

Down below is the data chart that shows the information I've been sharing. The data shown are the GF/GA/diff 5-game set data points through 50 games (so 10 data points so far). The x-axis (horizontal) is the 5 opponents average points, and the y-axis (vertical) is the 82-game GF/GA/diff pace for each 5-game set. Additionally, sets under Rolston are the open, outlined only data points, and all the solid data points are games under Nolan. The second set of data points from the left (just above 55 points on the horizontal axis) are the last 5 games, games 46-50. So, you see what I mean when I say GF and GA really deviated from the curves there, though diff is basically still on the curve or within the margin of error anyways.

The main reason I wanted to show this chart is to show conclusively that there has been no change at all in how the team is playing since the start of the season. That also goes to say that, there is no evidence in the data that Nolan is getting more tangible results out of the team than Rolston did. In terms of goal differential, they both follow the exact same curve. To conclude there is a difference, there would be a noticable step change between Rolstons games and Nolans games. You see the open data points to the far right of the graph - those are Rolston sets against tough opponents that Nolan hasn't come close to yet. The 2 Rolston sets in the middle of the chart have results that are perfectly aligned with the results nolan achieved vs. similar strength opponents. Nolan has 4 sets - 20 games - easier than Rolstons easiest set, and the metrics were improved with the easier strength of opponents.

So, the improvement in the stats can be 100% explained simply by realizing that Rolston got the toughest stretches of games on the schedule, and lately we've had some real easy stretches - we play better against easier opponents. What a huge surprise, I know, but I just feel the obvious needs to be pointed out in this case. People are worried about the tank, worried we're going to pass Edmonton and Calgary at this rate - This rate will not continue. Unless there is a step change in team performance, we're getting back to the tank starting today. Look at the data points just above 61 on the horizontal axis - thats where our next 7 games are, thats how poorly we should expect to play. And the 5 games after the olympics are currently at 64 on the horizontal axis. The only step change we're going to see is potentially a change for the worst after the trade deadline. 58 points to finish the season is already pretty bad though, and I would be surprised if even Edm can manage to out tank that. We're still as bad as we were when we started the season, and I believe the next 12 games will show that.

That is not to say that I don't think Nolan has done great things as far as getting players giving more effort and playing harder and all. Myers has been great under Nolan and so have some others. Ennis and Stafford are playing well again. Girgs is developing. Lots of good things. Just that none of those good things are effecting the bottom line - which is exactly what the tank crowd wants, ultimately. To develop and see promise while still losing for a good pick. Thats pretty much exactly what is happening this year. But this thread began to see just how bad the sabres were in terms of stats, and as far as stats go, we're still one of if not the worst team in the modern era.

Here is the data I'm refering to:
6G4YQ1D.png
 
Last edited:

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,697
7,928
In the Panderverse
Edit: If I've done this right, after the December 29th WAS at BUF game, the old W-L-T points system would have BUF at 4-24-11 for 19 points after 39 games, projecting to 8-51-23 and 39 points after 82 games, or, in '74-75 80 game season projection, 8-49-23 for 39 points.

1/27/14 Update: I keep it simpler than Sabretooth.

After the CBJ game, before the PIT game, the old W-L-T points system would have BUF at 6-29-15 for 27 points after 50 games, projecting to 10-48-25 and 44 points after 82 games, or, in a '74-75 80 game season projection, 10-46-24 for 43 points.

BUF has already exceeded the '74-75 Washington Capitals point total, and seems a lock to top their 8 wins from that season. So, with the exception of their putrid goal scoring, the '13-14 Sabres probably can't be called the worst of all time.

Fun facts: In December and January, BUF has "tied" the same number of games they lost in regulation. And, their offense has improved so much, they are almost averaging 2 goals per game for the season. So on paper, the team is improving.
 
Last edited:

Sabretooth

Registered User
May 14, 2013
3,104
646
Ohio
I realized my last post is pretty much tl;dr, so here's a concise summary of what I'm looking at. I'll try to follow this format from now on and avoid the walls of text - I've done all the explaining of my process I need to do at this point and people can go back and read it and ask questions if they don't understand. Let me know if the below is a better presentation of the data or if you prefer the novelization version. I can do either willingly :sarcasm:

---

Current Totals after 50 games:
  • Wins: 14 (+1)
  • ROW: 8 (+1)
  • Points: 35 (+4)
  • GF: 97 (+17) - 6 from shoot-out
  • GA: 144 (+19) - 4 from shoot-out

82-Game Projection/Extrapolation (based on above):
  • Wins: 23.0 (-0.7)
  • ROW: 13.1 (+0.3)
  • Points: 57.4 (+0.9)
  • GF: 159.1 (+13.3)
  • GA: 236.2 (+8.4)

Last 5 Games:
  • Average Opp Points Today: 55.2
  • GF (Actual - Predicted): 17 - 13.0
  • GA (Actual - Predicted): 19 - 13.2
  • Diff (Actual - Predicted): (-2) - (-0.2)
  • Points (Actual - Predicted): 4 - 7.4

Next 5 Games*:
  • Average Opp Points Today: 61.4
  • GF (Predicted): 10.7
  • GA (Predicted): 19.8
  • Diff (Predicted): -9.1
  • Points (Predicted): 3.4
*This set will actually be 7 games, up to the olympic break

82-Game Projection/Extrapolation (based on opponent strength):
  • GF (remaining - total): 63.4 - 160.4 (NA)
  • GA (remaining - total): 88.8 - 232.8 (NA)
  • Points (remaining - total): 22.2 - 57.2 (NA)

Sabretooth thoughts/comments:
  • Easy stretch is over - next 12 games are tough
  • Team underperformed last 5 games vs. prediction
  • Nolan and Rolston perform similar in sets with similar Average Opp Points Today - Rolston had tougher schedule
 

RazielMoshman

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
967
18
UK
I know there have been some historical bad teams, but are we on pace to set any records? I mean actually being the worst team in history in certain elements, eg, GF, wins, etc.

Couple of my friends have asked me and just interested to know.
 

Sabretooth

Registered User
May 14, 2013
3,104
646
Ohio
Current Totals after 57 games:
  • Wins: 15 (+1)
  • ROW: 9 (+1)
  • Points: 38 (+3)
  • GF: 110 (+13) - 6 from shoot-out
  • GA: 172 (+24) - 4 from shoot-out

82-Game Projection/Extrapolation (based on above):
  • Wins: 21.6 (-1.4)
  • ROW: 12.9 (-.02)
  • Points: 54.7 (-2.7)
  • GF: 159.1 (+13.3)
  • GA: 236.2 (+8.4)

Last 5 Games*:
  • Average Opp Points Today: 67.9
  • GF (Actual - Predicted): 13 - 10.9
  • GA (Actual - Predicted): 24 - 20.5
  • Diff (Actual - Predicted): (-11) - (-9.6)
  • Points (Actual - Predicted): 3 - 3.5
*This set was actually 7 games, up to the olympic break

Next 5 Games:
  • Average Opp Points Today: 68.8
  • GF (Predicted): 7.6
  • GA (Predicted): 15.0
  • Diff (Predicted): -7.4
  • Points (Predicted): 2.1

82-Game Projection/Extrapolation (based on opponent strength):
  • GF (remaining - total): 54.5 - 164.5 (+4.1)
  • GA (remaining - total): 71.4 - 243.4 (+10.6)
  • Points (remaining - total): 20.0 - 58.0 (+0.8)

Sabretooth thoughts/comments:
  • GA worse than expected for second straight set of games - this set tied games 16-20 for worst of the season in GA pace
  • Differential was worse than expected by largest margin season to date - GF was basically as expected
  • Next 5 games after the olympic break are another tough set - expect the poor performance to continue up to and past the trade deadline
  • Looking further ahead, games 63-72 will be the easiest stretch of our schedule the rest of the way - don't be fooled into thinking it means the team is starting another Buffatroll late season meaningless push
  • Not exactly sure how any trade deadline deals will effect my projections going forward, but I can only imagine the team will be worse after the deadline
 

Sabretooth

Registered User
May 14, 2013
3,104
646
Ohio
I know there have been some historical bad teams, but are we on pace to set any records? I mean actually being the worst team in history in certain elements, eg, GF, wins, etc.

Couple of my friends have asked me and just interested to know.

Well, earlier in the year we were challenging for worst offensive team in the history of the NHL in terms of goals scored, (set back when the season was only 70 games). It now looks like we're scoring at a rate that we won't break that record in absolute terms, but I imagine worst GF/game is still in play.

It is pretty much impossible these days for any team to come close to the expansion 74-75 capitals, the official worst team in history. 8-67-5 for 21 points. OT, shootout, and 3-pt games will keep that record from ever being beat. Its a pretty safe bet the sabres aren't quite that bad. Using the same standings systems as that year, the sabres are currently 9-38-10 for 28 points.

Its possible/probable the sabres will go down as the worst team since the 04-05 lockout that introduced the shootout/3pt system.

Its also possible/probably the sabres will go down as the worst non-expansion team in the history of the NHL.
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,697
7,928
In the Panderverse
Well, earlier in the year we were challenging for worst offensive team in the history of the NHL in terms of goals scored, (set back when the season was only 70 games). It now looks like we're scoring at a rate that we won't break that record in absolute terms, but I imagine worst GF/game is still in play.

It is pretty much impossible these days for any team to come close to the expansion 74-75 capitals, the official worst team in history. 8-67-5 for 21 points. OT, shootout, and 3-pt games will keep that record from ever being beat. Its a pretty safe bet the sabres aren't quite that bad. Using the same standings systems as that year, the sabres are currently 9-38-10 for 28 points.

Its possible/probable the sabres will go down as the worst team since the 04-05 lockout that introduced the shootout/3pt system.

Its also possible/probably the sabres will go down as the worst non-expansion team in the history of the NHL.

I don't know how you get your numbers.
I calculate the '13-14 Sabres record under the '74-75 points system as 7-34-16=30pts.

Under the old points system, any '13-14 game which went to OT / SO would have been a tie in '74-75.

So, to "project back" to '74-75 scoring:
A) the '13-14 Sabres loss count stays the same,
B) the '13-14 wins are decremented by the number of OT and shootout wins, and
C) the OT and SO wins are then combined with the number of OT losses to comprise the total number of '74-75 ties.

'13-14 57GP 15W 34L 8OTL = 38pts
'74-75 57GP 7W 34L 16T = 30pts
 

B U F F A L O

Registered User
Dec 30, 2013
2,620
0
I don't know how you get your numbers.
I calculate the '13-14 Sabres record under the '74-75 points system as 7-34-16=30pts.

Under the old points system, any '13-14 game which went to OT / SO would have been a tie in '74-75.

So, to "project back" to '74-75 scoring:
A) the '13-14 Sabres loss count stays the same,
B) the '13-14 wins are decremented by the number of OT and shootout wins, and
C) the OT and SO wins are then combined with the number of OT losses to comprise the total number of '74-75 ties.

'13-14 57GP 15W 34L 8OTL = 38pts
'74-75 57GP 7W 34L 16T = 30pts

I dont remember teams getting 1 pt even if they lost in the 5 min OT. You had to actually make it through OT to get the 1 pt tie?

So any game we lost in OT this year would be an L not a T. The only games that would be 1 pt for T would be any game that went to SO.
 

RazielMoshman

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
967
18
UK
Well, earlier in the year we were challenging for worst offensive team in the history of the NHL in terms of goals scored, (set back when the season was only 70 games). It now looks like we're scoring at a rate that we won't break that record in absolute terms, but I imagine worst GF/game is still in play.

It is pretty much impossible these days for any team to come close to the expansion 74-75 capitals, the official worst team in history. 8-67-5 for 21 points. OT, shootout, and 3-pt games will keep that record from ever being beat. Its a pretty safe bet the sabres aren't quite that bad. Using the same standings systems as that year, the sabres are currently 9-38-10 for 28 points.

Its possible/probable the sabres will go down as the worst team since the 04-05 lockout that introduced the shootout/3pt system.

Its also possible/probably the sabres will go down as the worst non-expansion team in the history of the NHL.

Wow, interesting stuff. Thanks for that it's exactly what I was after. It's a shame we are these records but hopefully we'll be better soon.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad