Speculation: The best Avalanche player next season?

[ANewHope]

IMO I think Tampa could have won without Kuch last year, and they basically won without Stamkos. You have to have multiple pieces and they have to be good, but there are pieces that are basically non-negotiable... 1-2C (and 3C is becoming more important) 1D and 1G. You can get away with other strengths, but those pieces are key.

Typically, if a wing is clearly your best player, you don't win Cups. A big part of that today is the modern cap world. Top end wings demand more money than 1D and just under 1C... yet their impact on the game is typically lower than both. Once you get good, cap space becomes a priority and that extra pay over more impactful players causes issues. IMO it is better to split 12m with 7m to 2C and 5m to 3C than 12m to 1W (like Panarin).

I wouldn't say Edmonton had insane center depth... the had McDavid and Drai with some 4th line guys (and Drai plays wing a lot). Same with Matthews/Tavares. To have insane center depth you need a strong 1-2-3 rotation in today's NHL. Tampa, Washington, and Pittsburgh all had strong center rotations. Chicago has always been solid (even in their weakest year they have Richards and Vermette as 2-3s with Kruger as the 4). LA was really strong down the middle with Kopi, Carter and Richards. You just don't win without center depth, and your 1C or 1D better be your best player.

Yeah I said without Stamkos they needed Point. If they didn't have Point or Stamkos I don't think they win. I just think it's ridiculous to think they could have won without Kucherov. We'll have to agree to disagree but I think that's absurd. He had 32 points in 23 games. 34 in 25 the year before that. Even if you don't think production matters ... that's a gigantic loss.

I think C's just tend to be better on average. I think when players are young and above there peers it makes sense to stick them down the middle. So I'd agree on average your best player is far more likely to be your C and it's a more valuable position. I'd trade one of Rants/Landeskog for an elite C right now. Just saying you need the defense, bottom 6, and wings as well. Chicago isn't Chicago without Kane, and Washington doesn't win without Ovy.

Honestly even the Kings. People love to mention Doughty/Koptitar/Quick for good reason ... but Brown/Williams are very forgotten at this point. Even Gaborik. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Gaborik lead them in goals during the 2nd cup? I know Brown was tied for the lead in points the first cup while being there leader and hitting everything that moved. Justin Williams had how many clutch plays? They don't win without Brown/Williams. We've seen them with an elite Doughty/Kopitar and none of the surrounding pieces.

I bet you 98% of NHL teams trade there top 4 C's for Edmonton's and Toronto's top 2.

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm pretty sure the lack of depth up the middle (which has led to the over-reliance on Jost and Compher every single postseason the last four years) is the biggest reason the Avs have bowed out in the 2nd round three seasons in a row.

I definitely do not think MacKinnon/Kadri is one of the best 1-2 combos in the league. Kadri is at best a low-end 2C, and he's wildly inconsistent. If he can find his form from the previous season/postseason, OR Newhook turns out to be better in that 2C position, then the Avs will most definitely reap the benefits.

But yes, the lack of a proper 3C meant that MacKinnon and Kadri had to bring their respective A games. Not just one of them, both. Obviously Kadri didn't, and then he got suspended. That left the depth chart MacKinnon/Compher/Jost/Bellemare, and that was never gonna cut it.

Basically the Avs really needed to find an upgrade to Kadri, or find a better 3C than Jost to fill in whenever Kadri hit a slump or otherwise was unavailable. The Avs did neither, and they paid the price.

How many and which teams have a better 1-2 combo than MacKinnon-Kadri?

There's way too much recency bias with Kadri here. He's one season removed from pacing at 31 goals and 58 points, which would have been his second best season in both categories. One goal and three points away from his best. Then he went on to post a very impressive 9 goals and 18 points in 15 playoff games without getting suspended.

Jost and Compher weren't the ones turning pucks over for game deciding goals like Nemeth and Graves were, and they weren't responsible for letting in soft goals in the last few and most important games of the season, like Grubauer did.

The Avs lost because of defensive mistakes and bad goals. Not because of their center depth. Both the eye test and the analytics show that the Avs outplayed Vegas in the last two games of the series, with Compher and Jost at 2C and 3C.

 

[Pokecheque]

I don't buy the notion that you can't build around a winger, but you definitely need some good players at center to say the least.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't see the concern if Mikko is the Avs best player next season, if everyone stays relatively healthy. It doesn't have to mean Nate and Cale regressed. I think that severely underrates Mikko's ability.

Mikko easily has the talent, size, athleticism, work ethic, and clutch ability to be a top 3 player in the world, and better than MacKinnon. Mikko has more tools at his disposal. Which makes him more dangerous against different types of opponents, and against teams trying to target them and shut them down.

If you take away Nate's time and space in the neutral zone, he's much less effective. Mikko however has the strength and size and talent to beat you at any type of game you want.

Mikko's also younger and coming into his own as is the case with many power forwards. It feels like he's got another clear level or two he can get to.

I also don't think it's that concerning any more if your best player is a winger. Wingers are much better players than they used to be. Centers don't even play a playmaker role nearly as much as they used to. They're often the snipers now and the wingers are the ones creating a lot of the scoring opportunities.

Three out of the last four Cup winners had a winger as their best player with Kucherov and Ovechkin. It's four out of the last four Cup winners if you consider Tarasenko the best player on the Blues.

 

[ANewHope]

St. Loo's run will always be a bit of an anomaly..

Isn't that kinda the point tho? They won a cup and Dallas/Montreal have both made the finals recently. Than alot of the teams that have won were just stacked. Kings, Chicago, Tampa, ... they were elite everywhere. Once you win the narrative changes as well.

If Kadri puts up 55 points this year, Newhook flourishes as a 3rd line C and puts up 35-45, and Jost puts up 25-30 .. and we win the cup the narrative will completely change about our C depth and people will back on it as a strength. It's like before the season nobody gave a shit about Montreal down the middle but the second they have success people rave about it.

I'm not even defending Colorado's C depth. I think betting on Kadri bouncing back and Newhook breaking out is pretty ballsy. If I was the GM I would have much preferred Landeskog's money to go to a C. I'd move Byram for a legitimate 2C. We aleady have an elite wing, an elite 1D. My thing is you need everything not just a C. Once you have a 1C .. momentum/results change how your 2C-4C are viewed. Kadri put up what like 18 points in 15 playoff games last year? He's viewed differently if he's not an idiot that gets suspended and so is our C depth.

Gru going cold at the worst possible time, our superstars slowing down, Kadri getting suspended, Girard being nowhere near his regular season self is why we lost to Vegas. Not our C's. We still almost won with Jost/Compher down the middle lol

 

[henchman21]

I don't buy the notion that you can't build around a winger, but you definitely need some good players at center to say the least.

I really don't think there is a team that has successfully done it. Even Ovi as a generational winger, wasn't good enough until the Caps built up the center spot.

 

[Foppa2118]

The Caps didn't build up their center depth. They had Backstrom since 2007-08. Kuznetsov since 2013-14. Oshie since 2015-16. And Eller since 2016-17.

And they still built around Ovi and he's been their best player the whole time, including when they won the Cup.

The difference was Trotz got them to play better defense.

 

[ANewHope]

I really don't think there is a team that has successfully done it. Even Ovi as a generational winger, wasn't good enough until the Caps built up the center spot.

C is obviously more important than wing. I don't think anybody will ever deny that. Even as an Avs fan I think Colorado has made a mistake by being loaded at wing. Rants/Landeskog/Bura/Donk was an overkill. Swapping one of them out for an equal C made more sense.

My thing is for the most part you need it all. Washington isn't winning by building up that C depth without Ovy. You need that top flight C, top flight D, and than the production however comes on the wings. I just think it's forgotten and underrated. Dustin Brown, Justin Williams, Patrick Sharp, Marian Hossa, Kessell, Guentzel all play gigantic roles that couldn't just be replaced.

 

[Pokecheque]

How many and which teams have a better 1-2 combo than MacKinnon-Kadri?

There's way too much recency bias with Kadri here. He's one season removed from pacing at 31 goals and 58 points, which would have been his second best season in both categories. One goal and three points away from his best. Then he went on to post a very impressive 9 goals and 18 points in 15 playoff games without getting suspended.

Jost and Compher weren't the ones turning pucks over for game deciding goals like Nemeth and Graves were, and they weren't responsible for letting in soft goals in the last few and most important games of the season, like Grubauer did.

The Avs lost because of defensive mistakes and bad goals. Not because of their center depth. Both the eye test and the analytics show that the Avs outplayed Vegas in the last two games of the series, with Compher and Jost at 2C and 3C.

I won't argue with you on Graves, Nemeth, and Grubauer. They all failed in certain respects. But there's one common thread in the last three seasons apart from just the goalie, and that's the lack of a reliable and consistent presence at the 2 and 3C positions.

And Jost has been doing much, much worse than just turning the puck over the last two postseasons. He's flat-out getting run over once the refs throw away the rulebook. The so-called "third" line the Avs rolled out in the Bubble of Namestnikov-Jost-Compher was so abhorrently bad Bednar had to bump up the Bellemare line and use them as his third line. Even in super-sheltered and limited minutes, that Jost line got absolutely KILLED by Dallas. Jost also played a not-insubstantial role in some goals against in the Vegas series, because any defensive prowess he possesses in the regular season was gone once it was clutch-and-grab time. So long as the Avs continue to expect more from JTC and Jost, they will continue to come up short. They need to realize both of those guys are good 4th liners, and nothing more.

Defensive mistakes will happen, but a big reason those defensive mistakes were so costly is because the Avs had no way of consistently battling back from those goals against. Jost couldn't secure the puck, and he most certainly couldn't score. Compher wasn't horrible, but he also wasn't that effective either. It goes way beyond inconsistent goaltending and two bad defensemen.

It's not just recency bias with Kadri. There's a reason the Leafs ultimately chose to go out and get Tavares (IMO that was the wrong way to go about it, but I see their reasoning). Even in his 31/58 season, he was inconsistent. And really...that's fine. But if you're going with a guy like that, you should most definitely shore up the depth chart with a better center on the 3rd line, so that when Kadri enters one of his eventual slumps, it doesn't hurt the team as much.

And to answer your question, I'd argue there are better 1-2 punches at center all over the league. Carolina, Boston (before Krejci left), Dallas, Pittsburgh obviously, Toronto, Vancouver, Philadelphia, Buffalo before they traded Reinhart, the Islanders, and if they can stay healthy, I'd say New Jersey is better too. MacKinnon is better than any single center than what those guys have, but we're not just talking about one player, we're talking about two, and Kadri brings down the average. That's just my opinion, you obviously have a much higher opinion of Kadri than I do, and to be honest, I like Kadri. I just think he's ultimately limited as a player.

I'm really hoping Newhook works out because there really doesn't appear to be a Plan B in Colorado.

 

[The Abusement Park]

We're arguing that the concern over the Avs center depth, and that it's the most important thing, is vastly overblown.

So is the importance of the 3C, as if it can sink a team with inarguably one of the best 1-2 combos in the league, with MacKinnon-Kadri, and inarguably one of, if not the best D core's in the league with one of, if not the best 1D.

I mean it's all about comparing the roster to other contenders. Kadri as a 2 isn't anything special compared to the other contenders out there. Then we get to Jost as a 3C and that's where the real mismatches start to happen. Compared to the rest of the league they can compete and will do fine. But when Jost is against Pageau or Gourde or Staal it's a big weakness for this team.

 

[Pokecheque]

I really don't think there is a team that has successfully done it. Even Ovi as a generational winger, wasn't good enough until the Caps built up the center spot.

I'd argue the Caps let getting Halak'd in the playoffs mess with their heads, which led to a series of increasingly dumb decisions that delayed their eventual ascension as Cup champions. If they had just stuck with that core and built around it, they would've won MUCH earlier.

I'd also argue the Flames had it going on with Iginla and Kipprusoff, but Sutter ended up being a really horrid GM.

I agree it's probably the best and most simple way to build around an elite 1-2 center tandem, just like in the NFL you really should have an elite QB. It makes everything else so much easier. But I don't think it's impossible to build around a different position, it's just harder to do so, and obviously you still gotta have really good centers regardless.

 

[Pokecheque]

Isn't that kinda the point tho? They won a cup and Dallas/Montreal have both made the finals recently. Than alot of the teams that have won were just stacked. Kings, Chicago, Tampa, ... they were elite everywhere. Once you win the narrative changes as well.

If Kadri puts up 55 points this year, Newhook flourishes as a 3rd line C and puts up 35-45, and Jost puts up 25-30 .. and we win the cup the narrative will completely change about our C depth and people will back on it as a strength. It's like before the season nobody gave a shit about Montreal down the middle but the second they have success people rave about it.

I'm not even defending Colorado's C depth. I think betting on Kadri bouncing back and Newhook breaking out is pretty ballsy. If I was the GM I would have much preferred Landeskog's money to go to a C. I'd move Byram for a legitimate 2C. We aleady have an elite wing, an elite 1D. My thing is you need everything not just a C. Once you have a 1C .. momentum/results change how your 2C-4C are viewed. Kadri put up what like 18 points in 15 playoff games last year? He's viewed differently if he's not an idiot that gets suspended and so is our C depth.

Gru going cold at the worst possible time, our superstars slowing down, Kadri getting suspended, Girard being nowhere near his regular season self is why we lost to Vegas. Not our C's. We still almost won with Jost/Compher down the middle lol

Yes, and I'd argue every single team that wins it all always has some luck in their favor to some extent. Teams can only control so much--some other things just have to fall into place. And then some teams, like Montreal, do a rather mediocre job at team-building and some fall ass-backwards into the Cup Final.

There will always be exceptions to the rule. It happens everywhere in sports. Ask any football fan if they think the Giants under Eli Manning were truly good enough to win two friggin' Super Bowls, and most would tell you no. But yet...they did, fair and square.

We could go back and forth on this ad nauseam, but the fact of the matter is that the team keeps trying to fall back on Compher and Jost to play roles they just aren't suited for, and Kadri's failure this year really exposed their lack of depth beyond him. It sets up the same situation the last four years: MacKinnon is being asked to will the team to the postseason, and he and the top line simply can't do it alone. The Avs have got to find a way to offer up more stability up the middle or it's gonna be another early playoff exit.

 

[Foppa2118]

I won't argue with you on Graves, Nemeth, and Grubauer. They all failed in certain respects. But there's one common thread in the last three seasons apart from just the goalie, and that's the lack of a reliable and consistent presence at the 2 and 3C positions.

And Jost has been doing much, much worse than just turning the puck over the last two postseasons. He's flat-out getting run over once the refs throw away the rulebook. The so-called "third" line the Avs rolled out in the Bubble of Namestnikov-Jost-Compher was so abhorrently bad Bednar had to bump up the Bellemare line and use them as his third line. Even in super-sheltered and limited minutes, that Jost line got absolutely KILLED by Dallas. Jost also played a not-insubstantial role in some goals against in the Vegas series, because any defensive prowess he possesses in the regular season was gone once it was clutch-and-grab time. So long as the Avs continue to expect more from JTC and Jost, they will continue to come up short. They need to realize both of those guys are good 4th liners, and nothing more.

Defensive mistakes will happen, but a big reason those defensive mistakes were so costly is because the Avs had no way of consistently battling back from those goals against. Jost couldn't secure the puck, and he most certainly couldn't score. Compher wasn't horrible, but he also wasn't that effective either. It goes way beyond inconsistent goaltending and two bad defensemen.

It's not just recency bias with Kadri. There's a reason the Leafs ultimately chose to go out and get Tavares (IMO that was the wrong way to go about it, but I see their reasoning). Even in his 31/58 season, he was inconsistent. And really...that's fine. But if you're going with a guy like that, you should most definitely shore up the depth chart with a better center on the 3rd line, so that when Kadri enters one of his eventual slumps, it doesn't hurt the team as much.

And to answer your question, I'd argue there are better 1-2 punches at center all over the league. Carolina, Boston (before Krejci left), Dallas, Pittsburgh obviously, Toronto, Vancouver, Philadelphia, Buffalo before they traded Reinhart, the Islanders, and if they can stay healthy, I'd say New Jersey is better too. MacKinnon is better than any single center than what those guys have, but we're not just talking about one player, we're talking about two, and Kadri brings down the average. That's just my opinion, you obviously have a much higher opinion of Kadri than I do, and to be honest, I like Kadri. I just think he's ultimately limited as a player.

I'm really hoping Newhook works out because there really doesn't appear to be a Plan B in Colorado.

We can critique Jost and Compher that's totally fair, but I think the last sentence in my last post shows why the Avs center depth, and specifically the 3C spot wasn't the massive issue it's made out to be.

Both the eye test and the analytics show that the Avs outplayed Vegas in the last two games of the series, with Compher and Jost at 2C and 3C. If they can play that well agaisnt a team like Vegas with Compher and Jost playing behind MacKinnon, then the center depth wasn't the issue.

As for the center depth, I'll take the Avs 1-2 with MacK-Kadri over Vancouver, Philly, Dallas, Buffalo, NYI, and New Jersey for sure.

Carolina is close because I'm a big fan of both Aho and Necas. I won't take much issue if you think they're better, but I'll take the Avs with the better player in MacKinnon.

With Vancouver, the difference between MacKinnon and Petterson right now is a lot bigger than the difference between Horvat and Kadri, and I like Horvat a lot. Should be advantage Avs.

Same with Philly. MacKinnon is just so much better than Giroux or Courturier at this point.

Dallas is in a similar situation. Seguin is a shell of himself and Hintz is good, but he's also nowhere near as good as MacKinnon.

With Buffalo, Eichel is gonna be a great player if he can stay healthy, but MacKinnon is still definitely the better player at the moment. Reinhart basically scored at around the same pace as Kadri up until last year, where Reinhart paced for a few more goals. Advantage should go to the team with the best player in MacKinnon.

Islanders shouldn't even be in the discussion. Barzal is a good player but he's nowhere near MacKinnon. And I don't really see much difference between Nelson and Kadri. In fact, most years Kadri has been better. Should be advantage Colorado again, regardless of whether you think Nelson or Kadri is better, because MacKinnon is so much better than Barzal at this point.

Same with NJ, they shouldn't be in the discussion. Whoever you consider the 1-2 out of Hughes, Hischier, and Zacha, none of them are even close to MacKinnon, and they're all about on the same level as Kadri right now.

If you have a top 2 or 3 player/center in the NHL as your 1C and a good 2C that's proven multiple times he can score 30 goals and around 60 points, then by default you're going to have one of the best 1-2 combos in the league.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Again the main issue with the C depth isn't Kadri's level. Although Kadri basically being a guaranteed suspension isn't great. It's the fact that Gourde, Staal, Trochek, Pageau, Cizikas, Bennett, etc. are going to continue to eat alive our bottom 6 C'ers just like they have been the last 3 years.

 

[Foppa2118]

I mean it's all about comparing the roster to other contenders. Kadri as a 2 isn't anything special compared to the other contenders out there. Then we get to Jost as a 3C and that's where the real mismatches start to happen. Compared to the rest of the league they can compete and will do fine. But when Jost is against Pageau or Gourde or Staal it's a big weakness for this team.

It's not really though. As ANewHope said, there's so much else that goes into winning, including luck.

If MacKinnon, Mikko, or Makar, or the Avs goalie dominate a series, than it doesn't matter at all who is playing 3C, let alone that it's Jost.

They could play Cliche at 3C, and if the Avs top players outplay the other team's top players, and they get good goaltending, they'll most likely win.

Again the main issue with the C depth isn't Kadri's level. Although Kadri basically being a guaranteed suspension isn't great. It's the fact that Gourde, Staal, Trochek, Pageau, Cizikas, Bennett, etc. are going to continue to eat alive our bottom 6 C'ers just like they have been the last 3 years.

The difference between whether a team wins in the playoffs or not is almost never due to the bottom six or the 3C.

The vast majority of the time, it's due to the difference between the teams best players. The top six. Or the D core. Or the goaltending.

 

[The Abusement Park]

It's not really though. As ANewHope said, there's so much else that goes into winning, including luck.

If MacKinnon, Mikko, or Makar, or the Avs goalie dominate a series, than it doesn't matter at all who is playing 3C, let alone that it's Jost.

I mean in the playoffs that stuff 100% matters. Mack won't score 2ppg every series so that means someone else has to pick up the slack. I mean look at the Lightnings 3rd line. Outside of Kuch and Point they were the biggest tide turners on the team. The Avs have never had anyone outside the top line and Makar to make any impact on the game.

 

[Foppa2118]

I mean in the playoffs that stuff 100% matters. Mack won't score 2ppg every series so that means someone else has to pick up the slack. I mean look at the Lightnings 3rd line. Outside of Kuch and Point they were the biggest tide turners on the team. The Avs have never had anyone outside the top line and Makar to make any impact on the game.

Sure, but it's usually another top player that needs to pick up the slack if one isn't playing well. Like Mikko, or Landy, or Kadri, or Burky if Nate isn't playing well. It's not the 3C or the bottom six.

If it's the 3C that has to pick up the slack for MacKinnon, than that means all the top six players, including the wingers, are underperforming.

In which case, we should again blame the top six or the top players for losing, more than the 3C or bottom six.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sure, but it's usually another top player that needs to pick up the slack if one isn't playing well. Like Mikko, or Landy, or Kadri, or Burky if Nate isn't playing well. It's not the 3C or the bottom six.

If it's the 3C that has to pick up the slack for MacKinnon, than that means all the top six players, including the wingers, are underperforming.

In which case, we should again blame the top six or the top players for losing, more than the 3C or bottom six.

Mikko is at like a 1.5ppg and Landy is at a 1? Do you expect all of them to push 2ppg for us to win a cup? Outside Saad and Makar no one outside the top line made much of impact at all. Jost, Nuke, Bura, Compher, someone has to help the top line. They can only so much.

Again the Lightning’s 3rd line played an instrumental part in their win last year. The Eller/DSP line played a huge part for the caps. Kruger and Bickel were huge for the Hawks. Obviously you have to have your top guys doing their part but they if no one in the bottom 6 is providing anything it doesn’t matter how good your top line is playin.

 

[Foppa2118]

Mikko is at like a 1.5ppg and Landy is at a 1? Do you expect all of them to push 2ppg for us to win a cup? Outside Saad and Makar no one outside the top line made a huge impact. Jost, Nuke, Bura, Compher, someone has to help the top line. They can only so much.

Again the Lightning’s 3rd line played an instrumental part in their win last year. The Eller/DSP line played a huge part for the caps. Kruger and Bickel were huge for the Hawks. Obviously you have to have your top guys doing their part but they if no one in the bottom 6 is providing anything it doesn’t matter how good your top line is playin.

I haven't put any sort of standard on production for the Avs forwards. You were the one that introduced the 2ppg idea. I don't think they need to come anywhere close to 2ppg to win the Cup.

Tampa didn't win the Cup because of their third line. They won becuase of Kucherov, Hedman, and Vasilevskiy. Their top players like I've been talking about. They outplayed all the teams they faced including Montreal.

If Tampa's top players didn't play well, but their bottom six played at the same level, they'd probably have lost. Probably quite early in the tournament for that matter.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I haven't put any sort of standard on production for the Avs forwards. You were the one that introduced the 2ppg idea. I don't think they need to come anywhere close to 2ppg to win the Cup.

Tampa didn't win the Cup because of their third line. They won becuase of Kucherov, Hedman, and Vasilevskiy. Their top players like I've been talking about. They outplayed all the teams they faced including Montreal.

If Tampa's top players didn't play well, but their bottom six played at the same level, they'd probably have lost. Probably quite early in the tournament for that matter.

And yet every year our top players have played at a ridiculously elite level yet we aren’t going anywhere? The top line can’t do it all.

 

[Foppa2118]

And yet every year our top players have played at a ridiculously elite level yet we aren’t going anywhere? The top line can’t do it all.

The Avs top players played at a high level against St Louis and they won. They disappeared too often against Vegas and they lost.

Nate, Mikko, Landy and Burky all could have been better against Vegas, and they didn't have Kadri available all series. Plus Grubauer played poorly and let in some soft goals at the end of the series and Girard had some defensive breakdowns that cost them.

Just listen to Mikko. This is from an interview Murzu translated in another thread.

- Naturally there's pressure when you have a big role in the team. Of course players from bottom lines always step up but the star players are the drivers in the team. Our line has to look into the mirror, we have to figure out how to be better in the playoffs, Rantanen admits.

Pre-Game Talk: - 2021-22 Colorado Avalanche Preseason Thread

 

[The Abusement Park]

The Avs top players played at a high level against St Louis and they won. They disappeared too often against Vegas and they lost.

Nate, Mikko, Landy and Burky all could have been better against Vegas, and they didn't have Kadri available all series. Plus Grubauer played poorly and let in some soft goals at the end of the series and Girard had some defensive breakdowns that cost them.

Just listen to Mikko. This is from an interview Murzu translated in another thread.

- Naturally there's pressure when you have a big role in the team. Of course players from bottom lines always step up but the star players are the drivers in the team. Our line has to look into the mirror, we have to figure out how to be better in the playoffs, Rantanen admits.

Pre-Game Talk: - 2021-22 Colorado Avalanche Preseason Thread

No one played well against Vegas let’s be real. But I don’t think that quote means much. I mean I don’t think it’d come off very well if Mikko said, “The top lines done alright, but if Grubauer would’ve made any saves or anyone in the bottom 9 would’ve shown up we’d have a much better chance.”

 

[Foppa2118]

No one played well against Vegas let’s be real. But I don’t think that quote means much. I mean I don’t think it’d come off very well if Mikko said, “The top lines done alright, but if Grubauer would’ve made any saves or anyone in the bottom 9 would’ve shown up we’d have a much better chance.”

He didn't have to say anything though. He could have just dodged the question or said they were moving on from last year.

But he knows that in order to win in the playoffs, your best players need to be the best players. And that's him. It's not Jost or Compher.

There's lots of reasons they lost. Defensive mistakes and goaltending are the biggest reasons IMO. But Stone, Patches, and Karlsson outplaying Nate, Mikko, and Landy was a big reason as well. All of that is much higher in importance than the play of the 3C or bottom six.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

There is no doubt our C depth need to be better. This can be accomplished by trade or hopefully Kadri, Jost and Newhook taking strong steps from last year.

With that said we didn't lose the last three years because of C depth. We lost last year because of all those reasons some mentioned above. I won't go over them again. We lost the year before because of major injuries especially to Gru, Frankie, EJ etc. And the year prior that offside call against Landy doesn't happen and we have all the momentum to win that series. Heck we can even argue that they lost all three series because they are weak mentally.

Now if people want to argue that we would have been eliminated in the next round in each of those years because of our C depth they would have a strong argument IMO.