Speculation: The best Avalanche player next season?

[henchman21]

Great gig if you can get it. The only time you really notice him these days is when he’s accepting the cup.

Imagine having a higher PPG than Barkov, Stone, Aho, Ovi, etc and being a complete afterthought on the team!

 

[Puckstop40]

JT Compher

 

[henchman21]

Before I could finish reading your message, Kucherov, Ovechkin and Kane already came to mind.

Kane is the only one who really has an argument for best player on the team, and Toews in his prime was an elite 2 way 1C. Keith was a Norris defensemen.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

Anyone not saying Kadri is a naive hater full of naive hate. Long live Prince Nazem.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Kane is the only one who really has an argument for best player on the team, and Toews in his prime was an elite 2 way 1C. Keith was a Norris defensemen.

Kucherov is considered the second best player in the world by a lot of people. So, I think it’s safe to say he’s the best player on the Lightning.

Tampa has stars at every position though, so it’s probably not the best example of a winger leading a team.

 

[henchman21]

Kucherov is considered the second best player in the world by a lot of people. So, I think it’s safe to say he’s the best player on the Lightning.

Tampa has stars at every position though, so it’s probably not the best example of a winger leading a team.

IMO Way too many people equate best player in the world with highest scoring.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

IMO Way too many people equate best player in the world with highest scoring.

It is what matters most. Point hasn’t even been a PPG player in the regular season the last two years. While phenomenal in the playoffs, his postseason numbers are also worse than Kuch’s.

I see more of a case for Hedman, though I didn’t think he was as good as usual this year.

 

[henchman21]

It is what matters most. Point hasn’t even been a PPG player in the regular season the last two years. While phenomenal in the playoffs, his postseason numbers are also worse than Kuch’s.

I see more of a case for Hedman, though I didn’t think he was as good as usual this year.

Highly, highly disagree with that.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Highly, highly disagree with that.

What do you value more than production?

 

[henchman21]

What do you value more than production?

Defensive play. Don't get me wrong you need production... but give me a choice between an 80 point Selke level player and a 95 point offensively dominant, but defensively average player... I'll take the Selke guy every single time.

 

[BleedWell]

Look. It's Henchman again talking right out of his a**!
Thought you left after your Girard>Rantanen fiasko

Let's say Rantanen scores next season 110 points, Mackinnon 100 points and Rantanen has a little bit better defensive season again, Makar plays great but scores 60 points.
I don't think anyone but you thinks there is a problem.

 

[henchman21]

Look. It's Henchman again talking right out of his a**!
Thought you left after your Girard>Rantanen fiasko

Let's say Rantanen scores next season 110 points, Mackinnon 100 points and Rantanen has a little bit better defensive season again, Makar plays great but scores 60 points.
I don't think anyone but you thinks there is a problem.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Before I could finish reading your message, Kucherov, Ovechkin and Kane already came to mind.

Blackhawks are the only team to not win with an elite 1-2 at C. Plus Keith was a top 2 dman st the time.

 

[CharlesPuck]

Gabriel Landeskog. Our captain will come to play every single night. LFG

 

[The Abusement Park]

I think you can win with a winger as your best player. But your C's have to be elite.. Caps never won until they had elite C depth in Backstrom-Kuzy-Eller.

 

[Freudian]

As someone with a long history of sometimes getting it right in HF polls, I feel confident in my Makar vote.

 

[Spender]

Makar has all the tools to be our best player, but he still seems too hesitant offensively. I'll take MacK for this season, but I hope Makar can overtake him.

 

[ANewHope]

Am I the only one that thinks the constant debate of windows, C's etc. is kinda meaningless. Hockey isn't like other sports. It's very team dependent. There's a ton of "luck" involved and momentum is far more important than anything else. You take off Kane, Kuch, Ovy etc. and there teams aren't winning shit. Just like they aren't winning shit without Point/Keith/Backstrom/Hedman etc. Switch there bottom 6 out with a much weaker one and they also don't win. Tampa was just straight up stacked. They didn't win because any 1 specific thing.

IMO to a win a cup it just comes down to having an abundance of talent everywhere and if you can't do that you gotta get hot at the right time with the right matchups.

 

[henchman21]

Am I the only one that thinks the constant debate of windows, C's etc. is kinda meaningless. Hockey isn't like other sports. It's very team dependent. There's a ton of "luck" involved and momentum is far more important than anything else. You take off Kane, Kuch, Ovy etc. and there teams aren't winning shit. Just like they aren't winning shit without Point/Keith/Backstrom/Hedman etc. Switch there bottom 6 out with a much weaker one and they also don't win. Tampa was just straight up stacked. They didn't win because any 1 specific thing.

IMO to a win a cup it just comes down to having an abundance of talent everywhere and if you can't do that you gotta get hot at the right time with the right matchups.

Hockey is very team dependent, but teams don't win without specific pieces... been that way for a long, long time. That's why top end centers and defensemen are so highly desired. Teams need a lot of things to go right, but the timing and building of the team isn't just luck.

IE look at what Detroit is doing right now... they are loading up on the best defensive prospects and taking the time to develop them right. Since defensemen typically take an extra few seasons, start them first. Also grab a goalie that projects as a top end starter in 4 years. Next draft or two they will load up on centers to build up the next wave of pieces that are ready to start going in 2023 or 2024. By then they should have three top 4D, a young starting goalie, few talented wings, grizzled vet in Larkin at center with some young guys taking steps. It is a plan, not pure dumb luck.

 

[ANewHope]

Hockey is very team dependent, but teams don't win without specific pieces... been that way for a long, long time. That's why top end centers and defensemen are so highly desired. Teams need a lot of things to go right, but the timing and building of the team isn't just luck.

IE look at what Detroit is doing right now... they are loading up on the best defensive prospects and taking the time to develop them right. Since defensemen typically take an extra few seasons, start them first. Also grab a goalie that projects as a top end starter in 4 years. Next draft or two they will load up on centers to build up the next wave of pieces that are ready to start going in 2023 or 2024. By then they should have three top 4D, a young starting goalie, few talented wings, grizzled vet in Larkin at center with some young guys taking steps. It is a plan, not pure dumb luck.

But that's my point ... it's just an overwhelming amount of talent when you have a 1C, 1D, 1W. It's not that one specific piece. You can't win without Hedman or Kuch, just like you couldn't win with Stamkos hurt and no Point. All these teams either have all the pieces or they get hot at the right time like the Blues. A team like Tampa had everything across the board.

I agree. I'm not saying building a team is pure luck. You have to draft the pieces. Detroit for example got a huge steal in Seider. It's not as simple as just drafting a D. Alot of teams make a mistake there. Same with the Sens. They are incredible at drafting. Deciding who to spend your money on, trades etc. aren't luck. There's not an exact science. Whenever people toss out the C depth they ignore the backend or the goalie getting red hot in the playoffs. If Kadri doesn't get suspended, Newhook magically becomes a 50 point player on the wing, and Gru gets hot and goes on a tear .. Avs could have easily made the finals with there current C depth.

All I'm saying is the NHL isn't predictable. Edmonton has insane C depth with McDavid/Drai. Toronto with Matthews/Tavares. We had Duchene/Staz/ROR etc. It takes everything or lots of momentum atleast. Look at ROR in Buffalo without a 1D like Pie. He's not winning shit.

 

[henchman21]

But that's my point ... it's just an overwhelming amount of talent when you have a 1C, 1D, 1W. It's not that one specific piece. You can't win without Hedman or Kuch, just like you couldn't win with Stamkos hurt and no Point. All these teams either have all the pieces or they get hot at the right time like the Blues. A team like Tampa had everything across the board.

I agree. I'm not saying building a team is pure luck. You have to draft the pieces. Detroit for example got a huge steal in Seider. It's not as simple as just drafting a D. Alot of teams make a mistake there. Same with the Sens. They are incredible at drafting. Deciding who to spend your money on, trades etc. aren't luck. There's not an exact science. Whenever people toss out the C depth they ignore the backend or the goalie getting red hot in the playoffs. If Kadri doesn't get suspended, Newhook magically becomes a 50 point player on the wing, and Gru gets hot and goes on a tear .. Avs could have easily made the finals with there current C depth.

All I'm saying is the NHL isn't predictable. Edmonton has insane C depth with McDavid/Drai. Toronto with Matthews/Tavares. We had Duchene/Staz/ROR etc. It takes everything or lots of momentum atleast. Look at ROR in Buffalo without a 1D like Pie. He's not winning shit.

IMO I think Tampa could have won without Kuch last year, and they basically won without Stamkos. You have to have multiple pieces and they have to be good, but there are pieces that are basically non-negotiable... 1-2C (and 3C is becoming more important) 1D and 1G. You can get away with other strengths, but those pieces are key.

Typically, if a wing is clearly your best player, you don't win Cups. A big part of that today is the modern cap world. Top end wings demand more money than 1D and just under 1C... yet their impact on the game is typically lower than both. Once you get good, cap space becomes a priority and that extra pay over more impactful players causes issues. IMO it is better to split 12m with 7m to 2C and 5m to 3C than 12m to 1W (like Panarin).

I wouldn't say Edmonton had insane center depth... the had McDavid and Drai with some 4th line guys (and Drai plays wing a lot). Same with Matthews/Tavares. To have insane center depth you need a strong 1-2-3 rotation in today's NHL. Tampa, Washington, and Pittsburgh all had strong center rotations. Chicago has always been solid (even in their weakest year they have Richards and Vermette as 2-3s with Kruger as the 4). LA was really strong down the middle with Kopi, Carter and Richards. You just don't win without center depth, and your 1C or 1D better be your best player.

 

[Foppa2118]

St Louis had the same 1-2-3C and the same 1G last year as they did when they won the Cup.

They lost their 1D in Pietrangelo which made them a shell of themselves and they got swept by the Avs in the 1st round, even though the Avs supposedly don't have good center depth.

 

[Pokecheque]

St Louis had the same 1-2-3C and the same 1G last year as they did when they won the Cup.

They lost their 1D in Pietrangelo which made them a shell of themselves and they got swept by the Avs in the 1st round, even though the Avs supposedly don't have good center depth.

St. Loo's run will always be a bit of an anomaly. They were literally the worst team in the NHL on December 31st, 2018, and then, after trying out a new goalie and firing the head coach, they went on the run to end all runs. Even Schwartz was relatively bad the entire regular season and then became a friggin' beast in the playoffs.

But also, Armstrong was (apparently) wise to bet one last time on that core. Schenn was right at the tail end of his prime in 2018-19, and since then he's entered a pretty steep decline. With him and O'Reilly manning the 1-2 spots up the middle, Bozak merely needed to be adequate. If anything, Army made the team stronger up the middle by merely swapping out Stastny in favor of O'Reilly, and that IMO was a huge upgrade.

But really...are we seriously arguing the Avs do have depth up the middle? Because they don't.

 

[Foppa2118]

St. Loo's run will always be a bit of an anomaly. They were literally the worst team in the NHL on December 31st, 2018, and then, after trying out a new goalie and firing the head coach, they went on the run to end all runs. Even Schwartz was relatively bad the entire regular season and then became a friggin' beast in the playoffs.

But also, Armstrong was (apparently) wise to bet one last time on that core. Schenn was right at the tail end of his prime in 2018-19, and since then he's entered a pretty steep decline. With him and O'Reilly manning the 1-2 spots up the middle, Bozak merely needed to be adequate. If anything, Army made the team stronger up the middle by merely swapping out Stastny in favor of O'Reilly, and that IMO was a huge upgrade.

But really...are we seriously arguing the Avs do have depth up the middle? Because they don't.

We're arguing that the concern over the Avs center depth, and that it's the most important thing, is vastly overblown.

So is the importance of the 3C, as if it can sink a team with inarguably one of the best 1-2 combos in the league, with MacKinnon-Kadri, and inarguably one of, if not the best D core's in the league with one of, if not the best 1D.

 

[Pokecheque]

We're arguing that the concern over the Avs center depth, and that it's the most important thing, is vastly overblown.

So is the importance of the 3C, as if it can sink a team with inarguably one of the best 1-2 combos in the league, with MacKinnon-Kadri, and inarguably one of, if not the best D core's in the league with one of, if not the best 1D.

I'm pretty sure the lack of depth up the middle (which has led to the over-reliance on Jost and Compher every single postseason the last four years) is the biggest reason the Avs have bowed out in the 2nd round three seasons in a row.

I definitely do not think MacKinnon/Kadri is one of the best 1-2 combos in the league. Kadri is at best a low-end 2C, and he's wildly inconsistent. If he can find his form from the previous season/postseason, OR Newhook turns out to be better in that 2C position, then the Avs will most definitely reap the benefits.

But yes, the lack of a proper 3C meant that MacKinnon and Kadri had to bring their respective A games in the postseason. Not just one of them, both. Obviously Kadri didn't, and then he got suspended. That left the depth chart MacKinnon/Compher/Jost/Bellemare, and that was never gonna cut it.

Basically the Avs really needed to find an upgrade to Kadri, or find a better 3C than Jost to fill in whenever Kadri hit a slump or otherwise was unavailable. The Avs did neither, and they paid the price.