Tkachuk4MVP
32 Years of Fail
This is a great point. Chiarelli, Brian freakin Burke, etc. Meanwhile guys like Poille and Yzerman are still Cup-less.
The Beatification of Doug Wilson
- Thread starter Beethovens 10th
- Start date
This is a great point. Chiarelli, Brian freakin Burke, etc. Meanwhile guys like Poille and Yzerman are still Cup-less.
That's pretty much the dumbest way to live life.
Dougie is hands down amongst the greatest GMs in Hockey. McPhee in Vegas is definitely raising some eyebrows (man, did he finds some immense hidden talent and with the karlsson extension under 6M per, he is impressive), but Dougie has put together teams that have competed for the cup every year for 15 years, missing the PO's once. The highest pick he's had since 2004 is #9, once. Other than that, 12th in 2005 (traded up to 8 for seto) or 13th in 2007 (traded up to #9 for cooch). He has had the lowest draft position of anyone and the greatest playoff making record of anyone, most wins(or nearly), most PO series wins (I think) since he took the helm.
We forget how much chicago sucked before they were good. We forget that Pitt was terribad for a while and got 100% lucky in the 2005 lottery for crosby which transformed them. LA has had a bunch of terrible years. Edmonton has picked first a bunch and still sucks. Dougie has taken a traditionally unattractive place to play in some out of the way non-hockey spot like SJ (compared to Tor, MTL, NYC, DET, etc) and made it a destination for the leagues top players. He has traded shrewdly forever, signed very few bad deals (and no major bad deals), drafted well late, found off the radar free agent europeans, and just year after year, crafted rosters that have legit chances to win. Under any other GM, the sharks would need an extended rebuild to move past the jumbo-patty-boyle era. But with Wilson, that transition was pretty damn smooth. Now it looks like pavs may move on, and they still have a possible cup roster without him.
Yes, they have never won a cup, but they came within two games, and did so without the advantage of any top picks (unlike pitt that had multiple top 5 picks to create a team with crosby, malkin, fleury, etc)
All you can ask is to ice a competitive team every year that is fun to watch and then hope that they finally win one. They have two norris winners on the blueline forever. They have a super 1-2 at center with cooch-hertl and two 30 goal scoring wingers to boot. They have a deep pipeline of possible NHL forwards coming up this year.
Judging a GM exclusively by a cup is wrong. If the sharks are dead last in the league for 5 straight years, their chance of a cup go way up with 5 top 3 picks, particularly true in a cap era where elite talent on ELC's is extremely helpful. I judge a GM by making shrewd moves, finding gems that other teams don't, and competing every year for a cup. In those areas (trades, draft, Euro FA's, competing annually), dougie is unmatched.
We forget how much chicago sucked before they were good. We forget that Pitt was terribad for a while and got 100% lucky in the 2005 lottery for crosby which transformed them. LA has had a bunch of terrible years. Edmonton has picked first a bunch and still sucks. Dougie has taken a traditionally unattractive place to play in some out of the way non-hockey spot like SJ (compared to Tor, MTL, NYC, DET, etc) and made it a destination for the leagues top players. He has traded shrewdly forever, signed very few bad deals (and no major bad deals), drafted well late, found off the radar free agent europeans, and just year after year, crafted rosters that have legit chances to win. Under any other GM, the sharks would need an extended rebuild to move past the jumbo-patty-boyle era. But with Wilson, that transition was pretty damn smooth. Now it looks like pavs may move on, and they still have a possible cup roster without him.
Yes, they have never won a cup, but they came within two games, and did so without the advantage of any top picks (unlike pitt that had multiple top 5 picks to create a team with crosby, malkin, fleury, etc)
All you can ask is to ice a competitive team every year that is fun to watch and then hope that they finally win one. They have two norris winners on the blueline forever. They have a super 1-2 at center with cooch-hertl and two 30 goal scoring wingers to boot. They have a deep pipeline of possible NHL forwards coming up this year.
Judging a GM exclusively by a cup is wrong. If the sharks are dead last in the league for 5 straight years, their chance of a cup go way up with 5 top 3 picks, particularly true in a cap era where elite talent on ELC's is extremely helpful. I judge a GM by making shrewd moves, finding gems that other teams don't, and competing every year for a cup. In those areas (trades, draft, Euro FA's, competing annually), dougie is unmatched.
Anomie2029
Registered User
DW has done an amazing job, but with one big flaw - he holds onto coaches that can't succeed for too long. Did it with TMac, and is doing it with PDB.
It was clear in December 2018 that PDB could not take potentially the best Sharks roster to the final, yet he stood by him.
It was clear in December 2018 that PDB could not take potentially the best Sharks roster to the final, yet he stood by him.
Bowie22
blow it up
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
If I were to point out the 2 big flaws in DW are:
- Holding on to coaches too long
- Giving bottom-6 players like Sorensen and Karlsson term and high AAV. Before that it was Burish.
Mine would be if he missed out on a player earlier in there careers he will grab them later at the end of there careers. By that point though no other team wants them and they are past there expiry dates.
The only one this worked for was bringing in rob blake and even then he wasn't even close to as good as he once was. Just usually a future hall of famer will still look semi good at the end of there careers.
The JT Express
Registered User
Add the Labanc $1 million / "1 year" (wink wink) bridge contract to his list of miracles. And people want to fire this guy?
The Ice Hockey Dude
Ack! Thbbft!
Not me.
That Lebanc signed this says allot about how he / players feel about DW / Sharks, and i'm sure
Lebanc will get a hudge deal next summer.
The Labanc deal made me change my vote. Forget the waiting period, we're witnessing miracles!
Le Rosbeef
Registered User
- Jul 27, 2007
- 3,502
- 975
As far as GMs go, he's doing everything we could reasonably want from him. His track record when he smashes it is outstanding - no GM is perfect but I wouldn't swap ours for anyone else at this point!
While I think this team is still a playoff team, I don't feel they are a better team at this point. I'm glad he held on to Karlsson and that's big moving forward but their depth is hurting and unless they change the system to be more conservative and defense-focused, they're going to be wildly inconsistent. I like Chekhovich as a young talent potentially stepping into the lineup but I feel like they're going to try to make Gambrell fit into the lineup and I don't like where their PK is headed losing Braun and running with Heed/Prout in his spot. I also do not have faith in Labanc stepping into a legitimate top six role although he has earned the opportunity.
I'm not letting a good thing here and there override the fact that DW has won zero Cups and that there are some glaring issues that go beyond just the coaching issues he's had. The depth acquisitions are still a problem and his development of prospects isn't great.
I'm not letting a good thing here and there override the fact that DW has won zero Cups and that there are some glaring issues that go beyond just the coaching issues he's had. The depth acquisitions are still a problem and his development of prospects isn't great.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
I don't think that anybody thinks they are a better team at this point. Do you really expect them to do nothing between now and the trade deadline?
Literally nothing? No they obviously still have to make some additions to ice a team but I don't expect a huge acquisition either. Maybe another Nyquist level add but that still doesn't replace what is lost. Granted, a healthy Karlsson for the playoffs makes that matter a lot less. I don't expect a Nyquist level addition between now and the deadline or even two of them to make this team better than what it was last year. They really only get better if Karlsson stays healthy this time around and they play better defense and more consistently.
The Ice Hockey Dude
Ack! Thbbft!
I think we are only a playoff team if we change the overall system we are playing. We need to reduce GA so as to be in the top 10 in the NHL (not the bottom 1/3). GF needs to be in the top 10 also! (we dont' have to be 3rd!) A wildly inconsistent team I don't think can make the playoffs, even if they do they can't go deep. Changes in the coaching staff will have impact on the defensive system, etc. I believe the Ch* dudes, Gambrell, Blichfield and others will all get NHL time to see if they can make up for the production of JP8. The best from camp will get the job, i expect they'll get 10-12 games to see if they can play and produce, if not next prospect up! This will be painful at times due to the mistakes to be made by the players, etc. but also fun to see them work through it and hopefully some one finds success. I'm less concerned about the PK/PP at this point as this can be systems and player commitment to it to some extent. I am concerned that the loss of Brauns contributions to hits and blocks. Prout (and other D) and Brodsnski are more physical players that i hope can contribute. I am also concerned that at the
loss of JP8 in some many ways - off ice leadership, on ice leadership, and his ability to score GW goals, win key face offs, etc.
I agree that depth is an issue on the team, i'm looking for the top players to log more minutes this season. Next year with the freed cap space we can gain more depth. I think the key for this season along with the systems change will be whether or not any of the
forward prospects good enough to play in the NHL - and be trusted for defensive
play as well as offence to a lesser extent. Time will tell, have to see where we are come November / December. If we fall behind look for DW to make a deal!
The bottom line here is we are not as good of a team on paper as last season. We can still compete for the playoffs and blend in some new players with a systems change.
TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Would you say that the difference between a Nyquist level addition and a Kreider/Zucker/Ehlers level addition is significant or is just splitting hairs? Because I do think they will definitely make that level addition before the deadline. Everything they've been doing points to it.
Remember that for all their flaws last year, the team had a legitimate chance to win Remember that for all their flaws last year, the team had a legitimate chance to win up until Karlsson went from 50% to 5%. And outside of Nyquist and maybe Braun, the players that they lost didn't have too much to do with that.
I agree with your assessment of what will make the team better. It's not going to come down to one player unless that player is Connor McDavid. It's going to come down to the team improving the system that they play and some of the comments from DW lead me to believe that they know their system was a problem and that they will try to change things here.
If healthy, I think the personnel is more than adequate for the team to win a Stanley Cup provided that they add one more forward who is a legitimate top line player. I honestly think just re-signing Nyquist would've fit the bill there, but I definitely prefer to make an external acquisition for a better and younger player than Nyquist.
Ehlers I think is splitting hairs. Zucker I think is not the kind of guy they should be pursuing. His playoff track record is trash. Kreider would be a step up and significant enough to make a difference. I just don't think any of them will happen but it is possible.
