Player Discussion The Bad Granlund Phenomenon Part 4 (mod warning post #393)

[sting101]

Except, as I already mentioned, Vegas already traded away a better 4th line player (Leipsic) for an AHLer because they didn't need him. Do you really think a soft, undersized forward like Granlund who isn't really good at anything would get into their lineup? I just don't see it.

It's not going off on my own tangent, it's refuting your nonsensical logic.

Vegas is one of the deepest teams in hockey it's
why they are so good.
Of course Granlund should not make their lineup.
Vegas took every 8th best forward and 4th best D at minimum from their selection of teams.
It's actually a bad team to use as an example

 

[y2kcanucks]

Vegas is one of the deepest teams in hockey it's
why they are so good.
Of course Granlund should not make their lineup.
Vegas took every 8th best forward and 4th best D at minimum from their selection of teams.
It's actually a bad team to use as an example

I was replying to a conversation that asked if Granlund would play on any of the 4 finalists. I wasn't picking them as an example, just responding to another poster suggesting he would crack their lineup.

 

[F A N]

Except, as I already mentioned, Vegas already traded away a better 4th line player (Leipsic) for an AHLer because they didn't need him. Do you really think a soft, undersized forward like Granlund who isn't really good at anything would get into their lineup? I just don't see it.

It's not going off on my own tangent, it's refuting your nonsensical logic.

You are confused. They traded Leipsic to make room for Tatar and because he didn't fit in. For whatever reason, Leipsic couldn't score with the Knights. That doesn't mean Granlund can't.

You are ignoring the fact that getting into the lineup or not getting into the lineup doesn't mean that that player is necessarily a lesser player. Tatar is not the 13th best forward on that team. Clearly there were players who are not as good as him who got into the lineup.

 

[vancityluongo]

Clearly there were players who are not as good as him who got into the lineup.

You know better than the slam dunk coach of the year???

 

[Melvin]

Vegas is one of the deepest teams in hockey it's
why they are so good.
Of course Granlund should not make their lineup.
Vegas took every 8th best forward and 4th best D at minimum from their selection of teams.
It's actually a bad team to use as an example

Is there a playoff team on which granlund would be playing regularly? That was the original question.

 

[sting101]

Is there a playoff team on which granlund would be playing regularly? That was the original question.

Easily....just looking at who is playing for some.

It's kinda a dumb subjective hypothetical to get into though because building a roster has many variables with who fits the composition the coach is looking for as his depth and whether or not Granlund is capable of getting his nose a little dirty and staying engaged to get regular minutes. He's easily talented enough.

 

[y2kcanucks]

You are confused. They traded Leipsic to make room for Tatar and because he didn't fit in. For whatever reason, Leipsic couldn't score with the Knights. That doesn't mean Granlund can't.

You are ignoring the fact that getting into the lineup or not getting into the lineup doesn't mean that that player is necessarily a lesser player. Tatar is not the 13th best forward on that team. Clearly there were players who are not as good as him who got into the lineup.

For whatever reason? The reason is quite simple: he isn't that good. And Granlund is worse, so yeah, it likely means Granlund wouldn't.

 

[Zippgunn]

It's bizarre that the people who like Granlund reference his "20 goal season", or refer to him as a "20 goal scorer".

Despite not having scored 20 goals ever in his career.

First time in this thread. What I find "bizarre" is that Granlund got 32 points in 69 games for us a year ago and even last year (in which he kind of returned to Earth) he was on pace for 19 points which isn't great but it is just about the same scoring pace that super prospect Jake Virtanen has maintained over 3 full seasons and yet Granlund is considered "garbage" by so many here and Jake is fully expected to double his output next year based on his remarkable 5 points in his last 20 games. If Granlund is garbage then so is Jake, no?

 

[CanaFan]

First time in this thread. What I find "bizarre" is that Granlund got 32 points in 69 games for us a year ago and even last year (in which he kind of returned to Earth) he was on pace for 19 points which isn't great but it is just about the same scoring pace that super prospect Jake Virtanen has maintained over 3 full seasons and yet Granlund is considered "garbage" by so many here and Jake is fully expected to double his output next year based on his remarkable 5 points in his last 20 games. If Granlund is garbage then so is Jake, no?

Bit of an age and experience gap between them, eh?

Granlund is 25, Jake will be turning 22. Granlund has played 224 NHL and 85 AHL games, Jake has played 140 and 67 respectively.

Jake is an average but at least useful player at age 21 and has potential to be a bit more than he has shown. Not a lot IMO but he’s definitely on the right side of his development curve.

Granlund may have already peaked and even that peak was pretty “meh”.

So I’d say Granlund being described as “garbage” is fairly accurate, if not a bit unkind. Jake is hardly setting the world on fire but is a healthy distance ahead of Granlund right now.

 

[opendoor]

First time in this thread. What I find "bizarre" is that Granlund got 32 points in 69 games for us a year ago and even last year (in which he kind of returned to Earth) he was on pace for 19 points which isn't great but it is just about the same scoring pace that super prospect Jake Virtanen has maintained over 3 full seasons and yet Granlund is considered "garbage" by so many here and Jake is fully expected to double his output next year based on his remarkable 5 points in his last 20 games. If Granlund is garbage then so is Jake, no?

If Virtanen puts up a 12 point season despite getting 16+ minutes a night and 2nd unit PP time at age 25, I guarantee you he'll be considered garbage too.

 

[Zippgunn]

Bit of an age and experience gap between them, eh?

Granlund is 25, Jake will be turning 22. Granlund has played 224 NHL and 85 AHL games, Jake has played 140 and 67 respectively.

Jake is an average but at least useful player at age 21 and has potential to be a bit more than he has shown. Not a lot IMO but he’s definitely on the right side of his development curve.

Granlund may have already peaked and even that peak was pretty “meh”.

So I’d say Granlund being described as “garbage” is fairly accurate, if not a bit unkind. Jake is hardly setting the world on fire but is a healthy distance ahead of Granlund right now.

Has it occurred to any in the Jake cult that he too may have already peaked? Remember if Jake had proven to be good enough to play a full season in the NHL in his second year then he would have the same amount of games played as Granlund. He has shown no increase in production in 3 years and is one third of his way to an NHL pension. If I had a nickel for every post on this board that says that Jake should score 15 or even 20 goals next year "based on the his play at the end of the season" (where his production remained stuck at 5 points for every 20 games) I could pay my mortgage. Granlund's 19 goals in 69 games is "pretty meh" to you but I'm betting the farm that if Jake were to pull those kind of numbers off next season everybody here would be saying "See I told you he would be fantastic". I'm also betting that if Granlund was from Vancouver nobody here would be calling him "garbage". Context is everything, no?

 

[Zippgunn]

If Virtanen puts up a 12 point season despite getting 16+ minutes a night and 2nd unit PP time at age 25, I guarantee you he'll be considered garbage too.

If Jake missed 47 games (a detail that you conveniently omit) and got 12 points his cult would cut him enough slack to tie up an ocean liner.

 

[CanaFan]

If Jake missed 47 games (a detail that you conveniently omit) and got 12 points his cult would cut him enough slack to tie up an ocean liner.

When did Granlund miss 47 games??

He played 53. Do you think the season is 100 games long?

 

[CanaFan]

Has it occurred to any in the Jake cult that he too may have already peaked? Remember if Jake had proven to be good enough to play a full season in the NHL in his second year then he would have the same amount of games played as Granlund. He has shown no increase in production in 3 years and is one third of his way to an NHL pension. If I had a nickel for every post on this board that says that Jake should score 15 or even 20 goals next year "based on the his play at the end of the season" (where his production remained stuck at 5 points for every 20 games) I could pay my mortgage. Granlund's 19 goals in 69 games is "pretty meh" to you but I'm betting the farm that if Jake were to pull those kind of numbers off next season everybody here would be saying "See I told you he would be fantastic". I'm also betting that if Granlund was from Vancouver nobody here would be calling him "garbage". Context is everything, no?

Maybe but at age 21 it would be an unusual assumption to make, no?

I’m as skeptical as anyone and even I don’t think he’s peaked.

You’re getting all worked up comparing a 24 year old to a 21 year old. It’s flawed to try to compare them without adjusting for age. At Jake’s age Granlund had played 7 games in the NHL. You should compare them on that basis before you get all worked up.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Lol 45 has pages devoted to a 25 year old bottom six forward making 900k. I am not a fan of Granlund but he’s better than the useless scrub they traded for him.

I’m not sure if I would qualify him however. I’d look to deal him for whatever pick they could get for him. This team is loaded with bottom six forwards. Time to thin out the herd.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Lol 45 has pages devoted to a 25 year old bottom six forward making 900k. I am not a fan of Granlund but he’s better than the useless scrub they traded for him.

I’m not sure if I would qualify him however. I’d look to deal him for whatever pick they could get for him. This team is loaded with bottom six forwards. Time to thin out the herd.

I dunno...Granlund could come to camp a new man,..He's always been a tough read...He,like Gaunce,Leipsic,Motte etc are all going to be in a fight for jobs in September.

 

[Nomobo]

When did Granlund miss 47 games??

He played 53. Do you think the season is 100 games long?

He did play 53 games but he played injured for a good number of them.
I’m predicting a 40 point season for him next year if he stays healthy.

 

[Kryten]

I award Doyle with the smartest post in the last three here

 

[CanaFan]

He did play 53 games but he played injured for a good number of them.
I’m predicting a 40 point season for him next year if he stays healthy.

I have a feeling you’ll be making that same bet every year til Granlund is pushing 35.

Remember when we argued about whether Granlund would have a better season than Horvat? Those were good times.

 

[Nomobo]

I have a feeling you’ll be making that same bet every year til Granlund is pushing 35.

Remember when we argued about whether Granlund would have a better season than Horvat? Those were good times.

What can I say? I'm a sucker for the underdog, stems from being a Canuck fan for 45 years.

 

[CanaFan]

What can I say? I'm a sucker for the underdog, stems from being a Canuck fan for 45 years.

I can respect that.

 

[Lindgren]

What can I say? I'm a sucker for the underdog, stems from being a Canuck fan for 45 years.

I'm still holding out hope for Sacha Guimond ...

 

[me2]

You are confused. They traded Leipsic to make room for Tatar and because he didn't fit in. For whatever reason, Leipsic couldn't score with the Knights. That doesn't mean Granlund can't.

Granlund is the antithesis of a Vegas style player.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

What is the pick value for Granlund?

Hargraves hopes he could of fetch a 3rd but a 5th might be more realistic

 

[racerjoe]

I honestly doubt he gets anything. There are better options available for free and most teams have their own guys just like him.