Player Discussion The Bad Granlund Phenomenon Part 4 (mod warning post #393)

[Bleach Clean]

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[NoShowWilly]

what the **** i blocked this **** with 350 or so posts to go and him out for the year. COMEON!

i'll give it a thousand and see if it ever pops up again.

 

[Nucker101]

How is this still a thread? Serious question. He hasn't played in awhile and I think everyone's given their 2 cents on him and the trade.

 

[Bleach Clean]

How is this still a thread? Serious question. He hasn't played in awhile and I think everyone's given their 2 cents on him and the trade.

Last 17 posts of the last thread were made yesterday... Clearly, Granlund is a player that this fan base wants to talk about. For me, I am fascinated by the fact that he gets as much attention as he does.

 

[Nucker101]

Last 17 posts of the last thread were made yesterday... Clearly, Granlund is a player that this fan base wants to talk about. For me, I am fascinated by the fact that he gets as much attention as he does.

Same here, it's pretty amazing. But a lot of it is just going in circles, with people arguing over the same thing again and again. Trying to win an argument that is endless and trying to convince a stubborn group with an opposing view to change their minds.


At least with the Virtanen and Management thread, there's still weekly happenings that allow for new conversations to take place.

 

[TruGr1t]

He's better than Sutter. I'll give home that.

 

[mathonwy]

Last 17 posts of the last thread were made yesterday... Clearly, Granlund is a player that this fan base wants to talk about. For me, I am fascinated by the fact that he gets as much attention as he does.

More like Y2K is a poster that a certain group of posters really want to stick it to.

And Granland is the battleground.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

[NHL2]l[/NHL2]

He's better than Sutter. I'll give home that.

That's like telling a band they are better than Nickelback.

 

[Peter10]

Just curious but for which player (A or B) would you rather trade Shinkaruk for?

Thats all 5on5 stats

 

[Verviticus]

i know who both of those players are but i dont know what your point is - one of them was from waivers

anyways A by a little bit but i probably wouldn't do it off of that information alone

 

[racerjoe]

It is popular cause most threads people just agree we suck. Here no one seems to agree.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

It is popular cause most threads people just agree we suck. Here no one seems to agree.

No for most of the other trades there are clear cut winners and losers. Here we have serious context. Some will argue 19 goals, others will argue 17+ mins to get 30 points isn't a win. Others will say it's on par with 2nd round pick hits and misses, 2 30 point forwards from the 2nd can be considered a win if the team was competitive or even on its way. But others will argue a retooling trade during a pre-rebuild doesn't make a lot of sense, especially for a team who has drafted in the 2nd so little lately and had little to no success other than a promising goalie slow cooking with the only one I remember DimJim actually using.
You're rather a fan of Granlund and the trade because of the positive or you're not a fan of him because of the negatives. Seems to have been a pretty even split with the continual conversation about him.

IMHO comparing the trade win and loss is over. One team got an NHL player albeit well within his years of development already while the other gambled on the younger player with supposed higher upside yet to come close to it. The Canucks win simply for icing a guy over 100 NHL games since the trade and getting about .35-.4 PPG out of him.
I'd argue the same from Bae trade as well, but at least Baertschi has separated himself from the rest of the roster as an actual offensive threat on his own and capable of playing different roles. (A lot of that was on his own development as man though) whereas the other guy was spoon fed opportunities that would make Cody "Godson" Hodgson jealous

 

[Get North]

It'd be funny if we claim Shinkaruk next season if he goes on waivers (which is likely IMO), Flames have a lot of young forwards coming up. I think Emile Poirier and Curtis Lazar would be on waivers too

 

[mathonwy]

 

[TheWolf*]

Just curious but for which player (A or B) would you rather trade Shinkaruk for?

Thats all 5on5 stats

Do we watch games at all anymore or do we just run 5on5 stats and pick the player with the best pts/60?

 

[racerjoe]

Do we watch games at all anymore or do we just run 5on5 stats and pick the player with the best pts/60?

Aren't you doing the same thing as not just st using his goals? Not looks my at how he is getting them and if his 17 percent shooting percentage is repeatable? Watching games and most of the time it is glaringly obvious he doesn't have the compete to be a full player.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Aren't you doing the same thing as not just st using his goals? Not looks my at how he is getting them and if his 17 percent shooting percentage is repeatable? Watching games and most of the time it is glaringly obvious he doesn't have the compete to be a full player.

Is he improving? If yes when does he stop improving? He has similiar stats at same age as brother is it impossible he improves to close to that level? I do not know where he ends up but a progressing player should not be underrated.

 

[TheWolf*]

Aren't you doing the same thing as not just st using his goals? Not looks my at how he is getting them and if his 17 percent shooting percentage is repeatable? Watching games and most of the time it is glaringly obvious he doesn't have the compete to be a full player.

I just don't agree with you. Not in the least. I think there is a place for both advanced stats, but not in isolation, which is what the post I was referring to proposed.

I don't agree with you about Granlund either. I don't see how it is "glaringly obvious" that he does not have the compete to be a "full player." Just a lot of buzz phrase crocks of crap to me. The guy potted 20 goals in his first full NHL season where he was given a chance to play.

It's not just me that has a high opinion of the guy either. He was widely regarded as having had a very good season, outside these boards. I mean, most of the rank and file haters here like Botchford, right? He loves the guy. Is Botchford missing the glaringly obvious lack of compete that you so clearly noted?

 

[racerjoe]

Is he improving? If yes when does he stop improving? He has similiar stats at same age as brother is it impossible he improves to close to that level? I do not know where he ends up but a progressing player should not be underrated.

He hasn't improved. Same to worse ppg he is just playing more minutes now.

I just don't agree with you. Not in the least. I think there is a place for both advanced stats, but not in isolation, which is what the post I was referring to proposed.

I don't agree with you about Granlund either. I don't see how it is "glaringly obvious" that he does not have the compete to be a "full player." Just a lot of buzz phrase crocks of crap to me. The guy potted 20 goals in his first full NHL season where he was given a chance to play.

It's not just me that has a high opinion of the guy either. He was widely regarded as having had a very good season, outside these boards. I mean, most of the rank and file haters here like Botchford, right? He loves the guy. Is Botchford missing the glaringly obvious lack of compete that you so clearly noted?

I would say yes you Botch and whoever else watches and sees a solid two way player is seeing his goal totals and not watching the rest of his play.

 

[mathonwy]

I just don't agree with you. Not in the least. I think there is a place for both advanced stats, but not in isolation, which is what the post I was referring to proposed.

I don't agree with you about Granlund either. I don't see how it is "glaringly obvious" that he does not have the compete to be a "full player." Just a lot of buzz phrase crocks of crap to me. The guy potted 20 goals in his first full NHL season where he was given a chance to play.

It's not just me that has a high opinion of the guy either. He was widely regarded as having had a very good season, outside these boards. I mean, most of the rank and file haters here like Botchford, right? He loves the guy. Is Botchford missing the glaringly obvious lack of compete that you so clearly noted?

Ya know...

Citing opinions of players from OUTSIDE the Canuck fanbase when talking about a Canuck player doesn't exactly strengthen whatever your case is. Nobody in their right mind would EVER choose to watch Canuck hockey with the type of intense focus a Canuck fan does these days (if they had a choice) because frankly, Canuck hockey is boring as **** and is the opposite of entertaining.

And neither does seemingly disregarding the feedback on a player by highly knowledgeable Canuck fans (some of which are biased but many more who are not) because of whatever your reasons are.

And exactly what has Botchford done for you to disregard HIS opinion?



Scored 20 goals. Buzz phrase crocks of crap. Non-Canuck fans have high opinion of him.

These are the premises that you are using to discount Granlund's advanced statistics and to defend Granlund with?

You might as well save everyone some time and say, "you are wrong and I am right, end of discussion."

 

[PG Canuck]

Seriously wondering how the coaching change will play into Granlund's season next year.

 

[valkynax]

I'll admit, I'm gonna go from hating Granlund's guts to indifference now.

Let's see if he can sustain his production next season.

 

[Kryten]

With the Sedins all year, 40 points. With Sutter all year, 20

 

[Nucker101]

Is he improving? If yes when does he stop improving? He has similiar stats at same age as brother is it impossible he improves to close to that level? I do not know where he ends up but a progressing player should not be underrated.

His sh% will not be repeatable, but his on-ice sh% suggests that his assist totals should have been higher so it's not unreasonable to expect similar P/60 production from him again next year.

 

[Petrichor]

Best part about Granlund is his contract and cap. That's the reason I will protect him for now.