OT: The Avalounge: Mmm... Steamed Yams!

[Foppa2118]

I don't really understand the obsession with opening the schools back up.

They don't really know how much children are driving transmission because they haven't been testing children. So there's no way to know how much they're spreading it.

Just open the schools that are in cities/counties that are in good shape, and hold off on opening schools that are in areas that are in bad shape. It's not that complicated.

Is it really going to alter a child or teenagers life, if they have to do online classes for another semester or two at most? We can't just make everything normal right now. It's not normal, we have to make temporary changes.

Just take some of that money that was going to go towards building the proper infrastructure for schools to reopen "safely" in badly hit areas, and distribute it among parents that claimed dependents on their taxes. This will help them afford extra childcare and meals at home.

 

[Foppa2118]

The dig in on schools is one of things that doesn’t make sense. Kids don’t typically get very sick and they are not known to be major drivers of transmission. We have a lot of data to support that normalization.
"I’m an epidemiologist and a dad. Here’s why I think schools should reopen."

That's not exactly true. There isn't enough data right now for them to know how much children are spreading the disease, because children haven't been tested anywhere near as much as other age categories.

They also shut down the schools a long time ago so they don't have any data on how much children being at school contributes to community spread. Though the NIH just started a study among 2000 families to try and get more information on how the virus spreads from children to their families.

It's complicated by the fact that the US administration is cherry picking quotes and data sets to make it suit their narrative that everything is going back to normal, and schools should reopen. Like the White House citing Dr Redfield from the CDC saying "we don't have evidence that children are driving the transmission."

Well you don't have the "evidence" because you don't have the data.


Dr. Debbie Birx - Coronavirus Response Coordinator for White House Task Force

“I think it really comes to the evidence base of what do we have as far as testing in children,” Birx said Wednesday, addressing a question about whether kids spread the virus. “So if you look across all of the tests that we’ve done, and when we have the age, the portion that has been the lowest tested portion is the under-10-year-olds.”

“Remember, early on, we said test if you have symptoms and now we know that if you’re under 18, the majority of you don’t have symptoms,” Birx said, explaining the lack of data on children in the U.S. “Our data is skewed originally to people with symptoms, and then skewed to adults over 18, so we are looking very closely into that category by using our antibody test.”

Dr. Jeffrey Kahn - Chief of Pediatric Infectious Disease at UT Southwestern Medical Center

Dr. Jeffrey Kahn, chief of Pediatric Infectious Disease at UT Southwestern Medical Center, told NBC DFW in a July 3 interview that children are able to contract and transmit the virus.

“We know that children should be less prone to severe disease and viral infections, that’s not to say children can’t get sick,” he said. “We’ve had many examples of children getting sick. We also know that children can spread the virus and not be symptomatic.”

Dr. Scott Gottlieb - Former head of the FDA

Balance of data clearly shows they’re less likely to become infected and less likely to transmit infection. But IMHO we need to have humility on this question and recognize we don’t fully understand all the risks; and while kids are less vulnerable, less risk doesn’t mean no risk

Dr. Anthony Fauci - Director of NIH and member of White House Task Force

In congressional testimony on June 30, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, addressed questions around children and the coronavirus. "We don't really know, exactly, what the efficiency of spread is" among children. The NIH, Fauci mentioned, is currently studying 2,000 families to understand the rate of infection for children and "how often they infect their families."

CDC director says there's no data children drive coronavirus spread — but the U.S. isn't testing many kids

Fact-check: Can children contract, transmit the coronavirus?

Fact check: What role do kids play in spreading the coronavirus? - CNNPolitics

 

[dahrougem2]

Is it really going to alter a child or teenagers life, if they have to do online classes for another semester or two at most? We can't just make everything normal right now. It's not normal, we have to make temporary changes.

You can't say this so nonchalantly, though, because it absolutely is going to alter a child or teenagers life. These are prime development and educational years that they're missing out on.

I taught over 150 students at my junior high in grades 7 and 8, and there was probably a good 40-50 students that either didn't know how to work online, or straight up didn't do anything whatsoever and we're talking three months of zero work being completed. That has a huge affect on kids.

Then there's the lack of environment. No friends to be around, no classroom to be in for the regular 8 hours per day. No lunch time shenanigans. No field trips. No school sports teams or student clubs. No one-on-one time with teachers for assistance. No in-person reassurance in the classroom when lessons are being delivered. I can't tell you how many students just need that look of approval while I'm teaching to let them know that they are, in fact, getting it. They don't have that anymore.

So yes, it is going to alter their lives in a very negative way. If schools are to shut down for a full school year, and re-open in 2021 for example, they'll have gone 18 months without regular school. That can't happen.

 

[Metallo]

I found a place that sells potatoe doughnuts and that shit is dope.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I haven't been able to post on this site in months because the browser page is broken, anyone else having issues? Only works on my phone.

 

[Frenchy]

I haven't been able to post on this site in months because the browser page is broken, anyone else having issues? Only works on my phone.

I sent you a PM , read your inbox

 

[UncleRisto]

The new Ford Bronco looks kinda rad.

You should get one if you're thinking about killing your ex-wife.

 

[Foppa2118]

You can't say this so nonchalantly, though, because it absolutely is going to alter a child or teenagers life. These are prime development and educational years that they're missing out on.

I taught over 150 students at my junior high in grades 7 and 8, and there was probably a good 40-50 students that either didn't know how to work online, or straight up didn't do anything whatsoever and we're talking three months of zero work being completed. That has a huge affect on kids.

Then there's the lack of environment. No friends to be around, no classroom to be in for the regular 8 hours per day. No lunch time shenanigans. No field trips. No school sports teams or student clubs. No one-on-one time with teachers for assistance. No in-person reassurance in the classroom when lessons are being delivered. I can't tell you how many students just need that look of approval while I'm teaching to let them know that they are, in fact, getting it. They don't have that anymore.

So yes, it is going to alter their lives in a very negative way. If schools are to shut down for a full school year, and re-open in 2021 for example, they'll have gone 18 months without regular school. That can't happen.

I have to disagree strongly with this. Is it possible you may be a bit biased as a teacher? I mean what quantifiable effect do you think it really has for a child not to do homework for three months? Are they going to turn into idiot adults?

Because over the course of my life I have met countless people who are complete idiots that did well in school, and conversely some extremely intelligent people that did poorly in school. I've met countless people who didn't do well in school, but are some of the most informed people on earth because there's so many ways to "learn" or gather information now.

An extra few months off from doing schoolwork isn't going to have a meaningful effect on how smart someone is, how much they adjust to society, or much they're able to learn.

And I don't know if you've noticed, but teenagers aren't exactly isolating themselves. They're hanging out with each other seemingly just as much, and in just as big of groups as they did before. Almost always without masks but that's a side point. So the no friends, field trips, school sports, student clubs thing is really not a big deal at all IMO.

Maybe things have changed now, but I don't remember any in-person reassurance in the classroom, or looks of approval from any of my teachers. You might be in the minority if you are making that much of an effort for your students. Children miss school for months every year though during the summer and winter, and they get by fine without those things.

Of all the things that can have a negative impact on a child's life, extending their summer essentially for an extra semester or two at most is waaaaaaaaaaaaay down the list IMO. I'm pretty sure I'd be the exact same person I am today if that happened to me when I was young.

I might even be a tad smarter if I had some extra time when I was young to learn about the subjects/employment avenues I actually enjoy, and have a bit more character having to go through the adversity of having to adapt to times like this when I was younger.

Think about the sacrifices people and children/schools had to make during WWII. Not just in the US but all over the world. It's not like kids were getting their regular courses in France when it was getting fire bombed to hell. This brief moment in time pales so much in comparison to that. The kids are going to be just fine.

This isn't going to last forever either. Or in all cities. They just need to be cautious with certain cities that are hot spots, until some therapies and hopefully a vaccine comes around towards the end of the year.

 

[UncleRisto]

I don't even know where to begin, so I won't.

 

[Avsboy]

Call be a cabin-dwelling nut job, but home schooling can be better if one parent can stay home. No bullying, no teachers picking favorites, comprehensive lessons tailored to the student. Having an online component from school, and then having a dedicated parent go over it with a child, can make a child think better.

As for the "intelligence" debate, there are studies that show that quality early childhood education makes you smarter. That's as a baby. I don't think missing some school time in high school will make a child dumber, but it might not give them some needed subject material if a parent isn't dedicated to helping the child.

 

[UncleRisto]

Three months is like a third of a school year. If a student effectively misses three months of schooling due to their special needs, truancy, socioeconomic problems or other factors, by far the highest risk of completely and even further f***ing up cumulative subjects is faced by students who are the least equipped to deal with it, and who are already at the biggest disadvantage.

 

[Foppa2118]

Three months is like a third of a school year. If a student effectively misses three months of schooling due to their special needs, truancy, socioeconomic problems or other factors, by far the highest risk of completely and even further f***ing up cumulative subjects is faced by students who are the least equipped to deal with it, and who are already at the biggest disadvantage.

In normal times, if a student misses three months of school or has truancy problems, it's because of problems they have at home, or in their lives already. There aren't many children in happy loving families that are missing school at a young age.

I also don't remember any children that had these kind of problems when I was younger, that became happier, smarter, and good standing citizens because the experience of school made it better for them. I'm sure it happened to a very small percentage but the vast majority are troubled kids, and it takes something outside of school to help them.

Lots of kids skip entire grades of school too and no one bats an eye. Children also sacrifice an extra month or two of schooling when they take expedited classes during the summer that cram a full semester or two into a couple months.

Those kids you're referring to with socioeconomic problems and truancy issues need help at home not at school. The kids missing an extra three months during the pandemic aren't living the same life as them.

 

[UncleRisto]

I hope for the sake of your education system that these are not views of anyone even remotely dealing with schooling, because let's just all not go then.

 

[Foppa2118]

I hope for the sake of your education system that these are not views of anyone even remotely dealing with schooling, because let's just all not go then.

You compared kids with truancy problems to kids missing school due to COVID. Those are two entirely different situations with entirely different impacts because the situations are so different.

I'm not talking about the lack of impact that never going to school would have on children in general.

I'm talking about the lack of impact a handful of cities missing an extra three months of school would have.

 

[Foppa2118]

I feel like this subject is being looked at as if kids won't ever return to school. Or we're talking about missing another year or two during an important development period for younger people. Or that this would be a country wide mandate.

We're talking about extending summer break an extra few months at most (will probably be much shorter for some cities that improve) for a few cities that are hot spots for COVID. This isn't normal times, some sacrifices have to be made.

Compare this to WWII where schools in Europe were bombed, children had to evacuate their homes, and many never returned to school. The ones that were able to continue their education had to spend large portions of their school day doing gas mask drills and hiding in trenches outside when the air raids went off.

Most families in Britain had to move to rural areas. It's estimated that 1 in 5 schools were bombed and over a millions students went without schooling. All of these kids lost their school medical inspections and meals too.

Add on top of this, the ability of kids in Europe to actually retain the information they were being taught in school was probably close to nill, because they were constantly being told what to do if the Germans were to invade. I read one story from someone who said if their school's church bells rang, that meant the Germans were invading, and they were supposed to run home. That was in their head every day at school.

In the US, a large portion of the funding for public schools was diverted to fighting the war. Many smaller school had to close forcing kids to go to larger public schools further away. There was a serious lack of teachers available because many of the men were called to fight the war. They had to bring in large numbers of retired teachers and allow married women to teach which was forbidden in many places. High School dropouts increased by over a million in just the first two years of the war.

Those are the kind of situations where children's lives are altered and the lack of schooling has an impact because of the sacrifices made during tough times.

The kids in the handful of COVID hotspots that may be asked to stay on summer break an extra few months at most will be just fine.

 

[UncleRisto]

You compared kids with truancy problems to kids missing school due to COVID. Those are two entirely different situations with entirely different impacts because the situations are so different.

I'm not talking about the lack of impact that never going to school would have on children in general.

I'm talking about the lack of impact a handful of cities missing an extra three months of school would have.

No I didn't compare truancy problems to Covid, I said kids with truancy problems are at an even larger risk of doing nothing for months, or even basically dropping out.

The kids in the handful of COVID hotspots that may be asked to stay on summer break an extra few months at most will be just fine.

Sure, for the most part, but surely you understand that educators can't just take this stance.

 

[Foppa2118]

No I didn't compare truancy problems to Covid, I said kids with truancy problems are at an even larger risk of doing nothing for months, or even basically dropping out.

Ok I understand what you’re saying now.

I can see how that may be a concern but do we actually know that asking kids to do online classes for their first semester will lead to that many more drop outs? I think we might just be speculating on that. Summer and winter break give kids plenty of opportunity to never come back if that’s what they want to do.

Perhaps some but to a meaningful degree where it’s more important than potentially risking public safety during a pandemic?

We’re in pretty uncharted territories here, and I feel like if I told a kid who was thinking of dropping out, that he could finish the school year, or graduate by only going to school for one semester, I think he might go back and finish.

Sure, for the most part, but surely you understand that educators can't just take this stance.

I mean they’d be unlikely to phrase it like I did publicly sure, but I imagine there would be lots of teachers who would be opposed to returning to school on time for flu season to hit, if they were already in a COVID hot spot, and we still didn’t have any reliable studies showing that kids don’t contribute to community spread.

I’m not trying to say that school is worthless by the way, believe me. I have plenty of schooling and believe that education and the pursuit of knowledge is probably the most important thing someone can do to improve their life. All areas of life too, not just their career.

 

[UncleRisto]

I don't even know where to begin, so I won't.

I lied, lol.

Ok I understand what you’re saying now.

I can see how that may be a concern but do we actually know that asking kids to do online classes for their first semester will lead to that many more drop outs? I think we might just be speculating on that. Summer and winter break give kids plenty of opportunity to never come back if that’s what they want to do.

For kids young enough with the right combination of problems it will, maybe not dropouts per se, but there have been reports of kids basically not reporting the whole time even in Finland (where it's a much smaller scale). The unfortunate thing about negative experiences in schooling is that they accumulate, and while you may not be able to point out what amount of ducking schoolwork is too much, you wouldn't want to ignore it, let's say, either.

Perhaps some but to a meaningful degree where it’s more important than potentially risking public safety during a pandemic?

Now, some of the discrepancy here is caused by different covid situations, for sure. Let's hope it doesn't really rebound here but it certainly could.

We’re in pretty uncharted territories here, and I feel like if I told a kid who was thinking of dropping out, that he could finish the school year, or graduate by only going to school for one semester, I think he might go back and finish.

For a certain demographic I reckon. Like teens just about to finish vocational school, or middle school if they aren't acutely in danger of marginalization. But even this is a situation that requires professional ability from teachers.

I mean they’d be unlikely to phrase it like I did publicly sure, but I imagine there would be lots of teachers who would be opposed to returning to school on time for flu season to hit, if they were already in a COVID hot spot, and we still didn’t have any reliable studies showing that kids don’t contribute to community spread.

I’m not trying to say that school is worthless by the way, believe me. I have plenty of schooling and believe that education and the pursuit of knowledge is probably the most important thing someone can do to improve their life. All areas of life too, not just their career.

For people responsible for arranging education services, and thus also know the theoretical risk factors, it's not as simple of a question as you're making it out to be. Now, it's common for people to undercut K12 education - I don't mean to say you're doing it, and I wouldn't blame you if you did - this has often raised its head when discussing expenditure cuts and in societal views that see kindergarten and primary school primarily as a kid storage enabling parents to work. But the reason educators will bark at claims like that is we've spent years studying educational theory and educational psychology. Those works have very clearly told us about risks to future employment and education, to mental health, to social inclusion, to counteracting socioeconomic barriers and overcoming problems in the family. Of course I'm not saying all that will happen.

Special educators for example are aware that a vast majority of students will perform worse than average or at a certain point not even really work at all, but educational theory will still tell us that school attendance can decrease the need for future psychiatric care placements, or whatever. Now of course, the covid situation can't just be neglected, but just like with the emphasis that is placed on early detection of learning difficulties or medical conditions, it's in the teachers' best interest to emphasize the minimization of risks that are associated with missed schooltime. And of course it's teachers speaking for their own profession as well.

 

[Foppa2118]

I lied, lol.

For kids young enough with the right combination of problems it will, maybe not dropouts per se, but there have been reports of kids basically not reporting the whole time even in Finland (where it's a much smaller scale). The unfortunate thing about negative experiences in schooling is that they accumulate, and while you may not be able to point out what amount of ducking schoolwork is too much, you wouldn't want to ignore it, let's say, either.


Now, some of the discrepancy here is caused by different covid situations, for sure. Let's hope it doesn't really rebound here but it certainly could.


For a certain demographic I reckon. Like teens just about to finish vocational school, or middle school if they aren't acutely in danger of marginalization. But even this is a situation that requires professional ability from teachers.


For people responsible for arranging education services, and thus also know the theoretical risk factors, it's not as simple of a question as you're making it out to be. Now, it's common for people to undercut K12 education - I don't mean to say you're doing it, and I wouldn't blame you if you did - this has often raised its head when discussing expenditure cuts and in societal views that see kindergarten and primary school primarily as a kid storage enabling parents to work. But the reason educators will bark at claims like that is we've spent years studying educational theory and educational psychology. Those works have very clearly told us about risks to future employment and education, to mental health, to social inclusion, to counteracting socioeconomic barriers and overcoming problems in the family. Of course I'm not saying all that will happen.

Special educators for example are aware that a vast majority of students will perform worse than average or at a certain point not even really work at all, but educational theory will still tell us that school attendance can decrease the need for future psychiatric care placements, or whatever. Now of course, the covid situation can't just be neglected, but just like with the emphasis that is placed on early detection of learning difficulties or medical conditions, it's in the teachers' best interest to emphasize the minimization of risks that are associated with missed schooltime. And of course it's teachers speaking for their own profession as well.

I would agree with basically all of this. I just don't believe having kids in a few cities do online classes another semester at most, would lead to the analogous situations you bring up.

And many of the concerns you bring up I think could be solved by expediting school courses like they do every year during summer, or just asking kids in those handful of hot spots to sacrifice a bit of their summer, so they can extend the school year a bit to make up some of what they missed. They've had a pretty long summer this year anyway.

 

[UncleRisto]

Any tips for Switch games?

 

[Papa Francouz]

Any tips for Switch games?

What type of games are you interested in? And what do you already have?

 

[UncleRisto]

What type of games are you interested in? And what do you already have?

Well, I'm not all that picky on the genre, I play this baseball game, and Burnout, and some kids' platformers, and I have Civilization. I don't know. I like games that are easy to get into and easy to put down. Also I get stressed out playing online.

 

[Muffin]

Holy **** is this site unusable without ad block, I've seen pornsites with less ads.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Holy **** is this site unusable without ad block, I've seen pornsites with less ads.

I love the passive aggressive button you have to click to continue using you’re Adblock lol.

 

[MonsterMack]

I was so fed up with the ads that I caved a while back and payed the small amount to become a sponsor. I figured I spend enough time here and the mobile ads were killing me