News Article: The Athletic on Detroit's "Contract Efficiency"

[Hammettf2b]

Average save % in the NHL by year:

14-15 - .915%
15-16 - .915%
16-17 - .913%
17-18 - .912%
18-19 - .910%

So that’s 4 of the last 5 years he was below average in save percentage. He plays in front of a trash defense, but I don’t see him holding up well in a stats-based argument using the last 5 years.

He's right around those numbers. He also has years where he beats the average in GAA% in that timepspan. The argument is that he was not grossly overpayed at 5.4 mil let alone his whole career where he has better numbers.

 

[Hockeyville19Calumet]

Average save % in the NHL by year:

14-15 - .915%
15-16 - .915%
16-17 - .913%
17-18 - .912%
18-19 - .910%

So that’s 4 of the last 5 years he was below average in save percentage. He plays in front of a trash defense, but I don’t see him holding up well in a stats-based argument using the last 5 years.

To me Save Pct is the true goalie stat. GAA is more of a team stat. IMO

 

[TCNorthstars]

Don't really need statistics to show this team has bad contracts. Any time you have a GM that was willing to trade away picks (when you should be rebuilding) to remove only 1 year of 7 million in cap on your non-contending team so you can make room for long term mediocrity as a replacement, you are going to have bad contracts. The only reason its still a topic though is those bad contracts crowded out pieces that might have been nice to still have or have traded for futures and many of these terrible contracts are still on the books handcuffing the process.

Holland didn't trade away picks to get rid of Datsyuk though.

 

[Retire91]

Holland didn't trade away picks to get rid of Datsyuk though.

He moved down in the draft tomato potato

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Don't really need statistics to show this team has bad contracts. Any time you have a GM that was willing to trade away picks (when you should be rebuilding) to remove only 1 year of 7 million in cap on your non-contending team so you can make room for long term mediocrity as a replacement, you are going to have bad contracts. The only reason its still a topic though is those bad contracts crowded out pieces that might have been nice to still have or have traded for futures and many of these terrible contracts are still on the books handcuffing the process.

Why anyone that is still arguing that was a bad trade when it looks like 2 of our top 4 dman likely come from that trade is beyond me. We will see but that honestly might crack Holland's top 10 moves during his HHOF career... Fantastic deal, not sure they have this on every team but would like to see Chychrun's negative value extension on one of these scales. He kind of has to have one I would think looking at our rundown and who is where.

 

[TCNorthstars]

He moved down in the draft tomato potato

And added a 2nd. More like potato kiwi.

 

[RedWingzz]

Larkin at 6.1 for 4 more years is not a B+, that's an A+ and one of the best contracts in the NHL.

Also, AA scores 30 goals while making only 3 million is a B? I don't have the athletic, so maybe I am missing something here, but a 30 goal scorer making only 3 million per year is not a B....

 

[TCNorthstars]

Larkin at 6.1 for 4 more years is not a B+, that's an A+ and one of the best contracts in the NHL.

Also, AA scores 30 goals while making only 3 million is a B? I don't have the athletic, so maybe I am missing something here, but a 30 goal scorer making only 3 million per year is not a B....

Did you read the methodology? I think the AA thing is because he only has 1 more year on his contract. Right on on Larkin!

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Interesting in terms of the difference between Mantha and AA. Curious why Bowey is here and Hronek isn't, but that might be easier when I have more time to read it and I am not on my phone.

 

[Frk It]

This grid is a big part of my concern in terms of Yzerman keeping Ryan Martin.

I was just going to say this illustrates well why we both feel he should be shown the door.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Are you sure you'd like to compare his stats? He's not top 10 during that time frame. So are you still sure? Before I waste my time posting his stats will you acknowledge them?

Yes, show me why its a bad contract. Was he overpaid? Maybe. But by how much? It's not like he was a bad player. He had cold stints after injuries but overall was pretty good. A career 2.55 GAA and .914 SV% is worth 5.4 mil imo. It was what, his 4th contract when it became 5.4 mil? How many other goalies are going to put up better numbers on their 4th contract for under 5.4?

 

[Frk It]

Why anyone that is still arguing that was a bad trade when it looks like 2 of our top 4 dman likely come from that trade is beyond me. We will see but that honestly might crack Holland's top 10 moves during his HHOF career... Fantastic deal, not sure they have this on every team but would like to see Chychrun's negative value extension on one of these scales. He kind of has to have one I would think looking at our rundown and who is where.

I agree that overall we came out very well in that trade.

But if we are going to include the players we got with the draft picks, you have to also include the garbage deals given out with the cap space... no?
Acquiring cap space is the biggest reason why that trade was made, by all accounts.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I was just going to say this illustrates well why we both feel he should be shown the door.

The GM is the front man and ultimately lives with it and the scrutiny. But the person that recommended the salary figure and contract structure is Ryan Martin. He is still here and it does concern me when we discuss things like this. Holland will be the primary target in this thread, Yzerman will be demanded as the savior that addresses it. But in all the shifting outside of maybe our pro scouting our largest problem spot remains in the front office as far as I am concerned. Sorry if I am becoming a broken record on it.

 

[Retire91]

Why anyone that is still arguing that was a bad trade when it looks like 2 of our top 4 dman likely come from that trade is beyond me. We will see but that honestly might crack Holland's top 10 moves during his HHOF career... Fantastic deal, not sure they have this on every team but would like to see Chychrun's negative value extension on one of these scales. He kind of has to have one I would think looking at our rundown and who is where.

you have to also factor the Frans Nielsen contract which wouldn't have been needed if a better option than Weiss was previously signed and ironically both contracts are still on the books in one form or another. Whether or not it worked out is another matter and still needs more time to see, as a rebuilding team, you don't move down just to add long term mediocrity to a team that is not competitive. So if a 2nd round pick is cherrypicked out of this ineptitude to add to his legacy I call a bit of bias.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I agree that overall we came out very well in that trade.

But if we are going to include the players we got with the draft picks, you have to also include the garbage deals given out with the cap space... no?
Acquiring cap space is the biggest reason why that trade was made, by all accounts.

I guess to some degree. Again maybe I will know more when I get a bigger read but asset acquisition was a focus of that while doing it and not just Nielsen. We interpreted the part we found most important but getting the additional second rounder was a huge plus for Holland in the deal. He wanted that pick and you could say he lucked out but it is a part of the picture. Luck is a part of this for sure.

 

[izlez]

So your argument is that wasting money isn't so bad because we didn't really need the money for anything, anyway?

Ummm yes?

Having cap space for the sake of cap space does absolutely nothing for me.
Alternatively, having cap space so we could've given a boatload to Nielsen, Eriksson, AND Backes doesn't do much for me either.

With all of the complaining, we have had some of the bigger UFA signings over the years. We've been in the running for a lot more. SURPRISE, when a player gets to pick from 30 teams, your team doesn't get all of them.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Ummm yes?

Having cap space for the sake of cap space does absolutely nothing for me.
Alternatively, having cap space so we could've given a boatload to Nielsen, Eriksson, AND Backes doesn't do much for me either.

With all of the complaining, we have had some of the bigger UFA signings over the years. We've been in the running for a lot more. SURPRISE, when a player gets to pick from 30 teams, your team doesn't get all of them.

The argument for having capspace was mentioned earlier. Its so you can acquire assets by taking on short cap dumps while you are rebuilding.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Interesting in terms of the difference between Mantha and AA. Curious why Bowey is here and Hronek isn't, but that might be easier when I have more time to read it and I am not on my phone.

Without reading anything other than this post, my bet is ELC vs negotiated second contract.

Kind of hard to grade the team based on the ELC contract that the team is pretty much forced/guaranteed to hand out.

 

[izlez]

Some people here are disappointed that Yzerman has not used the Wings cap space to take on bad contracts from other teams in exchange for prospects and picks. That complaint was never aimed at Holland because there never was any cap space to use. He spent to the limit to put together a basement team.

Had he preserved any cap space, he could've potentially used it to take on a bad contract for picks and prospects. There may not be hard evidence that he missed out on a great free agent or salary dump (there never really would be hard evidence of anything like that) but that doesn't mean it didn't hinder the team and rebuild.

So again, we are concerning ourselves with not having enough cap space so that we can acquire more bad hockey players and hypothetical future hockey players?

Y'all worry way too much about that aspect and not enough about just getting good players

 

[Hammettf2b]

So again, we are concerning ourselves with not having enough cap space so that we can acquire more bad hockey players and hypothetical future hockey players?

Y'all worry way too much about that aspect and not enough about just getting good players

It's not like this team didn't try getting good players but when those deals fell through, it would have been better use of the cap by acquiring assets than using it up on players like Abby.

 

[Retire91]

So again, we are concerning ourselves with not having enough cap space so that we can acquire more bad hockey players and hypothetical future hockey players?

Y'all worry way too much about that aspect and not enough about just getting good players

I disagree to an extent, the use of cap space is a very important piece to a rebuilding team especially a team in the wings position who has no elite players and players that are still developing their elite potential. That is the perfect time period to take on a bad contract and get another shot in the lottery or some other asset. Its no risk all reward. When you use your capspace on fillers like Flipualla what exactly does that do for the rebuild nothing?

More on your side of the argument if you are don't get this year's UFA why spend up to the cap on mediocrity and miss out on next years UFA?

Don't get me wrong its not that big of a deal but I do see singings like Flipulla as a complete waste of an asset. Its my only criticism of Yzerman so far

 

[Ezekial]

Interesting in terms of the difference between Mantha and AA. Curious why Bowey is here and Hronek isn't, but that might be easier when I have more time to read it and I am not on my phone.

If he were listed it would've been at the bottom with Rasmussen under ELC.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I agree that overall we came out very well in that trade.

But if we are going to include the players we got with the draft picks, you have to also include the garbage deals given out with the cap space... no?
Acquiring cap space is the biggest reason why that trade was made, by all accounts.

If Hronek/Cholo become impact players on a cup-winning team, will it matter if we signed a couple crappy free agents at the time?

At the time of the trade and the eventual players picked up for the cap space I was worried about the impact they would have and that the team lost out on a bonafide defenseman. I don't think either is really a factor at this point.

 

[Frk It]

If Hronek/Cholo become impact players on a cup-winning team, will it matter if we signed a couple crappy free agents at the time?

Of course not. Hronek makes me forget about it every time I watch him play.

 

[Retire91]

If Hronek/Cholo become impact players on a cup-winning team, will it matter if we signed a couple crappy free agents at the time?

At the time of the trade and the eventual players picked up for the cap space I was worried about the impact they would have and that the team lost out on a bonafide defenseman. I don't think either is really a factor at this point.

Imagine an expanded core surrounding picks like Hronek/Cholo if the team's assets were used in legit rebuilding earlier in the process rather than rentals making it into the playoffs for no real reason other than to do it. Instead, we don't have those futures we could have had with those opportunities, and we still have the contracts on the books from these very moves themselves interfering with the actual rebuild process. Even if these picks turn out as much as we hope it's going to be a hard sell to wash that out of the legacy.