The Armchair Coaching Thread [MOD WARNING in OP]

[vanuck]

Is it that really the bottom 6 "haven't held up their end of the bargain in terms of matchups" or is it the belief with Coach Torts' thinks that playing their top players more ATOI would yield more results?

Let's be honest here, that hasn't exactly translated to better results in the standings compared to the previous Coaching regime.

Looking at the bottom six right now, only Sestito has a poor +/-.

Were there certain games or memorable incidents that you can remember where the bottom six clearly were over matched by the other team's bottom six that compelled Coach Torts' to play the top six more in lieu of them instead?

For the 3rd line not so much, but mainly it has been the 4th line that has seen some drastic reductions in ice time per game - sometimes whenever they haven't played up to par.

Plus I'm not looking at +/- as much as shots attempts i.e Corsi when they're on the ice. On the whole they've faced some pretty soft competition and still gotten buried in possession which hurts the team when they can't play.

 

[me2]

I agree with almost all of this. Gillis was on the radio a day or two ago and every time I hear him speak he says the same thing about how he doesn't personally like watching this style of play that is popular in todays NHL but that he has no choice but to basically succumb to it and build the Canucks that way even if its not entertaining. I don't know why he points out the Bruins and the Blues but ignores the Hawks, Pens and Sharks.

Hawks yes, but the Hawks are simply the most talented team around. Beating the in a series playing their style would require acquiring more talent than them.

The Penguins should be as dominant as they were when they won the cup ie SCF losers one year and SCF winners the next. So does that hold up, as the league started slipping away from that post lockout era: out in 2nd round, out in 1st, out in the 1st, ECF beaten by Boston.

The Sharks are interesting, they are big team and Robinson has helped with their D structure. They haven't won anything.

LA have always been a crap regular season team.

 

[RobertKron]

For the 3rd line not so much, but mainly it has been the 4th line that has seen some drastic reductions in ice time per game - sometimes whenever they haven't played up to par.

Plus I'm not looking at +/- as much as shots attempts i.e Corsi when they're on the ice. On the whole they've faced some pretty soft competition and still gotten buried in possession which hurts the team when they can't play.

Yeah, we're basically ignoring that the large stretch of the year when the top guys were playing huge minutes came when the fourth line had Weber on one wing and pre-learning how to play hockey Sestito on the other.

 

[Bertie]

I agree with almost all of this. Gillis was on the radio a day or two ago and every time I hear him speak he says the same thing about how he doesn't personally like watching this style of play that is popular in todays NHL but that he has no choice but to basically succumb to it and build the Canucks that way even if its not entertaining. I don't know why he points out the Bruins and the Blues but ignores the Hawks, Pens and Sharks.

Because he is a master of avoiding responsibility by spin. The guy is harder to pin down than a pea on a plate.

 

[vanuck]

Yeah, we're basically ignoring that the large stretch of the year when the top guys were playing huge minutes came when the fourth line had Weber on one wing and pre-learning how to play hockey Sestito on the other.

That plus some of the skill-vs-size dichotomies in here are being astronomically overexaggerated so there's that.

 

[TheWanderer]

6 on 5 and you put BURROWS on the ice?

**** Torts, I like you but you've been doing this kind of **** all season long and it makes no ****ing sense.

I'm getting so sick and tired of seeing struggling players handed top minutes on a silver ****ing platter because of their ****ing paycheque.

Daniel - Kesler - Burrows should be our 4th line, getting 5 minutes a game for the rest of the season. All three of these players are sitting around and cashing in. ****ing ridiculous.

 

[RobertKron]

6 on 5 and you put BURROWS on the ice?

**** Torts, I like you but you've been doing this kind of **** all season long and it makes no ****ing sense.

I'm getting so sick and tired of seeing struggling players handed top minutes on a silver ****ing platter because of their ****ing paycheque.

Daniel - Kesler - Burrows should be our 4th line, getting 5 minutes a game for the rest of the season. All three of these players are sitting around and cashing in. ****ing ridiculous.

Seriously, go for a walk.

 

[TheWanderer]

Seriously, go for a walk.

I need a frickin' Snickers bar is what I need right now.

 

[biturbo19]

And much to the surprise of all the people who were so very excited to bring in Tortorella to yell at the players and set 'em straight...We've become a near carbon copy of the Rangers of the last few years.

Can we fire this clown yet?

It's really not even enjoyable to watch this team any more these days. It's not fun hockey, it's not exciting hockey, it's not successful hockey. And it falls squarely on the coaches shoulders. It's not as though this is a drastically inferior team to the one we saw last year (in fact i think it's probably a slightly better one as a whole)...yet we're getting poorer results, and the most dull, lifeless, non-entertaining gameplay possible. It's basically just inflicting suffering on everyone for no reason at this point. Sacrificing enjoyable hockey watching for no gain whatsoever.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

The break out is too slow and with some of our slower forwards it really hampers our ability to generate anything off the rush.

The coaching staff needs to fix this asap or we will remain in the bottom third of the league in scoring.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

I always thought Gillis should have gone before AV did.

 

[opendoor]

The break out is too slow and with some of our slower forwards it really hampers our ability to generate anything off the rush.

The coaching staff needs to fix this asap or we will remain in the bottom third of the league in scoring.

Given the team's offensive output under two coaching staffs over the last 150 games or so, I think they'll remain in the bottom 1/3rd in league scoring no matter what the coaches do.

 

[canucksfan100]

Why hasnt Torts benched the Twins or Kes yet?

He was famous in NY for benching Gaborik when he was struggling, but has not done so with the Sedin or Kes..

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

He was famous in NY for benching Gaborik when he was struggling, but has not done so with the Sedin or Kes..

When Gaborik was struggling he wasn't stopping on pucks and his compete level was nowhere to be found. Different story here, no?

 

[VanillaCoke]

I thought kesler had a fine game, everyone else killed the play. I'd def keep kesler to mentor the next group of fwds next year. Unless gillis gets a stupid offer.

 

[vanuck]

I always thought Gillis should have gone before AV did.

Disagree. AV just wasn't the right guy to get the most out of them anymore.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Disagree. AV just wasn't the right guy to get the most out of them anymore.

And Torts is? I said it earlier but something I've noticed is that with AV when the team played well the team hardly ever lost, and if we did, it was usually due to a lack of effort. While with Torts even when the team gives a full effort we still lose relatively often.

While Torts might have been better at lighting a "fire" under players(although even that wears thin after a time), I think that his simply not as good a coach as AV was, certainly in the context of the type of roster we currently have assembled.

 

[vanuck]

And Torts is? I said it earlier but something I've noticed is that with AV when the team played well the team hardly ever lost, and if we did, it was usually due to a lack of effort. While with Torts even when the team gives a full effort we still lose relatively often.

While Torts might have been better at lighting a "fire" under players(although even that wears thin after a time), I think that his simply not as good a coach as AV was, certainly in the context of the type of roster we currently have assembled.

If you're talking about the difference in wins and losses only between the two teams, I'd say having 2 very good goalies in Schneider + Luongo had a fair amount to do with that.

The bolded is sort of ironic considering we had a skilled roster last year and AV still insisted on sitting back whenever we had a lead and a high percentage-only, no-risk style of play. Contrast that with what Torts has mandated... not to mention how he's actually trying to remedy the sort of mental fragility we've seen so much in postseasons past. I just think Torts' philosophy is much more in tune with how modern day teams play i.e keep pressing for the insurance goal even when you're up by 1.

And that's not even getting into the difference between the two in bench management.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

If you're talking about the difference in wins and losses only between the two teams, I'd say having 2 very good goalies in Schneider + Luongo had a fair amount to do with that.

The bolded is sort of ironic considering we had a skilled roster last year and AV still insisted on sitting back whenever we had a lead and a high percentage-only, no-risk style of play. Contrast that with what Torts has mandated... not to mention how he's actually trying to remedy the sort of mental fragility we've seen so much in postseasons past. I just think Torts' philosophy is much more in tune with how modern day teams play i.e keep pressing for the insurance goal even when you're up by 1.

And that's not even getting into the difference between the two in bench management.

We were much better at keeping leads under AV than we are Torts. The amount of times we've choked leads this season certainly looks more "mentally fragile" to me. As to bench management, what are you referring to playing the top players to the point of exhaustion?

I think we did great last year considering we were missing Kesler for almost the entire season as well as Bieksa for a sizable chunk. Admittedly AV was outcoached vs San Jose, but 4 games doesn't outdo all the good he's done for us.

 

[David71]

You know things are going bad the way it is now when you have torts having a post game interview and telling it how it is. Team is slow, gotta change the complexion of the team. * direct shot at mgmnt team. Hes frustrated and he feels the fans frustrations as well

 

[Whale]

This topic seems to be wandering a bit...

Here are my thoughts on how to tweak the team to create more offence under Torts' system.

First Line: Sedin - Sedin - Kassian

Play Kassian with the Sedins. He is growing in confidence, is already showing that he can dominate the boards, and early in the year showed that he can score from in front of the net when he plays with them. That's all he has to do, help manage the twin cycle and then plant his ass in front of the net and draw the other teams big defenders away from the boards. He can do that, and as a side bonus he provides protection for them. I don't think we would see guys like Keith, Bolland and Marchand pulling that crap if Kassian was there to do what the refs obviously won't.

Burrows is not the same player this year with the injuries he has had and should be used in a checking role until he gets back to 100%. This should not even be an issue at this point.

Second Line: Booth - Schroeder - Kesler

Ryan Kesler is not a good offensive center. There are two types of players, one looks down when they get the puck and drives the net, the other looks up and makes a play. Kesler is definitely the former, and that is the profile of a winger not a center. Frankly, I put all of our problems with the second line on Keslers style of play and his lack of interest in using his wingers.

Yes, it's great that he won a selke as a center, but we don't need that right now, we need goals. Put him at center if we are protecting a lead, but otherwise lets get him up the ice using his speed to create chances off of the rush. He's not going to pass the puck, he's not going to set up behind the net and make plays, that's not his game.

Its really a question of whether or not you want him taking on defenders 1 on 1 or 1 on 4, because as a center he is usually picking up the puck in the neutral zone when the other team is already back and expecting him to do what he always does. On the wing he can use his speed to get to the outside and drive the net.

Him and Booth are a lot alike in that regard, they want to play basically the same game puck rushing net driving game and would give us three big forwards in our top six and a second line that has speed to burn.

Schroeder has shown that he can retrieve the puck off of the boards and make a smart pass, he makes plays and has learned great defensive and body positioning. I really have yet to see a situation where his size has been an issue. We have put so much time into this kid and from what I am seeing it has not been a waste, he has done everything the organization has asked and put a ton of work into rounding out his game. Now lets show some faith in him and put him in a position to succeed, the last thing we need is another Hodgson situation right now.

Whoever thought it was a good idea to put him on the wing should be evaluated.

Third Line: Higgins - Dalpe - Hansen

All three of these players have great hustle and determination and Hansen and Higgins have shown chemistry in the past. It seems to me that they send each other in on breakaways on a pretty consistent basis. Once Richardson is back he can slot in there, but I just think this has energy line all over it. Putting Higgins on there spreads out the offence and tests the opponents third pairing. This isn't a checking line in the normal sense, but this is all about sparking the offence.

Fourth Line: Sestito - Lain - Burrows

Yeah, Burr on the fourth, pretty harsh, but he isn't offering much else right now is he. I think that he needs to either get 100% healthy or get back to the game that has made him successful in the past because it is just not working right now.

Personally, I would love to see him back to being a pest and taking pride in his defensive game. Once he has done that I think he will start to be effective again. I had concerns that Burrows was a 'coaches player' and that he would have a hard time without Vinny. I was actually hoping that we would trade him to NYR before his NTC kicked in for their 'coaches player' Callahan. I don't know if that is a part of the issue, but I do miss seeing him play with passion.

There are about a million other factors that make me think that this lineup would work with the way that Torts wants the team to play, but I've already written a book here so I'll just stop now.

 

[vanuck]

We were much better at keeping leads under AV than we are Torts. The amount of times we've choked leads this season certainly looks more "mentally fragile" to me. As to bench management, what are you referring to playing the top players to the point of exhaustion?

I think we did great last year considering we were missing Kesler for almost the entire season as well as Bieksa for a sizable chunk. Admittedly AV was outcoached vs San Jose, but 4 games doesn't outdo all the good he's done for us.

We were 24th in the league last season when leading after 2 periods with a record of 18-2-3 (a .783 win %) vs. 17-3-2 this year which ranks 23rd (.773). I don't see this "much better at keeping leads under AV" that you do. And no, bench management is much more than just that...

But by the end of his tenure here, AV was coaching a different style than what he'd led the team to so much success with. Which is why I feel it's not a fair comparison to say that last season would have been just as good as those high-flying days had they not suffered the injuries they had, and then turn around and claim Torts' coaching - which has seen pretty much the same pace of man games lost so far this year - has been worse.

 

[Luongos Knob]

I wish we couldve had jon cooper as the coach

 

[Peen]

Burrows the better buyout candidate?

 

[Vankiller Whale]

We were 24th in the league last season when leading after 2 periods with a record of 18-2-3 (a .783 win %) vs. 17-3-2 this year which ranks 23rd (.773). I don't see this "much better at keeping leads under AV" that you do. And no, bench management is much more than just that...

But by the end of his tenure here, AV was coaching a different style than what he'd led the team to so much success with. Which is why I feel it's not a fair comparison to say that last season would have been just as good as those high-flying days had they not suffered the injuries they had, and then turn around and claim Torts' coaching - which has seen pretty much the same pace of man games lost so far this year - has been worse.

We've looked lethargic this year well before the injuries set in. And while I'm going off memory we certainly weren't blowing things as often in the last 5 minutes of the game or allowing 2 goals in rapid succession as often as we have this year. The team looks as mentally fragile as it ever has. And I'll ask again what bench management you're referring to.

AV was coaching a different style because we simply didn't have a good enough team last year. We were lacking offense and going through injuries on top of that. It's the same reason AV had to adjust his coaching style when he came to New York, since they don't have the offensive firepower to pull off his ideal system.