Who in that group has the speed to gain control of the zone with speed and back the defenders off?
The Armchair Coaching Thread [MOD WARNING in OP]
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Who in that group has the speed to gain control of the zone with speed and back the defenders off?
I really think they need a puck moving d for the PP to come back to life.
It's just way too static right now, and has been ever since Ehrhoff left. Gillis made the decision that Edler was as adequate as Ehrhoff at moving the puck, but that hasn't come to pass.
I'm fine with the decision to let Ehrhoff go, as I thought Edler would be able to fill that roll as well, but it's looking like that's less and less the case. So unfortunately, something needs to happen. Gillis needs to recognize that his vision isn't working out as he intended it to, and make a change.
How in the hell that's going to happen, with the limited assets we have, I don't know.
It's just way too static right now, and has been ever since Ehrhoff left. Gillis made the decision that Edler was as adequate as Ehrhoff at moving the puck, but that hasn't come to pass.
I'm fine with the decision to let Ehrhoff go, as I thought Edler would be able to fill that roll as well, but it's looking like that's less and less the case. So unfortunately, something needs to happen. Gillis needs to recognize that his vision isn't working out as he intended it to, and make a change.
How in the hell that's going to happen, with the limited assets we have, I don't know.
TheWanderer
Registered User
- Nov 15, 2013
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I think it's more of a result of the defense being taught not to chase the Sedins anymore.
The 'All Things Coaching Related' Thread
I keep seeing these seemingly ridiculous blown coverages when the play is in our end and I'm having trouble understanding why NHL players are making these mistakes. Take this Hossa power play goal from last night as the most recent example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2mDMs8Vkr-s#t=117
You'll notice Edler goes wandering out to the half boards, leaving Hossa all alone to the side of the net. Why? All the elite teams running successful defences (LA, Boston, etc.) will gladly concede the perimeter and box out the area in front of the net (this is a big reason why the Sedin magic isn't as potent anymore, the opposing d-men just don't chase) but our d-men are constantly chasing and getting out of position. We've seen this on many other occasions this year, and the most common offenders are Bieksa, Garrison and Edler. I just don't understand it. If you're a d-man and are ever unsure where to go, aren't you supposed to just return to the front of the net?
I know on the PK we seem to run some kind of overload system where 2 PKers will attack the puck carrier if he shows any sign of losing control of a puck but that's generally the center + winger doing that, and not the d-man.
So am I missing something about our "system"? If not, why can't these guys be taught to play proper defence?
I keep seeing these seemingly ridiculous blown coverages when the play is in our end and I'm having trouble understanding why NHL players are making these mistakes. Take this Hossa power play goal from last night as the most recent example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2mDMs8Vkr-s#t=117
You'll notice Edler goes wandering out to the half boards, leaving Hossa all alone to the side of the net. Why? All the elite teams running successful defences (LA, Boston, etc.) will gladly concede the perimeter and box out the area in front of the net (this is a big reason why the Sedin magic isn't as potent anymore, the opposing d-men just don't chase) but our d-men are constantly chasing and getting out of position. We've seen this on many other occasions this year, and the most common offenders are Bieksa, Garrison and Edler. I just don't understand it. If you're a d-man and are ever unsure where to go, aren't you supposed to just return to the front of the net?
I know on the PK we seem to run some kind of overload system where 2 PKers will attack the puck carrier if he shows any sign of losing control of a puck but that's generally the center + winger doing that, and not the d-man.
So am I missing something about our "system"? If not, why can't these guys be taught to play proper defence?
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I'll take a quick stab at this. Edler had Saad contained. Yes, he probably should have been able to block that pass but the pass should never make it though the middle of the ice like that. The breakdown comes from both Hansen and Richardson being in position on the same guy. When Richardson commits to Saad, Hansen stays in the middle basically doing nothing. When Seabrook snuck by Hansen, Jannik should have collapsed into the slot to take away the pass from the middle.
If you watch right before Edler pursues the wall, the exact same thing happens on the other side with Garrison.
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=2013020808-277-ingame-h
While our defense has been horrible, this was on the forwards. We basically had 2 players covering/respecting Keith at the point.
First off, I messed up the original post since it was the Hossa goal and not the Saad, but anyway:
When Garrison went to the wall that was to pursue a puck that neither team had possession of yet, so that's a bit different. And while it does appear that Hansen is floating here, if you pause that video at the 9 second mark you will see:
Garrison between Versteeg and the net (OK)
Richardson between Keith and the net (OK)
Hansen loosely covering Seabrook (would be OK if he had better positioning on him)
Edler changing directions because he's a million miles away from Hossa who he should be covering
In other words, while Hansen is doing a poor job of covering Seabrook, he doesn't get burned by that and Edler is the only Canuck truly in no mans land when the goal is scored.
Keith wasn't on the ice.
Edler made a mistake by chasing Saad and leaving that cross-ice pass wide open, and the problem was compounded by Richardson going for the same man and leaving Hansen and Garrison to defend 3 players in the slot. Hansen should have recognized the situation and moved down to try and take away the pass to Versteeg, but I don't think he was primarily to blame there.
I don't necessarily agree with you. I just don't feel Edler was in the wrong on this play. He's had more than enough gaffes this season, but this wasn't one of them. Richardson started the collapse but I feel Hansen should have collapsed when he saw that Seabrook go.
Jimson Hogarth*
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
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- 3
Dalpe and Sestito's low ice time is certainly a head scratcher. Sully might be in a bit over his head, but I won't get to sticky about it just yet.
me2
Go ahead foot
TheWanderer
Registered User
- Nov 15, 2013
- 4,959
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Kassian is the team's best at zone entry. Though I'm too lazy to find the stat...
Jimson Hogarth*
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
- 12,858
- 3
I think it would take Edler and two 1sts
Edler, 1st 2014, 1st 2015
Edler, Shinkaruk , 1st 2014
Edler, Gaunce 1st 2014
I personally think Subban is worth every penny he's going to make in July.
vanuck
Now with 100% less Benning!
- Dec 28, 2009
- 16,799
- 4,016
This is to continue from the PGT seeing how it'll be locked soon anyway:
Off the rush you could see some differences in the way the puck-carrier attacks the defense. If he skates it in over the blueline in the middle of the ice he'll dish it off to the winger on the side and head straight to the net to create space, for instance. I don't think we see that often enough on this team.
Off the cycle you can see some marked differences in the way the Kings/Sharks generate shots too. In either instance, there's something lacking IMO.
Hence it makes me wonder as well how much video coaching they do offensively. Sometimes I think we play a little too much north-south and neglect the east-west aspects of puck movement - and as a result we're skating right into defenders instead of getting the puck into open ice so the guy has time and space to make plays, which I think Chicago does really well. This not only applies to offense but to breakouts/puck support too.
Off the rush you could see some differences in the way the puck-carrier attacks the defense. If he skates it in over the blueline in the middle of the ice he'll dish it off to the winger on the side and head straight to the net to create space, for instance. I don't think we see that often enough on this team.
Off the cycle you can see some marked differences in the way the Kings/Sharks generate shots too. In either instance, there's something lacking IMO.
Hence it makes me wonder as well how much video coaching they do offensively. Sometimes I think we play a little too much north-south and neglect the east-west aspects of puck movement - and as a result we're skating right into defenders instead of getting the puck into open ice so the guy has time and space to make plays, which I think Chicago does really well. This not only applies to offense but to breakouts/puck support too.
me2
Go ahead foot
Given the game tonight, I had a thought. Was Paul Maurice a guy the Canucks should have considered?
Ziostilon
Registered User
- Feb 14, 2009
- 3,829
- 23
This is the second goal for the JETS
Hamhuis-Weber pairing, unfamiliar with each other? looks like Wheeler on the RW dumping it in for the line change. Huge gap between the two d-man for Seto to retrieve the dump
Looks like Higgins, completely oblivious to Big Buff behind him on the RW
Hamhuis-Weber pairing, unfamiliar with each other? looks like Wheeler on the RW dumping it in for the line change. Huge gap between the two d-man for Seto to retrieve the dump
Looks like Higgins, completely oblivious to Big Buff behind him on the RW
This is what I don't get. This team used to know how to play defence. What the hell happened? This is worse than what you see from the Oilers these days
Royal Canuck
Taco Enthusiast
Subban is worth much more than that.
Edler + Horvat + 1st + Higgins +
and that's the lowest that Montreal goes
vanuck
Now with 100% less Benning!
- Dec 28, 2009
- 16,799
- 4,016
That stat was from a CanucksArmy article though I can't find it right now. You would think having him there would actually help with entries though.
Bertie
Registered User
- Jan 20, 2013
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- 0
With our players dropping like flies with injuries and others showing signs of fatigue through chronic over-use, I wonder what people are thinking about Tortorella's coaching style now.
I wonder how his exercise in "self gratification" looks to the more level headed fans now that our players have reached the physical limits of their ability to function in a Tortorella system.
I can't help thinking that this has been another panic/badly thought out and judged move by Mike Gillis.
Similarly to how he thought we lost the SC Final because we were not "big" enough and proceeded to sign/trade players who were not compatible to our main skill set (Kassian, Booth, Bytz, etc) he has hired a coach to play a type of game the core of our team was just not cut out for.
Gillis follows trends but doesn't realise that players, not just coach's create trends. We were "a trend" and only injury blinded Gillis to that fact. He should have reinforced this team not only by addition but by avoiding team hurting subtraction.
Worse still the coach he hired, despite claims of being wrongly labelled in NY, has a massive and hypocritical flaw in his make-up............he can't keep his mouth shut and his temper under control something he condemns players for.
Far from "having the guys backs" as some lightweights on here have said he has decided in a fit of self gratification, for which he was rightly punished, to place himself in the position of abandoning the team when they needed him most.
It is an irony to my mind that despite his rantings about saving the 1st line from being destroyed by Calgary, he has managed to physically destroy, through his system, half the team.
He didn't fit his system to the players he had, he mangled and forced them into the only system he seems to know, an endeavour apparently encouraged and condoned by Gillis.
I believe this team would be sitting higher and healthier in the Western Conference had we fired Gillis kept AV and signed a more pro-active player-savvy GM at the end of last season.
I wonder how his exercise in "self gratification" looks to the more level headed fans now that our players have reached the physical limits of their ability to function in a Tortorella system.
I can't help thinking that this has been another panic/badly thought out and judged move by Mike Gillis.
Similarly to how he thought we lost the SC Final because we were not "big" enough and proceeded to sign/trade players who were not compatible to our main skill set (Kassian, Booth, Bytz, etc) he has hired a coach to play a type of game the core of our team was just not cut out for.
Gillis follows trends but doesn't realise that players, not just coach's create trends. We were "a trend" and only injury blinded Gillis to that fact. He should have reinforced this team not only by addition but by avoiding team hurting subtraction.
Worse still the coach he hired, despite claims of being wrongly labelled in NY, has a massive and hypocritical flaw in his make-up............he can't keep his mouth shut and his temper under control something he condemns players for.
Far from "having the guys backs" as some lightweights on here have said he has decided in a fit of self gratification, for which he was rightly punished, to place himself in the position of abandoning the team when they needed him most.
It is an irony to my mind that despite his rantings about saving the 1st line from being destroyed by Calgary, he has managed to physically destroy, through his system, half the team.
He didn't fit his system to the players he had, he mangled and forced them into the only system he seems to know, an endeavour apparently encouraged and condoned by Gillis.
I believe this team would be sitting higher and healthier in the Western Conference had we fired Gillis kept AV and signed a more pro-active player-savvy GM at the end of last season.
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Vankiller Whale
Fire Benning
I was always against firing AV, but I don't think you can blame Torts. He is what he is and Gillis knew exactly what he was getting into when he hired him.
The thing that scares me the most is that with AV if we'd lose, it was usually because we played badly. With Torts there have been numerous times that even when the team has given it's all we'd still end up losing. He simply isn't as good at getting the most out of this team - for all his talk of "bite" at the end of the day it's meaningless if we're not winning hockey games. The team looks far more mentally fragile than it has in a long time in terms of choking leads at pivotal points in the game.
Gillis likes to blame the league for stifling finesse players as the reason for the Sedins scoring difficulties, yet other finesse players around the league seem to have no problem scoring. The reason has a lot more to do with coaching style than it does with the reffing. The Sedins are expending more energy killing penalties and blocking shots, as well as their cycle game not being utilized nearly enough. We simply don't have the personnel to be a truly successful team under Tortorella.
We can either stop pretending to be something we're not - and that includes Tortorella changing his coaching style similarly to how AV changed his with the Rangers, which is not easy - or if Gillis can't accept that skilled teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, San Jose can be successful in "today's NHL" then we ought to tear down this core - even the Sedins - and start anew to build a team in the mold of St. Louis or Boston. It would just be a shame that a core that still has or had more to give had to be sent to an early grave because of one man's overreaction to why a President's Trophy winning team lost in Game 7 of the SCF.
The thing that scares me the most is that with AV if we'd lose, it was usually because we played badly. With Torts there have been numerous times that even when the team has given it's all we'd still end up losing. He simply isn't as good at getting the most out of this team - for all his talk of "bite" at the end of the day it's meaningless if we're not winning hockey games. The team looks far more mentally fragile than it has in a long time in terms of choking leads at pivotal points in the game.
Gillis likes to blame the league for stifling finesse players as the reason for the Sedins scoring difficulties, yet other finesse players around the league seem to have no problem scoring. The reason has a lot more to do with coaching style than it does with the reffing. The Sedins are expending more energy killing penalties and blocking shots, as well as their cycle game not being utilized nearly enough. We simply don't have the personnel to be a truly successful team under Tortorella.
We can either stop pretending to be something we're not - and that includes Tortorella changing his coaching style similarly to how AV changed his with the Rangers, which is not easy - or if Gillis can't accept that skilled teams like Chicago, Pittsburgh, San Jose can be successful in "today's NHL" then we ought to tear down this core - even the Sedins - and start anew to build a team in the mold of St. Louis or Boston. It would just be a shame that a core that still has or had more to give had to be sent to an early grave because of one man's overreaction to why a President's Trophy winning team lost in Game 7 of the SCF.
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