OT: The Arizona Coyotes Lounge XVII - Office Space

[_Del_]

They share that profit with BD's like RH, its called POF or payment for order flow. The more action, the more they make, they really don't ever take a position, they are a middle man, I know them well.

Citadel also makes money by processing it's own trades fractions of seconds before it makes RH trades for them. The data sell is part of their relationship. Citadel's algorithm uses the RH data, and depending on what the algorithm says will front run their own trade(s) microseconds before processing the RH trades. This is part of their partnership. Your data as a trader on RH (or the several other "free" aps for trading which process through Citadel and the like). As long as Citadel processes their trades at the same or slightly higher (even a penny) as the RH trades, they get in to the market and make their own profit, and it doesn't meet the legal definition of front-running. But that's exactly what it is.

So even while Melvin (which Citadel has a stake in) is losing money, they are making moves on their own end to take advantage of the squeeze. I'm sure they aren't the only ones doing this, but in this case, they can use the RH data to inform their own trades (algorithms) before they process. It's free to consumers because that information IS the product.

Raising that requirement is why RH and others stopped trading the stock until they could get sufficient capital to DTCC.

This is an incomplete answer, because what RH and others did was not initially pass that margin to end users by saying, "you must now cover 100% margin to make new purchases of these stocks", but instead halted buying.

They did not "halt trading". You could still sell. They halted buying. That is blatant price manipulation.

They also liquidated some of their users' holdings, selling in bulk at the day's absolute low price point without consent of the users, which totally coincidentally helped out the hedges trying to close as many of their shorts as possible. And while this may be legal, buried in the terms and agreements as one possible way for RH to cover their increased margins, it strikes me as unethical as hell.

 

[RemoAZ]

Supposedly they are targeting silver and it's almost at $30 right now. Of course all my money is in gold miners. Grrr

 

[_Del_]

Silver is a good hedge bet to have anyway, because there are more actual industrial processes for silver than for gold, so far as precious metals go. And as a commodity is somewhat divorced from the price of the dollar or the market.
So thanks to whoever is pushing silver haha Especially if they ended up crashing the exchange.

 

[cobra427]

Citadel also makes money by processing it's own trades fractions of seconds before it makes RH trades for them. The data sell is part of their relationship. Citadel's algorithm uses the RH data, and depending on what the algorithm says will front run their own trade(s) microseconds before processing the RH trades. This is part of their partnership. Your data as a trader on RH (or the several other "free" aps for trading which process through Citadel and the like). As long as Citadel processes their trades at the same or slightly higher (even a penny) as the RH trades, they get in to the market and make their own profit, and it doesn't meet the legal definition of front-running. But that's exactly what it is.

So even while Melvin (which Citadel has a stake in) is losing money, they are making moves on their own end to take advantage of the squeeze. I'm sure they aren't the only ones doing this, but in this case, they can use the RH data to inform their own trades (algorithms) before they process. It's free to consumers because that information IS the product.


This is an incomplete answer, because what RH and others did was not initially pass that margin to end users by saying, "you must now cover 100% margin to make new purchases of these stocks", but instead halted buying.

They did not "halt trading". You could still sell. They halted buying. That is blatant price manipulation.

They also liquidated some of their users' holdings, selling in bulk at the day's absolute low price point without consent of the users, which totally coincidentally helped out the hedges trying to close as many of their shorts as possible. And while this may be legal, buried in the terms and agreements as one possible way for RH to cover their increased margins, it strikes me as unethical as hell.

Its obvious your not in this business, your comments are partially inaccurate. Citidel uses an algorithm like all market makers, it isn't special to RH or anyone else, it is simply based on order flow, there is nothing to see here. Halting buying isn't price manipulation, RH has every right to do it. Margin sell outs are at the discretion of RH and usually they happen near market close in bulk with all firms, thats the way it works, again, nothing to see here.

Last, its not an incomplete answer. As soon as DTCC said you need more collateral at the end of one day, RH can't purchase additional shares until they deposit collateral, which took a day. That has nothing to do with changing customer margin requirements.

 

[_Del_]

Citidel uses an algorithm like all market makers, it isn't special to RH or anyone else, it is simply based on order flow, there is nothing to see here.

They use information from trades they are going to process for RH to inform their algorithm. They front run them
They don't have a special RH algorithm. Noone said that. Other firms have their own algorithms. They don't have access to RH trades before those trades process. Citadel does. That's why we're talking about Citadel's algorithm when discussing RH trades...

Halting buying isn't price manipulation,

That's a joke, right?

Margin sell outs are at the discretion of RH... nothing to see here.

Sure. I should just totally ignore that Citadel raised their margin to 100%, and that RH who relies on them to process trades coincidentally decided to sell off their investors' holdings at the day's absolute low price point which meant selling the most amount of shares for the least amount for their investors, but entirely coincidentally saved Melvin (who Citadel has a large stake in) by putting a huge number of shares available to hedges trying to cover shorts at their lowest price, while also stopping any more of their customers from purchasing those shares. I wonder who snapped up those shares in this giant coincidence? Give me a break.

That has nothing to do with changing customer margin requirements.

Hahahhahaha. If only RH could use that capital somehow...

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I don't know him or his Dad, my career has mostly been in AZ.

Well, ya never know,
Small world and all..... even smaller hockey circle.

 

[MIGs Dog]

10 yrs ago silver was at $45. Not a great hedge or investment.

 

[_Del_]

10 yrs ago silver was at $45. Not a great hedge or investment.

It's a good hedge. Bad investment. (Unless the bottom drops out of the financial system. Then it's great)

 

[RemoAZ]

10 yrs ago silver was at $45. Not a great hedge or investment.

Really great info on this site if you interested in metals. Always current as it's updated continuously.
Silver price moves 6% on short squeeze pressure; is that it? Phil Streible - Kitco

 

[moosemeister]

Anyone have a good chiropractor in East Valley? Been dealing with Sciatica. The Joint is a f***ing joke. Lol

 

[rt]

Anyone have a good chiropractor in East Valley? Been dealing with Sciatica. The Joint is a f***ing joke. Lol

I went to LifeQuest on Ray and McQueen because it's only a couple miles from my office. I went there for a while but eventually they wouldn't see me any longer because I refused to go on a "plan" and the office manager lady gave me the boot. The PA that gave injections was super cool, but left around that same time. The chiropractor was also really cool. He recently moved to Lyon's Gate (maybe a couple of years ago) and I bumped into him at the community Christmas event. He mentioned they were opening another location. It's now open by the new Fry's on Recker and Williams Field. My back has been absolutely crushing me the last week or so. Sciatica is on fire. So I know how you feel. I was really thinking about calling them tomorrow and just being honest with them. I want to come in once a month and pay the specialist copay. I have no interest in a membership and I want no diagnostics of any kind done. I'm not going to get any outpatient procedures or imaging. Do they want to see me now and again or not?

I went to Arizona Medical and Sports Rehab for a while, too. On Warner and McClintock (my office is basically halfway between these two spots). Again, it was good. I went there because that's where the LifeQuest PA ended up (I really liked this guy). But they only let me go there a few times before they wanted me on a "plan" and wanted me to get an MRI and an epidural, etc. etc.

I'm looking for an adjustment every 3-6 weeks, along with some trigger-point injections or a Toradol shot. That's it. I'm 35 years old, and I have a slipped disc. I'm not getting surgery until I absolutely have to. I don't believe in the preventative benefits of chiropractics at all. I think it's nonsense. I'll come in when my pain is overwhelming. If I can deal with it, I'll deal with it, and I ain't coming in.

I'm wondering if the pandemic has made them more amenable to on-demand patients.

 

[cobra427]

They use information from trades they are going to process for RH to inform their algorithm. They front run them
They don't have a special RH algorithm. Noone said that. Other firms have their own algorithms. They don't have access to RH trades before those trades process. Citadel does. That's why we're talking about Citadel's algorithm when discussing RH trades...


That's a joke, right?

Sure. I should just totally ignore that Citadel raised their margin to 100%, and that RH who relies on them to process trades coincidentally decided to sell off their investors' holdings at the day's absolute low price point which meant selling the most amount of shares for the least amount for their investors, but entirely coincidentally saved Melvin (who Citadel has a large stake in) by putting a huge number of shares available to hedges trying to cover shorts at their lowest price, while also stopping any more of their customers from purchasing those shares. I wonder who snapped up those shares in this giant coincidence? Give me a break.

Hahahhahaha. If only RH could use that capital somehow...

You are way off base, you don't understand how the business or the regulations work. I'm not going to bother responding any more to your misinformation on a topic you don't understand.

 

[_Del_]

Hey, guys. Citadel didn't actually have a $1 billion dollar share in Melvin, and they and others didn't pour an additional $2 billion into it to keep it solvent last week. Citadel doesn't front-run/penny jump your order because Robinhood doesn't make it's money by selling user data to HFTs like Citadel.
But hey, it's legal as long as they execute the Robinhood orders at best prices (ie-- don't execute their own order at a lower price). Stopping purchases from a large percentage of the market whole still allowing sales of same will not drive prices in one direction. PFOF is not rife with ways for HFTs to profit off you. HFT's like Citadel pay Robinhood for their(/their users) trades and data instead of charging Robinhood a commission out of the goodness of their enormous hearts!

The "product" is completely free-- you aren't the product!

The news is "way off base"! Cobra cleared it all up.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I went to LifeQuest on Ray and McQueen because it's only a couple miles from my office. I went there for a while but eventually they wouldn't see me any longer because I refused to go on a "plan" and the office manager lady gave me the boot. The PA that gave injections was super cool, but left around that same time. The chiropractor was also really cool. He recently moved to Lyon's Gate (maybe a couple of years ago) and I bumped into him at the community Christmas event. He mentioned they were opening another location. It's now open by the new Fry's on Recker and Williams Field. My back has been absolutely crushing me the last week or so. Sciatica is on fire. So I know how you feel. I was really thinking about calling them tomorrow and just being honest with them. I want to come in once a month and pay the specialist copay. I have no interest in a membership and I want no diagnostics of any kind done. I'm not going to get any outpatient procedures or imaging. Do they want to see me now and again or not?

I went to Arizona Medical and Sports Rehab for a while, too. On Warner and McClintock (my office is basically halfway between these two spots). Again, it was good. I went there because that's where the LifeQuest PA ended up (I really liked this guy). But they only let me go there a few times before they wanted me on a "plan" and wanted me to get an MRI and an epidural, etc. etc.

I'm looking for an adjustment every 3-6 weeks, along with some trigger-point injections or a Toradol shot. That's it. I'm 35 years old, and I have a slipped disc. I'm not getting surgery until I absolutely have to. I don't believe in the preventative benefits of chiropractics at all. I think it's nonsense. I'll come in when my pain is overwhelming. If I can deal with it, I'll deal with it, and I ain't coming in.

I'm wondering if the pandemic has made them more amenable to on-demand patients.

Waited forever to have my neck surgery, three levels, one fused and two ADR’s, wished I’d done it 40 years ago!
BUT, lower back is a bit tougher.

 

[bluesXwinXtheXcup]

My dog eats cat turds

The vet said they were, "taboo treats for a dog."

 

[Sinurgy]

Waited forever to have my neck surgery, three levels, one fused and two ADR’s, wished I’d done it 40 years ago!
BUT, lower back is a bit tougher.

I feel like I'd be scared shitless to have neck surgery! I'll probably be there one day though, I have horrible posture!

 

[bluesXwinXtheXcup]

Uh oh.

My Blues are going to crush some souls...

Sorry ahead of time

 

[SniperHF]

It's cute that you think we Coyotes fans have souls left to crush

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I feel like I'd be scared shitless to have neck surgery! I'll probably be there one day though, I have horrible posture!

It’ll freak a man right out for certain! Check out a YouTube video of a cervical disc replacement, once you get past the fact that they work with tools right next to your spinal chord, it’s all good!

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

It's cute that you think we Coyotes fans have souls left to crush

Amen brother.

 

[TheLegend]

The Jovocop on the Great One...... (language warning)

 

[Bonsai Tree]

Uh oh.

My Blues are going to crush some souls...

Sorry ahead of time

And I thought that St Louis people only cared about baseball.

 

[Tom Polakis]

And I thought that St Louis people only cared about baseball.

They don't care about football (again).

 

[Tom Polakis]

The Jovocop on the Great One...... (language warning)

And then the same players were making breakout plays with passes landing on the tape when Tippett took over. What the f**k is going on?

 

[SniperHF]

That was hilarious. Good thing it was a while ago so it's funny now.