The American Dream Phil Kessel: Trade talk part II

[shureshot66]

Kessel just sent a statement to TSN. Here's the unofficial copy:

First of all, I would to thank the many, many fans throughout this country that wrote cards and letters to Phil Kessel, The American Dream, while I was down. Secondly, I want to thank Jim Rutherford promotions for waitin’ and takin’ the time ‘cause I know how important it was, Stanley Cup ‘16 it is to the Penguins fans, it is to Jim Rutherford promotions, and Phil Kessel The American Dream. With that wait, I got what I wanted, chance to play with Sid to be the Stanley Cup Champion. I don’t have to say a whole lot more about the way I feel about Shanny; no respect, no honor. There is no honor amongst thieves in the first place.

Shanny put hard times on Phil Kessel and his family. You don’t know what hard times are daddy. Hard times are when the Penguins GM's around this country are out of clues, they got Simon Despres and can’t play them, can’t keep em cause they eat too much food. Hard times are when the Sid and Geno are out of wingers and they tell ‘em to go it alone. And hard times are when JR has worked at a job for thirty years, thirty years, and they give him a watch, kick him in the butt and say “hey IC at HFBoards took your place, daddyâ€, that’s hard times! That’s hard times! And Shanny you put hard times on this country by takin’ Phil Kessel out, that’s hard times. And we all had hard times together, and I admit, I don’t look like the athlete of the day supposed to look. My belly’s just a lil’ big, my heiny’s a lil’ big, but brother, I am bad. And they know I’m bad.

There were two bad people… One was John Wayne and he’s dead brother, and the other’s right here. Brendan Shanahan, the Cup title belongs to these Penguins people. I’mma reach out right now, I want you at home to know my hand is touchin’ your hand for the gathering of the biggest body of people in this country, in this universe, all over the world now, reachin’ out because the love that was given me and this time I will repay you now. Because I will be the next Stanley Champion on this hard time blues. Phil Kessel tour, ‘16.

And Shanny, Toronto Boy… Let me leave you with this. One way to hurt Shanny, is to take what he cherishes more than anything in the world and that’s a shot at the Stanley Cup title. I’m gon’ take it, even if Shanny been there twice. This time when I take it daddy, I’m gon’ take it for you. Let’s gather for it. Don’t let me down now, ‘cause I came back for you, for Sid and Geno who been dyin on ice since 6 years ago and never got the opportunity win the cup ridin with a World’s Champion winger. And I’m proud of you, Pens HFBoards, thank god I have you, and I love you. I love you!

​

Click to read more...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah, we're just in such a unique situation with having two first-line centers. With most teams it's a no-brainer to try the shiny new toy with the #1 guy first and have a trickle down effect with the rest. But if we do that, it seems like we're giving Geno the shaft.

With Kessel it's hard to say who gets first crack. On one hand I'm sure the coaching staff wants to see Sid and Kessel together because of the speed element. At the same time, Geno could likely get him first because of how hard it would be to separate the chemistry Sid and Hornqvist have.

It's interesting to think about, but Sid has never played a full-season with two legitimate top-six wingers, and Geno only got to once. Pretty sad how much we failed them up to this point.

Apparently Malkin really wanted to play with Hornqvist I read somewhere.

Crosby likes to play with speed guys apparently and there aren't many faster wingers than Kessel. After having a day to digest it, I'm pretty sure we will see:

Crosby Kessel
Malkin Hornqvist

I still love Perron with Malkin and think those two will really click at some point. Whatever though. They have three legit top six guys so I don't even care who plays where.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I am ok with Crosby and Phil being tried, it's not like Malkin is getting **** options here.

The options: Plotnikov, Perron, Hornqvist, Kessel (if he and Sid don't mesh) and Kunitz.

Geno will not be stuck with the likes of Comeau or Adams ever again.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Apparently Malkin really wanted to play with Hornqvist I read somewhere.

Crosby likes to play with speed guys apparently and there aren't many faster wingers than Kessel. After having a day to digest it, I'm pretty sure we will see:

Crosby Kessel
Malkin Hornqvist

I still love Perron with Malkin and think those two will really click at some point. Whatever though. They have three legit top six guys so I don't even care who plays where.

The good thing is Sid also seems to be a fan of Plotnikov.

Plotnikov, Crosby, Kessel
Perron, Malkin, Hornqvist

You don't lose when Kunitz is bumped out of the top 6.

 

[shureshot66]

When it began, there was no small amount of separation between what Rutherford sought to do and what the better part of the rest of that table wanted to do, from what I’ve been told this week. He wanted Kessel. That’s well known. He did nothing at all to mask that, which was striking in and of itself. But others under him were equally or more locked in on other wingers coming available and what might be fair returns, and that was the original source of friction.

Once Brandon Saad came available, the gap grew. Those under Rutherford were ready to move mountains and streams to get Saad, and they pushed the GM to put together a package that might supersede what the Blue Jackets were offering the Blackhawks.

They never agreed on that package and never made a formal offer, I’m told definitively. Discussions yes, but offer no. It never got serious.

(You’re going to ask which players were discussed. I have no idea, and I don’t speculate.)

This frustrated Rutherford’s lieutenants, but the focus took a hard turn back to Kessel as soon as Saad was sealed up by Columbus. And when that happened, maybe galvanized by having lost Saad, all concerned were back on a single page pushing toward a common goal.

That’s how a deal that sensationally complicated was done in less than 24 hours.

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/07/03/friday-insider-rutherford-shows-whos-boss/

 

[Waffle Fries]

Apparently Malkin really wanted to play with Hornqvist I read somewhere.

Crosby likes to play with speed guys apparently and there aren't many faster wingers than Kessel. After having a day to digest it, I'm pretty sure we will see:

Crosby Kessel
Malkin Hornqvist

I still love Perron with Malkin and think those two will really click at some point. Whatever though. They have three legit top six guys so I don't even care who plays where.

I thought the story went that Geno expected Hornqvist to be his winger last year, and was disappointed that it didn't work out that way. I don't think he'll be disappointed if he has the chance to play with Kessel.

I really didn't like the way Malkin and Hornqvist meshed. I even remember an interview with Hornqvist where he admitted the two of them needing to work on finding chemistry. That's a pretty big divide from the "gin and tonic" comments said about playing with Crosby.

Overall I agree that I don't really care who plays where (and I think every possible combination should be tried in camp) but as much as I have always wanted to see Crosby play with someone of Kessel's caliber, my preference is definitely to keep him with Hornqvist if possible.

 

[ColePens]

Oh wow. Hard times promo Penguins style. Kudos on that.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The good thing is Sid also seems to be a fan of Plotnikov.

Plotnikov, Crosby, Kessel
Perron, Malkin, Hornqvist

You don't lose when Kunitz is bumped out of the top 6.

He apparently isn't a good skater so that will be tough for him to keep up with two guys with crazy afterburners.

I'll take just about any option over Dupuis or Kunitz though.

 

[Waffle Fries]

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/07/03/friday-insider-rutherford-shows-whos-boss/

This story about Saad doesn't seem to fit with the quotes that came directly after the trade went down.

In fact... from DK himself

As for the Penguins, yes, according to our sources from directly inside the team, they did make an offer, one that might well have been better than Columbus’, but it obviously wasn’t the one Chicago chose. And no, there was zero indication as to the specifics of their offer.

Suffice it to say all concerned aren’t exactly doing cartwheels. As our Josh Yohe reports from Detroit, they’re actually “sick to our stomachs†right now.

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/06/30/newsviews-saad-to-columbus-in-mega-deal/

 

[Beauner]

Man.. Remember when Malkin's linemates were Asham and Letestu? How far we've come...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I thought the story went that Geno expected Hornqvist to be his winger last year, and was disappointed that it didn't work out that way. I don't think he'll be disappointed if he has the chance to play with Kessel.

I really didn't like the way Malkin and Hornqvist meshed. I even remember an interview with Hornqvist where he admitted the two of them needing to work on finding chemistry. That's a pretty big divide from the "gin and tonic" comments said about playing with Crosby.

Overall I agree that I don't really care who plays where (and I think every possible combination should be tried in camp) but as much as I have always wanted to see Crosby play with someone of Kessel's caliber, my preference is definitely to keep him with Hornqvist if possible.

Sometimes chemistry takes time though. Usually it does to be honest.

We know Hornqvist and Kessel won't be on the same line though. Both are straight up RWs and don't play the other side well. You don't **** with that. So we know Crosby and Malkin will each get one.

If Perron ends up on the same line as Kessel, that's going to be some insane skill.

 

[shureshot66]

This story about Saad doesn't seem to fit with the quotes that came directly after the trade went down.

In fact... from DK himself


http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/06/30/newsviews-saad-to-columbus-in-mega-deal/

Yeah, lots of mixed messages. Either it's just a semantics issue -- tonight's piece uses the phrase "formal offer" for example -- or, just as likely, the front office has six dozen different decision-makers these days and they're all telling their own versions of how it went down.

 

[PensPlz]

Was bored so I made this for the occasion.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Sometimes chemistry takes time though. Usually it does to be honest.

We know Hornqvist and Kessel won't be on the same line though. Both are straight up RWs and don't play the other side well. You don't **** with that. So we know Crosby and Malkin will each get one.

If Perron ends up on the same line as Kessel, that's going to be some insane skill.

Chemistry does take time, but there was just something about the way they played together that just felt very off to me. It was more than two guys who didn't know how to play together, it seemed like two guys who's games just didn't fit. I'm willing to see how it looks again, but my expectations for it are low.

As far as Perron and Kessel on the same line, I saw Yohe tweet earlier that he thinks the first line will be Perron-Crosby-Kessel. That would be incredible, but I'm not sure that Plotnikov-Malkin-Hornqvist is the way to go for line two.

 

[themethod7]

Man.. Remember when Malkin's linemates were Asham and Letestu? How far we've come...

To be fair, we won a cup with Malkin flanked by Fedotenko and Talbot. Either way, this is shaping up to be the best our top-6 has looked in the Crosby/Malkin era.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Yeah, lots of mixed messages. Either it's just a semantics issue -- tonight's piece uses the phrase "formal offer" for example -- or, just as likely, the front office has six dozen different decision-makers these days and they're all telling their own versions of how it went down.

It's just pretty weird that immediately following the Saad trade Molinari and Yohe were tweeting about how the Penguins made an offer. Yohe went as far as to say that members of the organization were shocked at how little he went for and felt sick about it.

I think DK is just trying to create some kind of narrative. While many of us suspected that Rutherford wasn't the driving force behind the Despres trade, DK never mentioned it before. It's an odd time to bring it up.

 

[shureshot66]

It's just pretty weird that immediately following the Saad trade Molinari and Yohe were tweeting about how the Penguins made an offer. Yohe went as far as to say that members of the organization were shocked at how little he went for and felt sick about it.

I think DK is just trying to create some kind of narrative. While many of us suspected that Rutherford wasn't the driving force behind the Despres trade, DK never mentioned it before. It's an odd time to bring it up.

I'm too lazy to look for it right now, but it was definitely written before that it was subordinates who pushed to bring back Lovejoy specifically. Thought it wasn't Dejan, but maybe not. Can't remember.

As he wrote tonight, of course, Rutherford is still a dope for pulling the trigger on that one regardless of who advocated for what.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Chemistry does take time, but there was just something about the way they played together that just felt very off to me. It was more than two guys who didn't know how to play together, it seemed like two guys who's games just didn't fit. I'm willing to see how it looks again, but my expectations for it are low.

As far as Perron and Kessel on the same line, I saw Yohe tweet earlier that he thinks the first line will be Perron-Crosby-Kessel. That would be incredible, but I'm not sure that Plotnikov-Malkin-Hornqvist is the way to go for line two.

Ya, the Malkin line would need more speed I'd think. Hard to know without seeing this Plotnikov kid.

I just hope Plotnikov or BB grab that last spot and never let it go, barring a BB injury of course.

 

[Trepanated]

The thing with Crosby is that it's not really about speed. Many people think it is and maybe even he thinks it is, but I disagree.

Hockey is about creating and using space, ok? Can we agree? Offensively speaking, at any given moment, players should be thinking about how they create space, or how they exploit it. Many goals are scored because one player created space and another player exploited it.

Crosby is an interesting case among elite players because he only knows 1 way to play in the offensive zone, and that is to function as an elite space creator. People think of him as an elite passer, which he is, but he's not at his best making fancy passes and certainly not when he's standing still (which creates no space). As an aside, that's why it's so important for the PP to be more dynamic; Crosby can't just stand still on the half wall and zip passes that create scoring opportunities. He is at his best not when making fancy passes but when skating back and forth behind the net 6 times until the other team has been completely undone, positionally speaking. Then he can find someone in a soft area in the slot, or just send a simple bank pass to a wide open point.

He is not so good in the neutral zone. It's probably partly to do with the smaller neutral zone, but Crosby is not an elite dangler. To the extent he ever goes right around a defender it's generally less to do with dangling, and more to do with simply putting the puck by them and then using his balance and lower body strength to bounce off a check. He's not effective carrying the puck through the neutral zone by himself; he does much better when paired with someone who is a good puck carrier.

What this adds up to is that an ideal Crosby winger should be a good puck carrier in the neutral zone. This correlates pretty strongly with fast skaters, in that all the fancy dangles in the world won't help much if you aren't fast enough to get away from someone and avoid them simply sealing you off. In the offensive zone, he doesn't need a space creator at all. He needs a space exploiter, someone who can find soft areas and finish chances. Not someone to dig pucks out of the corner, not someone to drag defenders out of position. Those are things Crosby can do for himself.

So the ideal winger? A speedy puck-handler who turns into more of a sniper in the offensive zone. This largely describes the Kunitz of a few years ago. Kunitz did contribute other things back then, like a good forecheck, but that's not what made him good with Crosby specifically. They were just useful things.

It almost perfectly describes Phil Kessel now. I think this could be a dynamite combination. With our luck, Steigy will probably take to calling them something hideous, like "Crossel". But that will be the worst aspect of the combination.

Malkin, incidentally, is someone I see as being a lot more balanced. He's a better space creator in the neutral zone, being more of a dangler and being vastly more willing to hold the puck and circle back if he doesn't like what he sees. He's an elite space creator in the offensive zone as well, but he has a better sense than Crosby does of how to exploit space in the offensive zone when he happens not to have the puck. I think this explains why Malkin seems to gel with a wide variety of wingers, whereas Crosby seems to have a narrower range with more specific needs.

 

[Waffle Fries]

I'm too lazy to look for it right now, but it was definitely written before that it was subordinates who pushed to bring back Lovejoy specifically. Thought it wasn't Dejan, but maybe not. Can't remember.

As he wrote tonight, of course, Rutherford is still a dope for pulling the trigger on that one regardless of who advocated for what.

Oh of course, plenty of blame to go around for that trade. I'm just struggling to see what point DK is trying to make in that article, as he's pretty clearly contradicting himself and reports from two others in this latest article.

As you pointed out, it very well may be different members of the staff telling different versions of the story.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Ya, the Malkin line would need more speed I'd think. Hard to know without seeing this Plotnikov kid.

I just hope Plotnikov or BB grab that last spot and never let it go, barring a BB injury of course.

Agreed all around.

For now I'll just be happy that we now have the ability to discuss which of our elite centers our elite winger is going to play with. It's our first "good" problem in quite some time.

 

[Zen Arcade]

I knew the Toronto media was hard on Kessel, but some of the stuff I've read, even dating back before the trade is just shameful.

Not sure why any star player would want to go there and put up with that garbage.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I'm too lazy to look for it right now, but it was definitely written before that it was subordinates who pushed to bring back Lovejoy specifically. Thought it wasn't Dejan, but maybe not. Can't remember.

As he wrote tonight, of course, Rutherford is still a dope for pulling the trigger on that one regardless of who advocated for what.

• Let the record show, by the way, that all concerned — zero exceptions — will attest to Rutherford having been pushed to make the Simon Despres trade because people under him wanted Ben Lovejoy.

He listened that time and, yes, that makes the result 100 percent his fault.

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/07/03/friday-insider-rutherford-shows-whos-boss/

But he didn’t listen this time.

And yet NO ONE got fired after it.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Thought this was a really interesting read about the original Kessel trade.

I had totally forgotten about how the Leafs made a series of trades to try and get back their 2010 second so they could threaten Boston with an offer-sheet.

The Maple Leafs did not have the required draft picks to make a large enough offer. The key pick they were missing was their own 2010 second-round selection. That pick had previously been traded in 2008 by then-general manager Cliff Fletcher, along with prospect Greg Pateryn, to get Mikhail Grabovski from the Montreal Canadiens.

What followed was a sequence of trades to reacquire that pick that would have a significant impact on several other teams around the league, including the 2015 Stanley Cup champion Chicago Blackhawks.

1) In July, 2009, the Maple Leafs traded defenseman Anton Stralman, Colin Stuart and a 2012 seventh-round draft pick to the Calgary Flames in exchange for Wayne Primeau and Calgary's 2011 second-round draft pick.

2) By this point, Toronto's natural 2010 selection belonged to the Chicago Blackhawks because Montreal had traded it to them just three months after acquiring it to get Robert Lang.

That made the Blackhawks the next target to bring everything together.

3) To get the pick back, Toronto traded the 2011 second-round pick it acquired from Calgary in the Stralman trade, as well as its own 2011 third-round pick, to get their 2010 second-round selection back in their possession.

The notable part of this transaction is that Chicago used the 2011 second-round pick (the one that originally belonged to Calgary and was briefly in Toronto's hands) to select Brandon Saad. Saad, of course, would go on to be a key part of the Blackhawks' 2013 and 2015 Stanley Cup winning teams before he was traded this week to the Columbus Blue Jackets.

Looking at all those names, as well as all the pieces involved in the Seguin and Hamilton moves, and thinking about where those players are now, it's pretty amazing how this one trade has played such a huge role in shaping the landscape of the NHL today.

In the end, the only real winners of the original Kessel trade have turned out to be Dallas, who now has one of the best players in the NHL on a bargain contract, the Flames who have a potential top-pairing defenseman to complement Mark Giordano and T.J. Brodie, and the Penguins who finally have a top goal-scoring winner to play alongside one of their top-two centers.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on...l-kessel-trade-where-nobody-is-a-winner-today

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It was blatantly obvious on deadline day that JR was not the originator of the Despres trade. Yes, he's the one that pulled the trigger, but from his mannerisms, his body language, and the overall tone of his presser, it was obvious that trade was someone else's idea. It's still his fault--probably more so given the fact that he's the "lead GM"--but the problem goes a Hell of a lot deeper than JR.

All of that being said, I'm impressed and cautiously optimistic going forward. Trying to dump Scuderi and Kuniitz was a huge breath of fresh air. Going out and grabbing Kessel--all the questions that come with the trade--was a huge deal for this organization. Dumping Spaling as well was big. Maybe we're finally leaving the path and putting ourselves in the best possible position to win despite what it may mean to players' feelings.

For the first time in over 5 years, there's a light at the end of the tunnel for this team.