The American Dream Phil Kessel: Trade talk part II

[Shady Machine]

Kessel is a better player for sure, and Kessel at 6.8 is amazing, but if their package had landed Saad, they'd have a lot of assets left over and could probably make more happen (plus Sutter would be gone).

It makes for an interesting discussion. Kapanen, Harrington, 1st, 3rd, Spaling vs Kapanen, Sutter, Bennett and maybe one other piece that I'm unaware of, but assume it's nothing extremely high-end.

Meh I'll take Kessel and keep Bennett and Sutter (for now). I think Bennett can still be a valuable player if he gets healthy and stronger and Sutter can bring back a valuable piece if they play their cards right. Obviously losing another 1st and Harry hurts, but I think Kessel is a fair amount better than Saad.

 

[Quatro Quatro]

It's funny, out of all the D this team had, Harrington, Goligoski, and... Michalek got the best returns...

It really is a shame. I hate the fact that Shero never drafted many forwards, but he wasn't wrong that these defenseman had a lot of value. The problem was his execution in the deals and never actually giving them an opportunity to showcase themselves. Brutal.

And geez. Imagine this team right now with Despres. They could have had one of the best top six groups in the league, and really really promising defense.

 

[Shady Machine]

Would be nice to get Rychel. Columbus does need defense...

We can't trade anymore defense prospects. We need Dumo, Pouliot, and Maatta in the top 6.

Going forward this defense is close to set. The defense of the next several years should look something like this:

Maatta-Letang
Pouliot-Cole
Dumoulin-xxx
xxx

That's big pressure on Pouliot and Cole, but both can be top 4 guys. Lovejoy will likely fill a second pairing role next year but after that it's up to Cole and Pouliot or possibly Dumo.

 

[Asuna]

I'd still like to see the Penguins sign David Schlemko. Strong possession player...would help out the bottom pairing a lot.

As long as they got rid of Scuderi-Lovejoy, of course.

 

[Asuna]

We can't trade anymore defense prospects. We need Dumo, Pouliot, and Maatta in the top 6.

Going forward this defense is close to set. The defense of the next several years should look something like this:

Maatta-Letang
Pouliot-Cole
Dumoulin-xxx
xxx

That's big pressure on Pouliot and Cole, but both can be top 4 guys. Lovejoy will likely fill a second pairing role next year but after that it's up to Cole and Pouliot or possibly Dumo.

I don't think we have anymore defensive prospects to give

But a deal could be centered around Lovejoy perhaps..if he still has value around the league. Just spitballing here.

But yes, that's exactly how I see their defense right now, and I think Erixon could fill that last spot on the defense.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I'd still like to see the Penguins sign David Schlemko. Strong possession player...would help out the bottom pairing a lot.

As long as they got rid of Scuderi-Lovejoy, of course.

I wouldn't be surprised if we sign Schlemko.

 

[Asuna]

I wouldn't be surprised if we sign Schlemko.

I hope you're right.

 

[mpp9]

Putting aside Kessel chemistry with a center, Perron strikes me as smaller Lupul. Thatd be pretty sick to watch. With Sid/Geno as the center instead of Bozak.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I thought Rutherford came out and said as much?

Something about parts being taken away from the Kessel deal was not gonna happen. Priority #1 Kessel.

Kessel is very much>>>>Saad.

As much as I like the Kessel deal, that's debatable. Saad is cheaper, bigger, not a defensive liability, and he hasn't even hit his prime yet. Those 5 years between Kessel and Saad are much more important than most recognize. Kessel's on the back end of his prime, and Saad's just coming into his.

That said, Kessel's RH shot is going to open up a lot more options for our PP than Saad would have.

 

[Asuna]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=773566&navid=nhl:topheads

Looking at the remaining list of free agents, there are still some good options out there.

Fehr, Matthias, Dejardins, Tlusty...all good options for the bottom 6. At this point, they shouldn't be too expensive either.

Another decent defensive option would be Tim Gleason. Don't know how much he has left in the tank, but he's a physical stay at home defenseman. Partner for Dumo?

 

[Coastal Kev]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=773566&navid=nhl:topheads

Looking at the remaining list of free agents, there are still some good options out there.

Fehr, Matthias, Dejardins, Tlusty...all good options for the bottom 6. At this point, they shouldn't be too expensive either.

Another decent defensive option would be Tim Gleason. Don't know how much he has left in the tank, but he's a physical stay at home defenseman. Partner for Dumo?

Dump Sutter for a young pup with size and speed or futures. Then sign Matthias and I am one happy Pens fan.

 

[Asuna]

Dump Sutter for a young pup with size and speed or futures. Then sign Matthias and I am one happy Pens fan.

Easier said than done.

 

[mpp9]

As much as I like the Kessel deal, that's debatable. Saad is cheaper, bigger, not a defensive liability, and he hasn't even hit his prime yet. Those 5 years between Kessel and Saad are much more important than most recognize. Kessel's on the back end of his prime, and Saad's just coming into his.

That said, Kessel's RH shot is going to open up a lot more options for our PP than Saad would have.

Saad has two 50 pt seasons on the best team in the league. Kessel's worst playing on one of the worst teams was 60.

I doubt he ever comes close to ppg like Phil has.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Haha.....I guess that's what they are trying to do. Here's Madden.

"My sources tell me that no formal offer was made. And the reason that they didn't was that Rutherford was busying working on the details of the Kessel deal at the time the Saad deal went down."


Spin, spin, spin. They can't help themselves.


Not sure why they need to bother. Getting Kessel > Saad imo.

The day of the Kessel trade, Wed, Madden said they were busy arguing about Saad and didn't make a formal offer. Then said he was pissed when he found out, that the problem with having two dozen asst GMs is that by the time they agree on something, a guy like Saad is already traded.

He was only half joking and it was a great point. When you have a dozen assistant GMs, they also talk you into stupid **** like trading Despres.

Madden basically said JR didn't want Saad, he was focused on Kessel.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Kessel is a better player for sure, and Kessel at 6.8 is amazing, but if their package had landed Saad, they'd have a lot of assets left over and could probably make more happen (plus Sutter would be gone).

It makes for an interesting discussion. Kapanen, Harrington, 1st, 3rd, Spaling vs Kapanen, Sutter, Bennett and maybe one other piece that I'm unaware of, but assume it's nothing extremely high-end.

If BB stays healthy and plays well, it's a different conversation though.

I'd value a healthy BB over a late 2016 first, which is what the Leafs are looking at.

But that's just me.

Would they still have too many if two of them got hurt?

Why? What are you planning?

 

[mpp9]

The day of the Kessel trade, Wed, Madden said they were busy arguing about Saad and didn't make a formal offer. Then said he was pissed when he found out, that the problem with having two dozen asst GMs is that by the time they agree on something, a guy like Saad is already traded.

He was only half joking and it was a great point. When you have a dozen assistant GMs, they also talk you into stupid **** like trading Despres.

Madden basically said JR didn't want Saad, he was focused on Kessel.

He made the right call too.

 

[The Old Master]

Lovejoy will likely fill a second pairing role next year but after that it's up to Cole and Pouliot or possibly Dumo.

our best shot will be at the trade dealine. imo you know that thing we traded fatty for lovejoy for.....maybe some other gm might think the same way...we get a young top 4 de-man they get lovejoy

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Saad has two 50 pt seasons on the best team in the league. Kessel's worst playing on one of the worst teams was 60.

I doubt he ever comes close to ppg like Phil has.

Trajectory here is key. Saad has two 50 point seasons...by age 22. Adjusting for recent downturns in production league-wide, Saad and Kessel's careers at that age are pretty comparable, even if Kessel's still ahead.

But Saad doesn't have to be better than prime Kessel to be a more valuable winger. He just needs to be better between ages 23 and 27 than Kessel is between ages 28 and 32. All things considered, I think the odds are about 50/50 he does it.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He made the right call too.

I think the Despres trade taught him to trust his gut again. I think he was probably trying to show his 101 GMs he trusted them and it ended up with huge egg on his face, while those responsible got to keep their names out of the **** storm.

 

[mpp9]

Trajectory here is key. Saad has two 50 point seasons...by age 22. Adjusting for recent downturns in production league-wide, Saad and Kessel's careers at that age are pretty comparable, even if Kessel's still ahead.

But Saad doesn't have to be better than prime Kessel to be a more valuable winger. He just needs to be better between ages 23 and 27 than Kessel is between ages 28 and 32. All things considered, I think the odds are about 50/50 he does it.

I think Saad's pretty damn overrated. Chicago would have dumped Sharp for whatever and found a way to keep him if he was a legit elite player.

 

[mpp9]

I think the Despres trade taught him to trust his gut again. I think he was probably trying to show his 101 GMs he trusted them and it ended up with huge egg on his face, while those responsible got to keep their names out of the **** storm.

Yep. This organization didnt like Despres long before Jimmy got here.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I think Saad's pretty damn overrated. Chicago would have dumped Sharp for whatever and found a way to keep him if he was a legit elite player.

He's a good player, but ya, this talk of him being anywhere near Kessel is pretty silly.

Yep. This organization didnt like Despres long before Jimmy got here.

I just wish those responsible would man up. It was a colossal blunder.

I still imagine those guys sitting around a bong with Cheetos fingers calling up JR and pitching their idea....

 

[Asuna]

I know it's not likely, but I'm still hoping for an offer sheet for Miller. Or Kruger.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think Saad's pretty damn overrated. Chicago would have dumped Sharp for whatever and found a way to keep him if he was a legit elite player.

Agree to disagree, haha. We'll get a lot of opportunities to see how overrated Saad is over the next half-decade.

 

[mpp9]

Agree to disagree, haha. We'll get a lot of opportunities to see how overrated Saad is over the next half-decade.

He'll have a great center. Im judging by his resume so far. I dont think hes jumping into 35 goal/80 pt territory like Kessel will be money in the bank for here.