The All Things Sprong Containment Thread

[Gurglesons]

Simon played RW with Sid and LW on L3....the lineup could go when healthy...
Jake-Sid-Simon/Rust
ZAR-G-Kessel
Pearson-Brass-Horny
Grant-Cullen/Sheahan-Simon/Rust

Someone will sit, most likely between Grant, Cullen or Sheahan, but my guess is that Brass will be traded...
In other words, you can produce a viable lineup playing ZAR with G when healthy if the coaches so want...

We’ll see.

I’m not one to over react until we see something.







Unless it is signing Hunwick, Jack Johnson, or rolling into the season with McKegg and Rowney as your center depth.

 

[Icarium]

Sullivan has long wanted Malkin to shoot more, and the only exception he’s really made to this is deploying Kessel with him. While one day Sprong might get there, he never did enough to make the Penguins comfortable choosing him over Kessel alongside Malkin. Couple that with the fact that they’d prefer Hornqvist to play in the top-six — he’s a premium cap hit wasted if those on his line don’t generate enough trash for him to clean up — and it’s an imperfect equation.

I sure hope this is just journalistic speculation and not the actual thought process of Sullivan and company. I am not one of the "OMG, this trade is one of the worst ever, Sprong is special crowd!!1" but the idea that a prospect needs to outplay Kessel to get a spot in the line-up is so stupid. Malkin and Kessel are too inconsistent together to be considered inseparable, we aren't talking about great chemistry like Malkin and Neal and the Pens played their best hockey in this decade with the HBK line. Last but certainly not least, the coaching staff did not try putting Sprong with Geno even when Kessel was on another line this season. Not even for a period or two, let alone few games. If they think Sprong isn't good enough in general, fine, don't play him with Sid or Geno but the excuse that the only sniper who could possibly play with Malkin is so ridiculous.

And the legend of Sid liking only Pascal Dupuis clones for his wingers won't die for some reason... Top-notch analysis.

 

[Nakawick]

I hope Sprong bolts for the KHL and lights it up. Then he captains the Dutch at the olympics.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

When Horny and Simon are back, ZAR should be the one on the 4th line. Not Rust or Simon.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

How does that have any relevance to what Mackey said? Sprong not getting a chance next to Malkin is entirely irrelevant of what Mackey said there.

What Mackey said was very clear, they want Malkin shooting, and if they're going to put a shooter with Malkin, it was going to be Kessel. Sprong didn't show enough for the Penguins to play him on Malkin's line, over Kessel or players that would have Malkin shoot more. That's completely fair and an entirely valid point, you disagreeing with it doesn't make it invalid.

What makes it invalid is the fact that he was never put in a position to do that here, as each of JR, Sullivan, Carlyle, and Sprong himself have articulated at different times over the course of the season. Sprong's doing it regularly now though, because he's getting opportunity and regular icetime. Since nobody has been able to give a single example of a scoring wing prospect outperforming Sprong with the sort of deployment he saw in Pittsburgh, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to deduce what the problem was here.

 

[Gurglesons]

What makes it invalid is the fact that he was never put in a position to do that here, as each of JR, Sullivan, Carlyle, and Sprong himself have articulated at different times over the course of the season. Sprong's doing it regularly now though, because he's getting opportunity and regular icetime. Since nobody has been able to give a single example of a scoring wing prospect outperforming Sprong with the sort of deployment he saw in Pittsburgh, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to deduce what the problem was here.

But, like.. Mackey’s point was that he wasn’t put there for a reason.

It’s not “invalid” you just don’t agree with it.

 

[vikingGoalie]

the thing is mackey is a mouth piece for the pens org. he won't alter from what they want him to say by much or he'll lose his access.

I completely think this could work out worse then naslund. At least then we actually tried him in the role we wanted for him and he just wasn't working out. He blossomed after he left, and the guy we got was supposed to be a stud some day.

Now I have zero idea if Sprong will actually become the next Phil Kessel. But he does have the tools to do so.
Pettersson does fit a need on this team, but I mainly see a guy who knows how to play defense. which is good. but I don't see any flashes that scream to me that some day this kid could be a top pairing D man if things go right. He looks like he might be a middle pairing guy here down the road. Keep in mind that's on our team where we have Maatta, JJ, Oleksiak as the guys to surpass to reach that. Not exactly a high bar. Throw in Rikola there too if Sullivan decides he doesn't want to run him out of town too.

on talent alone, we lost this trade no doubt. on fit, mainly because of our obstinate coach, we probably are about even. where this will hurt is soon Malkin and Crosby will both be in their mid 30's. at that point both are one significant injury from being 100% done with hockey, and barring that their ability to dominate games will be diminished. Do we really think the Simon's of the world are what's gonna carry the offensive load for this team when our super stars age and Phil is most likely gone?

Sure we need to win now, right now Hornqvist and Simon are out injured. Sure would be nice if Sprong had been developed properly and could slot in there and help.

 

[JBose7]

Yeah, if you haven't watched the team since October. The Penguins are 4th in ES goals/game on the year and are 5th in the last 15 games. The idea that scoring is a problem with the Penguins right now is a total myth. They had a bad 9 game stretch from the end of October to the middle of November where they struggled to score at ES, that's really about it.

Every game they lose that I've watched they've struggled to score consistently at even strength. They'll have the game where they get 5 or six goals but they'll have the games they lose 3-2. They haven't been consistent in even strength play. Just saying they have goals is deceiving. Their possession numbers are awful 5 on 5 in a lot of games. Their offensive zone time is awful for a lot of games. Dont just cherry pick stats to justify a deficiency

 

[Shwag33]

Every game they lose that I've watched they've struggled to score consistently at even strength. They'll have the game where they get 5 or six goals but they'll have the games they lose 3-2. They haven't been consistent in even strength play. Just saying they have goals is deceiving. Their possession numbers are awful 5 on 5 in a lot of games. Their offensive zone time is awful for a lot of games. Dont just cherry pick stats to justify a deficiency

Sprong does not help with possession though...

 

[Shady Machine]

the thing is mackey is a mouth piece for the pens org. he won't alter from what they want him to say by much or he'll lose his access.

I completely think this could work out worse then naslund. At least then we actually tried him in the role we wanted for him and he just wasn't working out. He blossomed after he left, and the guy we got was supposed to be a stud some day.

Now I have zero idea if Sprong will actually become the next Phil Kessel. But he does have the tools to do so.
Pettersson does fit a need on this team, but I mainly see a guy who knows how to play defense. which is good. but I don't see any flashes that scream to me that some day this kid could be a top pairing D man if things go right. He looks like he might be a middle pairing guy here down the road. Keep in mind that's on our team where we have Maatta, JJ, Oleksiak as the guys to surpass to reach that. Not exactly a high bar. Throw in Rikola there too if Sullivan decides he doesn't want to run him out of town too.

on talent alone, we lost this trade no doubt. on fit, mainly because of our obstinate coach, we probably are about even. where this will hurt is soon Malkin and Crosby will both be in their mid 30's. at that point both are one significant injury from being 100% done with hockey, and barring that their ability to dominate games will be diminished. Do we really think the Simon's of the world are what's gonna carry the offensive load for this team when our super stars age and Phil is most likely gone?

Sure we need to win now, right now Hornqvist and Simon are out injured. Sure would be nice if Sprong had been developed properly and could slot in there and help.

Worse than Nasland? Come on.

 

[Fogel]

I'm pretty sure no one disagrees that Sprong was grossly misused here, the thing people disagree on is that one side thinks Sprong did nothing wrong and was solely screwed over, and the other side thinks Sprong was screwed over because he was doing so many things wrong.

So what did Sprong do that caused the Pens to waste an ELC year instead of sliding it, forcing him to waiver ineligible sooner? What was he going to contribute at the NHL level that was worth wasting an ELC year at 8/mins a game every other game? An extra AHL year certainly would have helped if he was doing so many things wrong as you state.

A lot of issues stem from his mismanaged contract situation and using that ELC year, he could be working on issues in the AHL now if not for that. I see the main crux of the argument as did it benefit the Pens by treating him the way they did or did it behoove them to shelter him more to make up for that lost ELC year and development time. Since he appears to be the last prospect for the next year or two (at least?) with top 6 upside, I thought the Pens would have been better served trying to coax his upside out with more favorable deployment and teammates especially in light of that lost development year.

At the very least, I hope that Sprong is the last prospect the Pens willing burn an ELC year and if they do it again, they at least try to make up for it in some fashion especially if the prospect has a similar high ceiling.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Worse than Nasland? Come on.

That's the guy who's already calling Sprong a 30 goal scorer right now. Not sure you should take his opinion seriously on this, it's all out of wack.

So what did Sprong do that caused the Pens to waste an ELC year instead of sliding it, forcing him to waiver ineligible sooner? What was he going to contribute at the NHL level that was worth wasting an ELC year at 8/mins a game every other game? An extra AHL year certainly would have helped if he was doing so many things wrong as you state.

Yeah, that's one area that the Penguins definitely screwed up. I don't know how that has any relevance to my post. Everyone deserves blame in this situation.

 

[The Old Master]

Sprong does not help with possession though...

but he would improve the quality of the possession time we have.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Worse than Nasland? Come on.

Ok that might be reach But what I was trying to point out was that while we gave up on Nasland too soon, we did actually have him in a role to suceed but he blossomed late. I mean we had him on the team 93/94 and traded him 95/96 he had 150ish games with the Pens and I thnk 25 goals. It took him a couple of years with the canucks before he really hit his stride there.

Now stojanav (or whatever his name was going off faulty memory here) was supposed to be a lot more then what he was. I dunno how the Pens org thought that, but obviously he was a flop.

So whereas Naslund got 150 games in a role to succeed Sprong was mismanaged completely and tossed aside after 40 games/4 goals. (Oddly Naslund in a higher scoring era had only 4 goals in 71 games his first season).

So I'm not saying that Daniel Sprong will be as good as Naslund, think I've said many times that I think he has the tools to be elite but we have to wait and see if he'll reach that. I'm just pointing out that it's worse in the aspect that we gave up waaaay earlier on Sprong.

 

[Shwag33]

Pettersson could come out tonight on his first shift, shoot it into our own net, slash letang in his hurt knee, leave, then retire and it would be better than the return we got for naslund.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ok that might be reach But what I was trying to point out was that while we gave up on Nasland too soon, we did actually have him in a role to suceed but he blossomed late. I mean we had him on the team 93/94 and traded him 95/96 he had 150ish games with the Pens and I thnk 25 goals. It took him a couple of years with the canucks before he really hit his stride there.

Now stojanav (or whatever his name was going off faulty memory here) was supposed to be a lot more then what he was. I dunno how the Pens org thought that, but obviously he was a flop.

So whereas Naslund got 150 games in a role to succeed Sprong was mismanaged completely and tossed aside after 40 games/4 goals. (Oddly Naslund in a higher scoring era had only 4 goals in 71 games his first season).

So I'm not saying that Daniel Sprong will be as good as Naslund, think I've said many times that I think he has the tools to be elite but we have to wait and see if he'll reach that. I'm just pointing out that it's worse in the aspect that we gave up waaaay earlier on Sprong.

This deal is a lot different I feel.

Naslund was having a good season when he got moved, and it was one of those deals that you definitely knew they made a mistake right away. I remember all my buddies and I at the rink the next day saying how stupid it was... we were all pissed beyond belief.

Apparently CP wanted to make the team tougher... and of course Stojanov got into a car accident that derailed his career.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But, like.. Mackey’s point was that he wasn’t put there for a reason.

It’s not “invalid” you just don’t agree with it.

It's neither fair nor valid to say that Sprong didn't show enough for the Penguins to play him on Malkin's line when nobody can provide an example of another scoring wing prospect who has shown more when given similar deployment.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

It's neither fair nor valid to say that Sprong didn't show enough for the Penguins to play him on Malkin's line when nobody can provide an example of another scoring wing prospect who has shown more when given similar deployment.

Can we stop the "scoring line winger prospect" nonsense.

He wasnt being asked to produce on the 4th line he was asked to be generally competent. And he wasnt. All the rest is trying to set a false narrative.

And if you want to see a "scoring line winger" that was developed in a teams bottom 6, look no farther tha Kasperi Kapanen.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's neither fair nor valid to say that Sprong didn't show enough for the Penguins to play him on Malkin's line when nobody can provide an example of another scoring wing prospect who has shown more when given similar deployment.

Not really sure what you are getting at.

The coach is in charge, he didn’t want Sprong there. You can say it was the wrong decision. It isn’t “invalid”. It was what happened from what Mackey’s sources have told him.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Jeckyll Sprong showed up again last night. No points, minus 1, completely caved in on all possession metrics.

Total stas line as a Duck of...

4 points (3 g, 1 A)
44.44 corsi
-8.3 rel corsi
44.8 fenwick
-7.9 rel fenwick

 

[Gurglesons]

Jeckyll Sprong showed up again last night. No points, minus 1, completely caved in on all possession metrics.

Total stas line as a Duck of...

4 points (3 g, 1 A)
44.44 corsi
-8.3 rel corsi
44.8 fenwick
-7.9 rel fenwick

Also gave away the tying goal.

 

[edog37]

In case you missed it Sprong has 3 goals, an assist, and a GW shootout goal in 6 games for Anaheim.

Which is about as much as Rust has done in the top 9 for the Pens in 30+ games.

let me know when Sprong scores meaningful goals that help to win Cups. Soft player....good riddance...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Not really sure what you are getting at.

The coach is in charge, he didn’t want Sprong there. You can say it was the wrong decision. It isn’t “invalid”. It was what happened from what Mackey’s sources have told him.

I didn't say the decision was invalid, even though I think it was wrong and Sprong's production in Anaheim is showing why. I said the justification was invalid, and it is.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

let me know when Sprong scores meaningful goals that help to win Cups. Soft player....good riddance...

Keep moving those goalposts.

 

[Coastal Kev]

This deal is a lot different I feel.

Naslund was having a good season when he got moved, and it was one of those deals that you definitely knew they made a mistake right away. I remember all my buddies and I at the rink the next day saying how stupid it was... we were all pissed beyond belief.

Apparently CP wanted to make the team tougher... and of course Stojanov got into a car accident that derailed his career.

Stojanov was going to bring a possible elite power forward back for Mario, something he missed once they traded Tocchet for some dumb reason. I hated losing Naslund but was excited about what they got back. Unfortunately, Alex lost a fight, got injured and then had a car crash.