The All Things Sprong Containment Thread

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jesus Christ that new Mackey article about Sprong is why I hate Pittsburgh media. Just some of the **** he says screams - I got told to write this so fans aren't mad we royally ****ed up.

It now makes sense why Sprong didn't shoot more. Sullivan didn't want a shooter with Sid And Geno, he wanted them to shoot more not the kid.

But he goes on to say it's because Sid And Geno didn't like playing with him is why it never worked.


What?

Did Sully and JR pay Mackey out of their own ****ing pocket?

20 Penguins Thoughts: The truth about why Daniel Sprong was traded

Nothing really new there in that article. Sprong was never a guy that played the boards well, but he’s pretty damn good at playing the give and go game. So it’s a little eye roll worthy, but a small matter because Sprong wasn’t going to be on Sullivan’s roster as I’ve said ad nauseam.

I will say the thing about the article that annoys me is that part that discusses how players Sullivan and Crosby want can play a speed game, get dirty in the corners, play a give and go game, etc... and ZAR is literally quite bad at all three aspects of these coveted traits.

But the org is determined to keep brainwashing ppl about him I guess.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Literally everything Mackey said in that article is reasonable. Just because you don't agree with the perfectly logical justifications that the Penguins had for trading Sprong doesn't mean that they're not valid justifications. This entire point has been what a ton of people here have been saying:



And this is a perfectly fair point too:

How many mins did he play with Malkin? Lol. Right. Riiiiight.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How many mins did he play with Malkin? Lol. Right. Riiiiight.

How does that have any relevance to what Mackey said? Sprong not getting a chance next to Malkin is entirely irrelevant of what Mackey said there.

What Mackey said was very clear, they want Malkin shooting, and if they're going to put a shooter with Malkin, it was going to be Kessel. Sprong didn't show enough for the Penguins to play him on Malkin's line, over Kessel or players that would have Malkin shoot more. That's completely fair and an entirely valid point, you disagreeing with it doesn't make it invalid.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Nothing really new there in that article. Sprong was never a guy that played the boards well, but he’s pretty damn good at playing the give and go game. So it’s a little eye roll worthy, but a small matter because Sprong wasn’t going to be on Sullivan’s roster as I’ve said ad nauseam.

I will say the thing about the article that annoys me is that part that discusses how players Sullivan and Crosby want can play a speed game, get dirty in the corners, play a give and go game, etc... and ZAR is literally quite bad at all three aspects of these coveted traits.

But the org is determined to keep brainwashing ppl about him I guess.

He talks about him not being a fit with Malkin. Even a blind man could tell you that's wrong and he barely got much time with Geno to even get near a conclusion like that

 

[Honour Over Glory]

How does that have any relevance to what Mackey said? Sprong not getting a chance next to Malkin is entirely irrelevant of what Mackey said there.

He says he didn't look good with Malkin - he's wrong.

He said he was tried there and they didn't like him there - how many minutes did they try?

It's bs and you know it.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Pens traded a guy playing 6 minutes a night for a legit good young Dman. Win Win trade.

Clearly the Ducks don't mind Sprong's short comings.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I really wish fans would be able to differentiate things they disagree with, and things that are actually stupid. A media member giving legitimate justifications for a move the team made isn't the team being stupid because you disagree with the move. At that point, you're teetering on arrogance, a hilariously undeserved level of arrogance.

And as the Penguins transformed themselves into a speed-based team, Sprong actually became less of a fit and was forced to develop his all-around game in the American Hockey League

This flat-out frames Sprong going to WBS out of Juniors as a negative, and implies that it wasn't the plan for him all along (like it is with almost every single prospect here and everywhere else). So yeah, that one specific line, it's pretty dumb, no two-ways around it. Maybe more malevolent and intentionally misleading than dumb, actually. I'm sure he knows what he's doing here. Pretty sure at least.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He says he didn't look good with Malkin - he's wrong.

He said he was tried there and they didn't like him there - how many minutes did they try?

It's bs and you know it.

You are aware we all have access to the same article you do, right? Here was the quote:

Sullivan has long wanted Malkin to shoot more, and the only exception he’s really made to this is deploying Kessel with him. While one day Sprong might get there, he never did enough to make the Penguins comfortable choosing him over Kessel alongside Malkin.

Mackey never said Sprong was tried with Malkin or he didn't look good with Malkin. He said Sprong didn't do enough for the Penguins to choose Sprong over Kessel to play with Malkin, he never talked about how each had done with Malkin.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This flat-out frames Sprong going to WBS out of Juniors as a negative, and implies that it wasn't the plan for him all along (like it is with almost every single prospect here and everywhere else). So yeah, that one specific line, it's pretty dumb, no two-ways around it. Maybe more malevolent and intentionally misleading than dumb, actually. I'm sure he knows what he's doing here. Pretty sure at least.

You're reaching at semantics to try and paint a picture that fits your agenda. You're deciding how you want to read that to act like Mackey is somehow intentionally misleading fans.

 

[PensandCaps]

Both can be true. Sprong was horribly misued and he also didn't do himself any favors and didn't fit the team.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Both can be true. Sprong was horribly misued and he also didn't do himself any favors and didn't fit the team.

I'm pretty sure no one disagrees that Sprong was grossly misused here, the thing people disagree on is that one side thinks Sprong did nothing wrong and was solely screwed over, and the other side thinks Sprong was screwed over because he was doing so many things wrong.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

What Mackey said was very clear, they want Malkin shooting, and if they're going to put a shooter with Malkin, it was going to be Kessel. Sprong didn't show enough for the Penguins to play him on Malkin's line, over Kessel or players that would have Malkin shoot more. That's completely fair and an entirely valid point, you disagreeing with it doesn't make it invalid

That's even more egregious on Sullivan if so. The last time Geno hit 50, he had Neal on his wing potting 40. Putting another shooting threat on a player's line will also open up more room for said player because teams now have to respect more than one shot.

Obviously, Geno is a first-ballot HOFer, so sometimes it doesn't matter who he plays with (see: the glorious beast-mode stretch of HGH last season). But if Sully's ideal plan to get an all-world playmaker going is to deliberately put worse players with him so he's forced to shoot more, then, yeeesh.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

You're reaching at semantics to try and paint a picture that fits your agenda. You're deciding how you want to read that to act like Mackey is somehow intentionally misleading fans.

I don't know man. I don't know the last time somebody used "forced" in a positive context when referring to somebody going somewhere, let alone a hockey player going to the minors. It's not like Jason "Trade Kessel" Mackey is a beacon of objective, insightful journalism. To act like Pens' journalists in the past haven't sometimes been mouthpieces for the org and spun narratives they want fans to see is just being willfully naïve.

 

[Gurglesons]

Both can be true. Sprong was horribly misued and he also didn't do himself any favors and didn't fit the team.

Which is pretty much what Mackey says in that article?

 

[Gurglesons]

That's even more egregious on Sullivan if so. The last time Geno hit 50, he had Neal on his wing potting 40. Putting another shooting threat on a player's line will also open up more room for said player because teams now have to respect more than one shot.

Obviously, Geno is a first-ballot HOFer, so sometimes it doesn't matter who he plays with (see: the glorious beast-mode stretch of HGH last season). But if Sully's ideal plan to get an all-world playmaker going is to deliberately put worse players with him so he's forced to shoot more, then, yeeesh.

You can criticize Sullivan’s decision but Mackey is basically just laying out what he was told.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Mackey is basically just laying out what he was told.

Yes, exactly, thank you.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

He talks about him not being a fit with Malkin. Even a blind man could tell you that's wrong and he barely got much time with Geno to even get near a conclusion like that

Well, when you have a rising supernova like ZAR to put with Malkin...

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, exactly, thank you.

I don’t agree with your points. You just said Kessel, Hagelin and Pearson are worse players than Sprong.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well, when you have a rising supernova like ZAR to put with Malkin...

Let’s make rash judgements about our line-up when we are missing two top six forwards.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Both can be true. Sprong was horribly misued and he also didn't do himself any favors and didn't fit the team.

This.

Why is anyone upset about this trade? Sprong would have never been more than a 4th liner under Sullivan.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Nothing really new there in that article. Sprong was never a guy that played the boards well, but he’s pretty damn good at playing the give and go game. So it’s a little eye roll worthy, but a small matter because Sprong wasn’t going to be on Sullivan’s roster as I’ve said ad nauseam.

I will say the thing about the article that annoys me is that part that discusses how players Sullivan and Crosby want can play a speed game, get dirty in the corners, play a give and go game, etc... and ZAR is literally quite bad at all three aspects of these coveted traits.

But the org is determined to keep brainwashing ppl about him I guess.

I am one inane Sully comment away from challenging him to a duel..

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Let’s make rash judgements about our line-up when we are missing two top six forwards.

And once again another poster fails to understand what depth actually is.

I am one inane Sully comment away from challenging him to a duel..

With pistols or like, sporks?

 

[Andy99]

Let’s make rash judgements about our line-up when we are missing two top six forwards.

I’d be interested to know how many people think ZAR will be moved off G’s wing when Horny and Simon return.....because I don’t think so...Horny’s solely a RW and Simon will either play with Sid or on L3 as been the case entirely this year....Phil will be more likely to be moved off G’s wing than ZAR unless either someone is traded or ZAR starts playing a lot worse than he is in the coaches’ minds .....I have no idea what the coaching staff sees that’s top 6 worthy in a player who doesn’t forecheck well, doesn’t win board battles, doesn’t pass particularly well or score goals all that much...but whatever, they love him...

 

[Gurglesons]

I’d be interested to know how many people think ZAR will be moved off G’s wing when Horny and Simon return.....because I don’t think so...Horny’s solely a RW and Simon will either play with Sid or on L3 as been the case entirely this year....Phil will be more likely to be moved off G’s wing than ZAR unless either someone is traded or ZAR starts playing a lot worse than he is in the coaches’ minds .....I have no idea what the coaching staff sees that’s top 6 worthy in a player who doesn’t forecheck well, doesn’t win board battles, doesn’t pass particularly well or score goals all that much...but whatever, they love him...

If Simon is on L3 as a RW that means Rust is on L4 or LW if he is on the LW we have Tanner Pearson still.

 

[Andy99]

If Simon is on L3 as a RW that means Rust is on L4 or LW if he is on the LW we have Tanner Pearson still.

Simon played RW with Sid and LW on L3....the lineup could go when healthy...
Jake-Sid-Simon/Rust
ZAR-G-Kessel
Pearson-Brass-Horny
Grant-Cullen/Sheahan-Simon/Rust

Someone will sit, most likely between Grant, Cullen or Sheahan, but my guess is that Brass will be traded...
In other words, you can produce a viable lineup playing ZAR with G when healthy if the coaches so want...