The All Things Sprong Containment Thread

[edog37]

and Sprong is special. Got it. Like I said, you're impossible to actually discuss this with because you are sooooooo sure that Sprong is a player that he simply hasn't shown to be at this point. And you will just ignore the other wings he's competing with for that spot. Seriously, Sprong was solid tonight. He certainly wasn't special.

he was hardly noticeable. played the perimeter, which won't cut it into the league. He's soft...meanwhile, Rust was getting into the dirty areas & scoring. But then again, Rust is a far better player...

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

By far the weirdest development in the Sprong saga is the false revisionist history that it was a Sprong or Rust situation. There was room for both, especially since Rust has plenty of experience on the left side, an area where the team is still lacking. So odd.

 

[NMK11]

You're seeing two different coaching philosophies at work - make a player overcome his weaknesses before he plays, or put a player in a position to use his strengths and hope they outweigh the bad. Neither philosophy will work for the development of every player. All Anaheim wants Sprong to do is shoot the puck, and it seems to be working.

Putting aside the debate on how Sully feels about Sprong, I think this is a good overall analysis. I think the teams are in very different positions as well which affects this. Anaheim can afford to do the latter, as well as they're doing I don't think they are serious contenders this year. We're essentially Cup or bust for a bit, so I'm not sure we fall into that category and trend toward the former philosophy.

By far the weirdest development in the Sprong saga is the false revisionist history that it was a Sprong or Rust situation. There was room for both, especially since Rust has plenty of experience on the left side, an area where the team is still lacking. So odd.

Even if you move Rust to LW, Sprong is still competing with Simon on top of Horny and Kessel. Yeah, injuries happen, but fully healthy he's still our fourth best RW.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

By far the weirdest development in the Sprong saga is the false revisionist history that it was a Sprong or Rust situation. There was room for both, especially since Rust has plenty of experience on the left side, an area where the team is still lacking. So odd.

AND the fact that Sprong stated he's played the left side before.
Did the AHL team experiment at all with that possibility so he'd be prepped if we needed him at LW?

Again this is why I state the organization failed Sprong in so many ways. You want to say he's not an NHL player ok. But don't tell me they didn't pigeon hole him down in WBS as a RW when the big club was DESPERATE for LWers.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Even if you move Rust to LW, Sprong is still competing with Simon on top of Horny and Kessel. Yeah, injuries happen, but fully healthy he's still our fourth best RW.

Simon is also more of a LW than RW. He's RW with Sid (when Jake is also there), but he's been primarily LW on any other line he's been on prior to that.

Again, of all the arguments to make, it's a strange one, at least in terms of being a primary reason for lack of opportunity. It's obvious there were bigger factors in play apart from personnel logistics.

 

[Gurglesons]

Daddy Sprong Legs is a good nickname?

 

[Gurglesons]

AND the fact that Sprong stated he's played the left side before.
Did the AHL team experiment at all with that possibility so he'd be prepped if we needed him at LW?

Again this is why I state the organization failed Sprong in so many ways. You want to say he's not an NHL player ok. But don't tell me they didn't pigeon hole him down in WBS as a RW when the big club was DESPERATE for LWers.

When did the org ever say he wasn’t an NHLer?

He didn’t fit.

 

[NMK11]

Simon is also more of a LW than RW. He's RW with Sid (when Jake is also there), but he's been primarily LW on any other line he's been on prior to that.

Again, of all the arguments to make, it's a strange one, at least in terms of being a primary reason for lack of opportunity. It's obvious there were bigger factors in play apart from personnel logistics.

I guess, but Simon fits best playing RW with our best player and so should stay there until it fails. That functionally puts him in the RW category. You can't put Simon on the left away from where he fits best on the team and then put Rust on the left where he's played less and worse all to make top 9 room for a guy who's not forcing the issue.

I agree that there are other things that were more important in this whole debacle, but I think it's equally strange that people are trying to argue that he didn't need to outperform three or four guys.

AND the fact that Sprong stated he's played the left side before.
Did the AHL team experiment at all with that possibility so he'd be prepped if we needed him at LW?

Again this is why I state the organization failed Sprong in so many ways. You want to say he's not an NHL player ok. But don't tell me they didn't pigeon hole him down in WBS as a RW when the big club was DESPERATE for LWers.

I'll definitely agree with this. Of all the players to move over to the left, it should have been the one with the least playing time on the right in the NHL, Sprong. We knew Kessel and Horny were here for a while, he should have been played as a LW all last year in the AHL and tried there here.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Putting aside the debate on how Sully feels about Sprong, I think this is a good overall analysis. I think the teams are in very different positions as well which affects this. Anaheim can afford to do the latter, as well as they're doing I don't think they are serious contenders this year. We're essentially Cup or bust for a bit, so I'm not sure we fall into that category and trend toward the former philosophy.


Even if you move Rust to LW, Sprong is still competing with Simon on top of Horny and Kessel. Yeah, injuries happen, but fully healthy he's still our fourth best RW.

Except injuries can, do, and did happen. And he still didn't get a shot.

Hence the entire problem.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

he was hardly noticeable. played the perimeter, which won't cut it into the league. He's soft...meanwhile, Rust was getting into the dirty areas & scoring. But then again, Rust is a far better player...

In case you missed it Sprong has 3 goals, an assist, and a GW shootout goal in 6 games for Anaheim.

Which is about as much as Rust has done in the top 9 for the Pens in 30+ games.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Jesus Christ that new Mackey article about Sprong is why I hate Pittsburgh media. Just some of the shit he says screams - I got told to write this so fans aren't mad we royally f***ed up.

It now makes sense why Sprong didn't shoot more. Sullivan didn't want a shooter with Sid And Geno, he wanted them to shoot more not the kid.

But he goes on to say it's because Sid And Geno didn't like playing with him is why it never worked.


What?

Did Sully and JR pay Mackey out of their own f***ing pocket?

20 Penguins Thoughts: The truth about why Daniel Sprong was traded

 

[Honour Over Glory]

These are all such revolutionary ideas, you can hardly blame our coach for not implementing them.

Want a good laugh?

Read this garbage. This is how dumb our team and media is.

20 Penguins Thoughts: The truth about why Daniel Sprong was traded

 

[Coastal Kev]

What bothers me most and something I haven't seen discussed all that much is how Sully & Friends refused to live up to their responsibility as coaches.

Obviously Sprong was our most talented prospect on the roster, shouldn't they work with his perceived weaknesses?
Oh they tried...you will say.

Tried?? 2 months and change???? Imagine if Tomlin and Staff punted on James Washington after 2 months of failure? Well you won't have to imagine, because you will see the results of this poor decision as Sprong grows more comfortable with the Ducks.

quack quack

 

[Honour Over Glory]

In case you missed it Sprong has 3 goals, an assist, and a GW shootout goal in 6 games for Anaheim.

Which is about as much as Rust has done in the top 9 for the Pens in 30+ games.

That would make a GWG and a GWG in a shootout. BTW.

 

[themethod7]

no we can't. You're just ignoring every single bit of context, and pretending we didn't get a need back in return.

ok but was MP really a need though when it means we're now scratching Riikola? What happens when Schultz is back?? MP has been relatively steady but nothing special and certainly not irreplaceable. You could argue something similar re: Sprong (playing him means we scratch someone else) so I'm not sure where I'm going with this other than to say I don't really agree with calling MP a "need" so long as we continue to roster all of JJ/Maatta/Oleksiak/Riikola.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Literally everything Mackey said in that article is reasonable. Just because you don't agree with the perfectly logical justifications that the Penguins had for trading Sprong doesn't mean that they're not valid justifications. This entire point has been what a ton of people here have been saying:

Sprong is a lot of things — a terrific shooter and a goal-scorer at every level of hockey — but he’s not going to impress anyone with his all-around game. It’s average at best. Sprong’s fit within the framework of what Sullivan wanted the Penguins to do was never going to be easy, and because of the logjam ahead of Sprong on the depth chart, the young winger would have to score his way into the lineup. Sprong didn’t.

And as the Penguins transformed themselves into a speed-based team, Sprong actually became less of a fit and was forced to develop his all-around game in the American Hockey League. According to what the Penguins have told us, Sprong (mostly) did that, although he was never able to solve what ultimately became a Catch 22 situation. Sprong never scored enough to force Sullivan’s hand, and Sullivan — again, whose way of doing business netted the Penguins a pair of Cups — never felt compelled to promote Sprong.

And this is a perfectly fair point too:

Another thing that should not be discounted is how little Sprong fit with Crosby and Malkin, and how even they weren’t enamored with having him on their wing. Crosby has always fared well with — and preferred — wingers who can play a give-and-go game, use their speed, work some in the corners and operate in a straight-ahead sort of mode. Think Pascal Dupuis. That’s, uh, not Sprong, who relies on his shot and never grew comfortable supporting the play or doing anything remotely resembling dirty work alongside Crosby.

Sullivan has long wanted Malkin to shoot more, and the only exception he’s really made to this is deploying Kessel with him. While one day Sprong might get there, he never did enough to make the Penguins comfortable choosing him over Kessel alongside Malkin. Couple that with the fact that they’d prefer Hornqvist to play in the top-six — he’s a premium cap hit wasted if those on his line don’t generate enough trash for him to clean up — and it’s an imperfect equation.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

We haven't been a speed-based team since 2016. Yes, being a speed-based team is why ZAR was fed primo minutes until his game resembled that of an NHLer, among other roster decisions + signings.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jesus Christ that new Mackey article about Sprong is why I hate Pittsburgh media. Just some of the **** he says screams - I got told to write this so fans aren't mad we royally ****ed up.

It now makes sense why Sprong didn't shoot more. Sullivan didn't want a shooter with Sid And Geno, he wanted them to shoot more not the kid.

But he goes on to say it's because Sid And Geno didn't like playing with him is why it never worked.


What?

Did Sully and JR pay Mackey out of their own ****ing pocket?

20 Penguins Thoughts: The truth about why Daniel Sprong was traded

That isn’t what he said at all and everything Mackey is on point.

 

[Gurglesons]

We haven't been a speed-based team since 2016. Yes, being a speed-based team is why ZAR was fed primo minutes until his game resembled that of an NHLer, among other roster decisions + signings.

Good thing he’s referring to Sprong in the 15-16 season then.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Want a good laugh?

Read this garbage. This is how dumb our team and media is.

20 Penguins Thoughts: The truth about why Daniel Sprong was traded

Untethered to the truth.

 

[Turin]

We haven't been a speed-based team since 2016. Yes, being a speed-based team is why ZAR was fed primo minutes until his game resembled that of an NHLer, among other roster decisions + signings.

Pens were very fast in 2017 for a team missing Letang. Hell they were still one of the faster teams last year.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Pens were very fast in 2017 for a team missing Letang. Hell they were still one of the faster teams last year.

2016 we succeeded by taking the play to teams with our speed. 2017 we succeeded more often than not by surviving pressure and counter-attacking. No Letang obviously factored into that.

 

[Turin]

2016 we succeeded by taking the play to teams with our speed. 2017 we succeeded more often than not by surviving pressure and counter-attacking. No Letang obviously factored into that.

Yes but they were still fast. The Rangers of yesteryear were a counter attack, meh Corsi team but their forwards were extremely quick.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Good thing he’s referring to Sprong in the 15-16 season then.

Forgetting the fact Sprong had no business being on the roster in 15-16, if Mackey were doing that, he would've said "sent back to Juniors" not "forced to develop his all-around game in the AHL." So, no, he isn't. Mackey also frames Sprong going to WBS as if it somehow reflects negatively on him, which is again, dumb.

Regardless, tempo isn't the reason Sprong wasn't a fit, as there are players who both skate slower and play slower currently on the roster.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I really wish fans would be able to differentiate things they disagree with, and things that are actually stupid. A media member giving legitimate justifications for a move the team made isn't the team being stupid because you disagree with the move. At that point, you're teetering on arrogance, a hilariously undeserved level of arrogance.