Beats By CoRD
Tommy Fresh
Go back and read before coming to the rescue. Thats the main basis for SOV's argument.
*The All-Purpose Sean Monahan Thread*
- Thread starter Beats By CoRD
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Go back and read before coming to the rescue. Thats the main basis for SOV's argument.
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
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I guess that could be true, but you guys are now basically claiming you are smarter than Burke and co. Please keep going with that. It's entertaining.
And not once have any one used reaction gifs. Am I on crazy pills here?
Only "points" SOV has made is that Monahan is lucky and Sven is unlucky. Yeah.. solid.
It's a pretty solid point when one guy's personal shooting percentage is 300% the other guys, and his on-ice shooting percentage is 120% the other guy's. I've made a lot of observational statements about the two of them as well, which have generally been either ignored or simply disagreed with (which is fine, since none of us are putting up any actual evidence for that stuff).
@InfinityIggy: Never, not once, did I say Baertschi was bad only because of bad luck. I said it's made him look worse than he has been. Again, the only thing I said is that Baertschi has been better than Monahan. That doesn't mean he's been good. It mean's Monahan has been worse than you guys apparently think he has.
I get that Monahan has awesome hair, but that's no reason to blind yourself to his faults. He's young, and they're expected.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Beats By CoRD
Tommy Fresh
So because of Monahans better shooting% he should be sent down?
I realize that's not what you're saying but we're kinda going in circles now.
Beats By CoRD
Tommy Fresh
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Beats By CoRD
Tommy Fresh
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
So because of Monahans better shooting% he should be sent down?
Going back to the start of the conversation, I don't know if anyone is actually arguing for Monahan's demotion, or even Baertschi staying up (maybe that's somewhere in there). I think the discussion is purely about whether Monahan has really been better than Baertschi this year. The different situations go both ways. I don't want Monahan sent down to the CHL, and I don't really mind Baertschi in the AHL, but because of their different situations, not because I think Monahan is better at NHL hockey.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Really. So what other reasons have you pointed to. It seems to be the entire basis of your argument.
SmellOfVictory
Registered User
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So because of Monahans better shooting% he should be sent down?
Circles are the most beautiful shape.
It's all there, if you care to read a novel. Mostly refusing the "perimeter player" arguments that you guys were making about Baertschi. Playing along the boards does not make a player a perimeter player. But there are various things peppered in there. CoRD is right, though; we are just going in circles and I think everyone has made their points at least two or three times over by now. Since we've reached a complete standoff, I'm declaring victory on no basis whatsoever.
SmellOfVictory
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I agree with this 100%, and I think it helps clarify the overarching argument, which might have gotten lost a bit in the minutiae.
I Hate Blake Coleman
Bandwagon Burner
Sven is better than Monahan because luck.
Monahan has been unquestionably better since the first game of the season.
Monahan has been unquestionably better since the first game of the season.
Beats By CoRD
Tommy Fresh
Sven is better than Monahan because luck.
Monahan has been unquestionably better since the first game of the season.
That's all I got out of it.
Taranis
Registered User
It speaks volumes that a rookie center who still needs to pack on some weight, improve his faceoff percentage and who wears a boot when not in skates while recovering from a foot injury is able to play in the NHL and Sven is not.
SmellOfVictory
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Okay holy crap, does nobody understand that there is a massive difference between AHL eligible and AHL ineligible players? Or that both coaches and GMs have favourites? Look at what Keenan did to Tanguay years ago, for example. He full-on drove the guy out of town because he misused him so badly, despite Tanguay being one of the best forwards on the team outside of Iginla.
Oh, your argument is super compelling. As soon as you use the word "unquestionably" it's like your opinion becomes a hard fact.Sven is better than Monahan because luck.
Monahan has been unquestionably better since the first game of the season.
Additionally, that's a terrible logical fallacy you created. Once again, I said BAERTSCHI WAS BETTER THAN MONAHAN BUT LOOKED WORSE BECAUSE OF LUCK. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT, THEREFORE, BAERTSCHI IS BETTER THAN MONAHAN BECAUSE OF LUCK. The worst part about this entire argument is people misrepresenting what I actually said. I don't give a crap if you don't agree, but at least disagree based on my actual words.
Of course, you're all right. Luck never comes into play, especially with a piece of rubber being launched around a 200 foot surface between 10 people at a time. Everything is entirely planned and intended.
Taranis
Registered User
Not sure why your taking a shot at me bro, my point was Monahan was kept up because of the position he plays and his natural attributes leading to a defensive ability over a small winger who needs to put points on the board to be deemed a success.
I Hate Blake Coleman
Bandwagon Burner
Maybe if it wasn't such a stupid ****ing argument in the first place. You can't quantify or measure luck therefore you can get away with saying BS like "Sven was better but looked worse."
SmellOfVictory
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Sorry, natural response when it feels like you have half a dozen people arguing with you and probably not even reading half the stuff you write. My response wasn't as much directed at your specific post as the fact that it's been brought up as an arguing point that Sven was sent down while Monahan stayed up, and that was treated as a simple question of who's better. When realistically there are tons of factors that go into it (as you mentioned, position, where the Flames are weak at centre they're deepest at LW, AHL eligibility, etc.)
Taranis
Registered User
Yeah I get the whole ganged up on thing on this forum, but its all a matter of personal opinion anyway, so meh.
Wasn't Baertschi covering some of Monahan's defensive assignments early on in the season?
SmellOfVictory
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Sure you can. What do you call variance in shooting percentage, if not luck? There's a very standard, relatively small range in baseline shooting percentage in the NHL. The overall average is 8.89%; that's including defencemen. Sven's shooting percentage is below that. This is an assumption, but I'm assuming that Sven, being an offensively-oriented first round draft pick, is not a below average shooter by default. That implies bad luck.
On the opposite side of the coin, we have Monahan, shooting at 20%. That is 2.5x the league average (or if you're just looking at forwards, it's not quite 2.5x, but it's still grossly higher). Yes, he is a smart player and he's taken a lot of shots from in tight, so it's entirely likely that he's an above average shooter. It is not, however, likely that he is a 20% shooter by default, as there are incredibly few players who can achieve that on a career basis. That implies good luck.
Or if you want another term, variance. Or whatever. The point being that this stretch of games has seen an above expected number of pucks go in for Monahan and a below average expected number of pucks go in for Baertschi. And I think this disparity is causing people to favour Monahan between the two.
Beats By CoRD
Tommy Fresh
Taranis
Registered User
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
