The All Purpose Off Day Thread |

[Peat]

I think that for the first time in a long time, I am content with the Pens lines. Maybe they could be better, but I don't mind giving form combinations a chance to keep running.

 

[madinsomniac]

What the hell is Sully's infatuation with having Rust/Sid play together?

Nhl coach-itis, it can be fatal to careers... he should get that treated

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

They are five mil under and lose Enstrom whenever Trouba is up. I’ll be shocked if they let Wheeler walk.

Right, but Laine alone is probably going to be in the 10-11 mil range to re-sign, and if Ehlers is a comparable for Connor they're probably looking at another 6 mil per there too. I can't imagine an emerging team like the Jets want to give up an elite 20-21 year old winger for the sake of Wheeler at 33 through 40, and allotting 30+ mil to 4 wingers probably isn't the best allocation of cap resources either.

It's a tough situation. I'm interested to see how it plays out.

 

[DearDiary]

Teams are playing the Pens much harder than anyone else, they're being used as a measuring stick every game. As someone who watches many teams play, it's very common to see other teams play like crap, play the Pens with full effort and then go back to their low effort play. The Pens current record is great considering that they're not getting any easy games, even against the bottom feeders.

Obviously the negative is that the Pens specifically have to play hard for 82 games to win, even though they're already worn out from the last 2 seasons. I wouldn't worry too much about anything other than players being able to be rested before the playoffs start.

 

[ColePens]

Teams are playing the Pens much harder than anyone else, they're being used as a measuring stick every game. As someone who watches many teams play, it's very common to see other teams play like crap, play the Pens with full effort and then go back to their low effort play. The Pens current record is great considering that they're not getting any easy games, even against the bottom feeders.

Obviously the negative is that the Pens specifically have to play hard for 82 games to win, even though they're already worn out from the last 2 seasons. I wouldn't worry too much about anything other than players being able to be rested before the playoffs start.

I'll call shenanigans on this simple comment. Last year, I would have agreed with you more. When it comes to NJ - maybe i'll give you that. There is no evidence to back that up and quite honestly i'm still seeing consistency among the teams we are playing as they play other teams. Especially as of late.

 

[DearDiary]

I'll call shenanigans on this simple comment. Last year, I would have agreed with you more. When it comes to NJ - maybe i'll give you that. There is no evidence to back that up and quite honestly i'm still seeing consistency among the teams we are playing as they play other teams. Especially as of late.

Shenanigans? Of course, everything I do seems to have an agenda in your mind

It's just my opinion, no facts or evidence to back it.

 

[Gurglesons]

All of that would seem to be concerning at this time of year. Then you look at the fact they are still 7-2-2 in their past 11 games and you start to remember, hey, these guys are pretty good and they gave up a lot of chances a year ago, too.
There is something else that needs to be kept in mind: They are still playing better right now than they were a year ago heading into the playoffs, where they ended up winning the Stanley Cup for the second year in a row.

The fact they actually won the Cup a year ago seems to overshadow the fact they didn’t exactly go into the playoffs last season like a dominant powerhouse. They lost eight of their final 15 games (including six of their final 10), finished the season 22nd overall on the penalty kill, and allowed the fourth most shots on goal per game. They didn’t exactly play great in the first two rounds, either, getting through Columbus and Washington thanks largely to great goaltending carrying them.

So let’s take a look at their recent performance this season where they are actually playing really well down the stretch, even if it can look a little sloppy at times.
Even with their recent slump on the PK they are still better than they were at the end of last season (17th this season vs. 21st this year) and are giving up the sixth fewest shots per game.

But let’s take a look at a more isolated stretch of games, specifically the past 11, and what they were doing at the same time a year ago.

Offensively they are averaging a full goal per game more, recording more shots, giving up fewer shots, and are one of the best possession teams in the league as opposed to being one of the worst.

The two drops are a slight increase in goals against and a worse penalty kill. It’s easy to blame the penalty kill slump on losing Ian Cole as part of the Derick Brassard trade, but that would also be kind of lazy. The Penguins played without Cole for 15 games earlier this season when he was on the team and never saw that sort of a drop in their play (while using mostly the same players).
The big change is in net where Matt Murray has been up and down at times when he has been healthy, while backups Casey DeSmith and Tristan Jarry have simply not played well. It is probably not a coincidence that the PK started to fall apart recently when Murray went down with an injury and missed nearly a month and the Penguins had to turn to a career minor leaguer and a pretty good prospect that probably is not quite ready for full-time NHL action.

If Murray is healthy and playing the way he was before his most recent injury (he was 8-0-1 with a .926 save percentage in nine starts before missing a month) they are going to be a force to deal with in the playoffs.

Oh, really?

So, as I’ve said this team is worse than 2016, but better than 2017. We should be able to win another cup with a little luck on our side and solid goaltending which Murray already provided.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right, but Laine alone is probably going to be in the 10-11 mil range to re-sign, and if Ehlers is a comparable for Connor they're probably looking at another 6 mil per there too. I can't imagine an emerging team like the Jets want to give up an elite 20-21 year old winger for the sake of Wheeler at 33 through 40, and allotting 30+ mil to 4 wingers probably isn't the best allocation of cap resources either.

It's a tough situation. I'm interested to see how it plays out.

Elhers and Connor are light years apart, though.

They lose five million with Enstrom and essentially hand that to Trouba.

I doubt Wheeler gets more than seven million on a new deal which is a two million jncrease. They’ll be fine. Plus their farm is still STACKED.

 

[ColePens]

Shenanigans? Of course, everything I do seems to have an agenda in your mind

It's just my opinion, no facts or evidence to back it.

I don't know you? Or at least you haven't posted here for a while? I honestly don't care either way. My opinion is as worthless as the next.

 

[Shady Machine]

Elhers and Connor are light years apart, though.

They lose five million with Enstrom and essentially hand that to Trouba.

I doubt Wheeler gets more than seven million on a new deal which is a two million jncrease. They’ll be fine. Plus their farm is still STACKED.

And they can just get rid of Perrault if they really need to shed cap up front.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Elhers and Connor are light years apart, though.

They're really not. In fact, I don't see how that argument is supported. Connor already has more goals this season than Ehlers' career-high, and his P/G is comparable to Ehlers last year and this year.

I doubt Wheeler gets more than seven million on a new deal which is a two million jncrease. They’ll be fine. Plus their farm is still STACKED.

Why would the 3rd highest scoring winger over the last 5 years (behind only Kane and Ovechkin: https://www.hockey-reference.com/pl...=W&is_playoffs=N&threshhold=5&order_by=points), who's presently 8th in league scoring, sign for less than 7 mil per when a guy like Lucic is signing for 6 mil per? Doesn't make sense.

 

[pistolpete11]

Teams are playing the Pens much harder than anyone else, they're being used as a measuring stick every game. As someone who watches many teams play, it's very common to see other teams play like crap, play the Pens with full effort and then go back to their low effort play. The Pens current record is great considering that they're not getting any easy games, even against the bottom feeders.

Obviously the negative is that the Pens specifically have to play hard for 82 games to win, even though they're already worn out from the last 2 seasons. I wouldn't worry too much about anything other than players being able to be rested before the playoffs start.

I'll call shenanigans on this simple comment. Last year, I would have agreed with you more. When it comes to NJ - maybe i'll give you that. There is no evidence to back that up and quite honestly i'm still seeing consistency among the teams we are playing as they play other teams. Especially as of late.

I think it could be true earlier in the season. Now though, teams are either looking forward to the offseason or fighting for a playoff spot/seeding. Some random game in December though, sure, the other team might be a little more focused playing the Pens than they would be for the Red Wings or something.

 

[Ryder71]

I'm sure teams do get up for us, but considering how tight the playoff races are in all divisions, I suspect every team is doing their best to put their best foot forward regardless of the opponent. Interestingly enough I'm not sure we are viewing things with the same level or degree of urgency. Particularly regarding Gap, D zone coverage and the fact we're being overly aggressive with our D pinching at in opportune times. In other words we're the problem in that scenario. We're our own worst enemy and need to be more fundamentally sound. That in and of itself would help quite a bit.

 

[Gurglesons]

They're really not. In fact, I don't see how that argument is supported. Connor already has more goals this season than Ehlers' career-high, and his P/G is comparable to Ehlers last year and this year.

Why would the 3rd highest scoring winger over the last 5 years (behind only Kane and Ovechkin: https://www.hockey-reference.com/pl...=W&is_playoffs=N&threshhold=5&order_by=points), who's presently 8th in league scoring, sign for less than 7 mil per when a guy like Lucic is signing for 6 mil per? Doesn't make sense.

Same reason Buff, Little and others have taken pay cuts. The Jets also took a chance on Wheeler when two other teams wouldn’t. I’m sure he could get more than seven million if he wants, he just doesn’t strike me as that kind of player.

Elhers is sneaky, sneaky good and maybe it is just personal preference. I could easily see the Jets start to play hard ball with players like Connor like they did with Trouba. They have plenty of wing prospects and he is playing on the first line.

 

[Peat]

Right, but Laine alone is probably going to be in the 10-11 mil range to re-sign, and if Ehlers is a comparable for Connor they're probably looking at another 6 mil per there too. I can't imagine an emerging team like the Jets want to give up an elite 20-21 year old winger for the sake of Wheeler at 33 through 40, and allotting 30+ mil to 4 wingers probably isn't the best allocation of cap resources either.

It's a tough situation. I'm interested to see how it plays out.

Any chance Jets decide to have Wheeler take up a more permanent centre role to rationalise things?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Same reason Buff, Little and others have taken pay cuts. The Jets also took a chance on Wheeler when two other teams wouldn’t. I’m sure he could get more than seven million if he wants, he just doesn’t strike me as that kind of player.

Buff presently has the 5th highest cap hit among defenseman in the league, and when he signed the deal he was 3rd. He in no way took a discount. Little took less than a healthy player of his ability could get on the open market, but he had been a band-aid the previous few seasons.

Neither of these suggest the sort of haircut Wheeler would have to take to get below 7 mil per. For reference, your prediction of "below 7 mil per" would presently put him at just the 7th highest paid RW, and 12th among all wingers.

Elhers is sneaky, sneaky good and maybe it is just personal preference. I could easily see the Jets start to play hard ball with players like Connor like they did with Trouba. They have plenty of wing prospects and he is playing on the first line.

Did you see the game last night? Because Connor was the best player on either team, and not by a little. He was driving play every time he was out there.

Barring a drop in performance, I think the Jets would be hard-pressed to explain why Connor wouldn't deserve the same as Ehlers' per annum on his next deal, at the very least.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Any chance Jets decide to have Wheeler take up a more permanent centre role to rationalise things?

I haven't come across anything like that, but if the Jets were to retain him, maybe that's an option to address the problem of having so much money tied up on the wings.

 

[Peat]

I haven't come across anything like that, but if the Jets were to retain him, maybe that's an option to address the problem of having so much money tied up on the wings.

I'm pretty sure he's been playing a lot of centre for them this year due to injury, but no idea how good he's been or how likely they would be to keep him there.

 

[Gurglesons]

Buff presently has the 5th highest cap hit among defenseman in the league, and when he signed the deal he was 3rd. He in no way took a discount. Little took less than a healthy player of his ability could get on the open market, but he had been a band-aid the previous few seasons.

Neither of these suggest the sort of haircut Wheeler would have to take to get below 7 mil per. For reference, your prediction of "below 7 mil per" would presently put him at just the 7th highest paid RW, and 12th among all wingers.



Did you see the game last night? Because Connor was the best player on either team, and not by a little. He was driving play every time he was out there.

Barring a drop in performance, I think the Jets would be hard-pressed to explain why Connor wouldn't deserve the same as Ehlers' per annum on his next deal, at the very least.

Buff took five years.

Let’s agree to disagree. I don’t see the Jets having any financial difficulties retaining their core. Considering their prospect depth, they can easily play arbitration with their younger players.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm pretty sure he's been playing a lot of centre for them this year due to injury, but no idea how good he's been or how likely they would be to keep him there.

Adjusted pretty well but took a hit on offense at ES. Whether that makes him worth the price for the numbers he put up as a winger, I don't know.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Let’s agree to disagree. I don’t see the Jets having any financial difficulties retaining their core. Considering their prospect depth, they can easily play arbitration with their younger players.

If they could, it didn't manifest in Ehlers' deal, and I doubt they can put the genie back in that bottle.

 

[Gurglesons]

If they could, it didn't manifest in Ehlers' deal, and I doubt they can put the genie back in that bottle.

I think they took the risk with Ehlers because he could easily explode into a 70-80 pt player with defensive chops.

They took the contract to get his cap number down.

They have two years before they have to start worrying. If they weren’t contenders this year I think you would've seen more off season surgery, but I think they have the same cap issues as every contender and their core outside of Laine is signed or RFA.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think they took the risk with Ehlers because he could easily explode into a 70-80 pt player with defensive chops.

They took the contract to get his cap number down.

They have two years before they have to start worrying. If they weren’t contenders this year I think you would've seen more off season surgery, but I think they have the same cap issues as every contender and their core outside of Laine is signed or RFA.

And the same could well apply to Connor. There's nothing to suggest that he isn't every bit as promising as Ehlers.

We just fundamentally disagree on what Wheeler and Connor will take. You're counting on both of them taking unprecedented haircuts to play in Winnipeg. Even as a native Winnipegger, I think that's unrealistic.

The Jets reckoning is the summer of '19. I don't see how they'll retain their top 4 wingers and remain a contender, and I don't see how they could justify parting with any of the young guys.

 

[Gurglesons]

But, they can bridge their young talent now. Even if Wheeler wants 8 million it’s less than 3 mill in real cap.

I think they will struggle to maintain depth pieces, but like they have Enstrom, Perrault, Myers, Kulikov, and Mason that could all be moved out for cap space for their young players.

I think Winnipeg’s management has poised them perfectly for a five year window.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

But, they can bridge their young talent now. Even if Wheeler wants 8 million it’s less than 3 mill in real cap.

I think they will struggle to maintain depth pieces, but like they have Enstrom, Perrault, Myers, Kulikov, and Mason that could all be moved out for cap space for their young players.

I think Winnipeg’s management has poised them perfectly for a five year window.

That's fair. We just part ways on how that's going to be accomplished. Any way you look at it, having so many great young players is always going to bode well for your chances.