Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread - It's Here!

[Peat]

If only they had a way to test stuff like that out before the games started to matter...

Six games. But team only wanted to put out the vets for four games, so really only four games. Nobody got all four of those games save Riikola, so three games. He got one game in completely ideal circs. Could have got two instead of one and one with Sheahan/Cullen (and honestly I thought he looked better with them), but would have got injured regardless probably... so they tested it to 50% of its capacity?

Even two games wouldn't have really been a test. I don't think pre-season was ever going to be enough one way or the other this time round.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I see what you're driving at but I just don't agree. They clearly have some very exacting standards he has to meet. So when the games don't count, at least put him in the best possible spot to meet those standards. As their best prospect (with no waiver options), it especially behooves them to do this.

 

[odiumutis]

While I agree about the situation in the pre-season, last season he had a stint of about 9-12 games in top-9 that I was already talking about, and I wasn't impressed to say the least.

So, the thing is - Sprong won't be getting top-6 spot just because he is promising and talented at offense.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

For me, it basically boils down to this: You have a prospect that's got heaps of potential as a scoring threat. You have three lines he would work well on, in theory, and to varying degrees--I think Hags-Geno is the best combo for him. You sent him down because his game wasn't rounded out enough last season, which I didn't really agree with and thought he was NHL ready and could work through the growing pains, but it is what it is. He tore the AHL up, and by all accounts he's worked on rounding out his game to be more responsible without the puck, and used the pre-season to showcase that to an impressive degree. You know young, purely offensive players, wingers especially, are notoriously streaky and confidence and a comfort level are paramount to their effectiveness. So, with all of that in mind, you put him on a line that stands to get the bulk of defensive responsibility/d-zone starts, roughly 10 minutes a night, and his center--whom a guy like Sprong (in the mold of James Neal) is going to rely on heavily for better or worse--is going to be Riley Sheahan. That's just about the worst possible avenue of attack you could go with regard to getting the most out of the kid and helping him develop, grow and become an effective and productive NHLer. That's Bylsma-level shortsighted. It just makes absolutely zero sense to me. At worst, you put him with Sid, Geno or Brass for a 10 game stint and if he's wholly inept or now showing any sort of pulse, you put him with Cullen-Sheahan in a reduced role so he can figure it out slowly--not the other way around. /shrug

Anyway, gym time. Excited for this season. This forward corps is as deep as it's ever been and likely ever will be, and I'm super excited about Riikola as well. If Letang returns to form (and manages to stay healthy for the playoffs), Murray bounces back, and we get the best out of our forwards, we're in a supremely good spot for challenging for another Cup.

 

[Peat]

I see what you're driving at but I just don't agree. They clearly have some very exacting standards he has to meet. So when the games don't count, at least put him in the best possible spot to meet those standards. As their best prospect (with no waiver options), it especially behooves them to do this.

They did for 3 of the games (just 2 of them would never end well). They didn't for 1... although Cullen and Sheahan drove more shots than Guentzel and Crosby that one game, and Sprong ended up with as many ES shots as both Guentzel and Crosby put together. So maybe that was them putting him in the best possible spot I kinda kid... but kinda don't. Cullen and Sheahan have a hell of a lot more to prove in pre-season than Guentzel/Crosby and played against far easier opposition when doing so. There's something to be said for being part of the former as a kid.

I'd have preferred he stuck with Guentzel and Crosby all the way through. But its really small change at the end of the day. Unless you wanted him to play every game or something.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I love Sheahan and Cullen. But I think it's possible he could have shown more of what they were looking for (whatever that is) next to a center more suited to cater to his skillset. Sort of like what Coach has been saying.

I also think it's possible that he's just on the road to bustdom because he simply doesn't have "it" like so many other prospects of his ilk from days passed who couldn't translate their game from a lower level. Guess we'll just have to see.

...or not... depending on how they handle him as the year progresses. This team is in as good a spot, developmental and coaching-wise, as I've seen in some time. But nobody is without fault and/or blind spots.

 

[Peat]

I love Sheahan and Cullen. But I think it's possible he could have shown more of what they were looking for (whatever that is) next to a center more suited to cater to his skillset. Sort of like what Coach has been saying.

I also think it's possible that he's just one the road to bustdom because he simply doesn't have "it" like so many other prospects of his ilk from days passed who couldn't translate their game from a lower level. Guess we'll just have to see.

...or not... depending on how they handle him as the year progresses. This team is in as good a spot, developmental and coaching-wise, as I've seen in some time. But nobody is without fault and/or blind spots.

Yeah, but we're talking one game where they didn't give him the best available platform. It's like we're complaining about the meal they sent, but other than sending fries rather than wedges its not on the server, its on us for going to Long John Silvers. Pre-season is the Long John Silvers of hockey.

(I know I've kinda made that point already but I loved that metaphor too much not to use it).

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Perhaps but it's also an ideal platform to test out combinations for chemistry and whatnot you might be reluctant to try in the regular season.

Preseason isn't completely worthless. Just like Long Johns still has tasty hush puppies (if you're drunk enough).

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I love Sheahan and Cullen. But I think it's possible he could have shown more of what they were looking for (whatever that is) next to a center more suited to cater to his skillset. Sort of like what Coach has been saying.

I also think it's possible that he's just one the road to bustdom because he simply doesn't have "it" like so many other prospects of his ilk from days passed who couldn't translate their game from a lower level. Guess we'll just have to see.

...or not... depending on how they handle him as the year progresses. This team is in as good a spot, developmental and coaching-wise, as I've seen in some time. But nobody is without fault and/or blind spots.

My issue with this take (not that it's yours) is that there's so little to base it on.

Elite junior production? Check.
Elite AHL production as a rookie? Check.
Good overall numbers in his limited NHL audition as a 20 year old? Check.

So the idea basically rests on a complementary sniper having an unspectacular preseason while playing with 4th line centers in 3 of 4 games.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not as lofty on his past NHL performances as you and some others are. And that's fine. I recognize some of the things he did as promising. But as a guy with a supposedly "elite shot" he needs to, well... score some damned goals. I'm just saying... prospects with Sprong's profile bust A LOT.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Wasn't he given the opportunity last year and in the pre-season?

Not exactly, no.

It takes more than 7-8 games with a young guy for him to find consistency.

Caps were patient with Vrana, and it paid off as he scored some killer goals agt their nemesis and helped get them over the Penguin hump. He was in a very similar position as Sprong last season as he was a top producer with the Bears and expected to fill a top six role in the cheap with the Caps.

However, Vrana had several bad stretches way worse than Sprong... 14 games with 2 points... 17 games with 1 point... 8 games with 1 point... even had a stretch of 1 goal in 25 games.

He obviously got shuffled around when he struggled and was health scratched I believe once or twice during the regular season and once in the playoffs. But the Caps stuck with him and kept giving him chances to work his way back, and look what happened.

 

[odiumutis]

Good overall numbers in his limited NHL audition as a 20 year old? Check.

What kind of numbers are we talking about? 2 goals in 18 games in 15/16 season, or 3 points in 8 game (actually 1 game) in 17/18 season?

Thank you.

 

[odiumutis]

It takes more than 7-8 games with a young guy for him to find consistency.

Caps were patient with Vrana, and it paid off as he scored some killer goals agt their nemesis and helped get them over the Penguin hump. He was in a very similar position as Sprong last season as he was a top producer with the Bears and expected to fill a top six role in the cheap with the Caps.

However, Vrana had several bad stretches way worse than Sprong... 14 games with 2 points... 17 games with 1 point... 8 games with 1 point... even had a stretch of 1 goal in 25 games.

He obviously got shuffled around when he struggled and was health scratched I believe once or twice during the regular season and once in the playoffs. But the Caps stuck with him and kept giving him chances to work his way back, and look what happened.

Yes, consistency. And in Vrana's case, he was on the 3rd or 4th line most of the time, usually going up and downs in the line-up and off it. So it's not surprising Sprong should take the similar way as well.

 

[Peat]

Perhaps but it's also an ideal platform to test out combinations for chemistry and whatnot you might be reluctant to try in the regular season.

Preseason isn't completely worthless. Just like Long Johns still has tasty hush puppies (if you're drunk enough).

Do you want to see the team try brand new combinations on every line/do you want the team to try a combination and stick with it, or try multiple combinations? More curiosity than anything.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yes, consistency. And in Vrana's case, he was on the 3rd or 4th line most of the time, usually going up and downs in the line-up and off it. So it's not surprising Sprong should take the similar way as well.

It’s fine if he takes that path, the whole point is it takes most young guys awhile to find consistency. Pointing to a 7-8 game sample is a little disingenuous. Only the elite young guys consistently produce, and that’s why you need top five picks to find those guys.

Even Guentzel who was quite consistent in the A and had a record breaking playoffs, struggled to be consistent last season... and he got to play with Crosby off the bat, yet still couldn’t find that consistency.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Do you want to see the team try brand new combinations on every line/do you want the team to try a combination and stick with it, or try multiple combinations? More curiosity than anything.

I would prefer, in the case of a supposedly high profile offensive prospect like Sprong, that they use the preseason to staple him to Crosby, Malkin or at least Brassard's flank and see where it goes. I might disagree with WC on some of the finer details of this debate (I think if he is who we hope he is he would have taken ANY opportunity more by the short and curlies) but I absolutely agree that sticking him with depth forwards who are mostly not even on the opening day roster, dusting your hands off and calling him a disappointment is pretty goofy.

 

[odiumutis]

Even Guentzel who was quite consistent in the A and had a record breaking playoffs, struggled to be consistent last season... and he got to play with Crosby off the bat, yet still couldn’t find that consistency.

But his overall game is much more valuable - defending, playing on the wall, carrying the puck, checking (he had most hits among forwards); that's why he's been on Sid's wing constantly, if you ask me.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not as lofty on his past NHL performances as you and some others are. And that's fine. I recognize some of the things he did as promising. But as a guy with a supposedly "elite shot" he needs to, well... score some damned goals. I'm just saying... prospects with Sprong's profile bust A LOT.

He did though Willy. Sprong scored 2 ES goals in his 8 games last year, which is as good a pace as any Pens forward outside of Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel.

What kind of numbers are we talking about? 2 goals in 18 games in 15/16 season, or 3 points in 8 game (actually 1 game) in 17/18 season?

Thank you.

The latter.

In 8 games last year he had 2 goals and 1 assist, had a better shot pace than any Pens forward but Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, and Hornqvist, and had very good possession stats.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

But his overall game is much more valuable - defending, playing on the wall, carrying the puck, checking (he had most hits among forwards); that's why he's been on Sid's wing constantly, if you ask me.

Sprong showed major strides in all those aspects of the game this preseason and largely got sharted on for it.

So I guess I'm a little confused...

 

[canadianguy77]

What kind of numbers are we talking about? 2 goals in 18 games in 15/16 season, or 3 points in 8 game (actually 1 game) in 17/18 season?

Thank you.

You should probably throw those numbers in the trash where they belong. Mike Johnson was coaching him then. (Dumb) People thought Sidney Crosby was finished as an elite hockey player. He shouldn't be held to a higher standard than 87.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You should probably throw those numbers in the trash where they belong. Mike Johnson was coaching him then. (Dumb) People thought Sidney Crosby was finished as an elite hockey player. He shouldn't be held to a higher standard than 87.

Very good point.

I'm trying to think of one thing that dude was good for. Considering how much he sat behind the bench with his mouth hanging open in some sort of confused fugue... maybe catching flies?

 

[chethejet]

When you have a 100 mph fastball, you live with the occasional pitch into the screen. Sprong has the offensive capabilities that can be special. He is young and needs time to learn the NHL level game. It is about his developing into a bog time scorer eventually.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

But his overall game is much more valuable - defending, playing on the wall, carrying the puck, checking (he had most hits among forwards); that's why he's been on Sid's wing constantly, if you ask me.

He also found his way off Crosby’s wing because he was playing poorly. Only the elite guys have that consistency from the start, except in some rare cases.

So even someone like Guentzel with a much more well rounded game, that went through the playoff grind and found major success, still wasn’t immune to a lack of consistency last season.

Sprong is also a goal scorer and most of them are notoriously streaky. So common sense tells us he is going to be a roller coaster as his NHL career gets off to a start.

 

[Peat]

Very good point.

I'm trying to think of one thing that dude was good for. Considering how much he sat behind the bench with his mouth hanging open in some sort of confused fugue... maybe catching flies?

Burnish MAF's career save percentage.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Burnish MAF's career save percentage.

AKA providing cultist ammunition.