Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread - It's Here!

[Peat]

AKA providing cultist ammunition.

Mike Johnston's Old Style Koolaid Stand.

 

[MrBurghundy]

He also found his way off Crosby’s wing because he was playing poorly. Only the elite guys have that consistency from the start, except in some rare cases.

So even someone like Guentzel with a much more well rounded game, that went through the playoff grind and found major success, still wasn’t immune to a lack of consistency last season.

Sprong is also a goal scorer and most of them are notoriously streaky. So common sense tells us he is going to be a roller coaster as his NHL career gets off to a start.

And with that, this place will be more unbearable than usual.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

And with that, this place will be more unbearable than usual.

I have no doubt he will be a HS at some point this season. I also know Sullivan isn’t overly fond of him, which is no secret now, so I might as well be forthcoming about it.

So I think there is a bit of bias agt him that he has to deal with, but I don’t believe Sullivan will cut off his own nose if Sprong shows he can help his club.

 

[Peat]

And with that, this place will be more unbearable than usual.

I'm looking forwards to the first time he gets onto a scoring line due to injury and is chucked off again in a couple of games when the player come backs. Or even better, the first time he has a hot streak on the 4th line, earns his promotion, and is sent back.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Mike Johnston's Old Style Koolaid Stand.

"Stop on by, I'm in way over my head!"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

"Oh shit... did I leave the stove on at home?!?"

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

"Stop on by, I'm in way over my head!"

Where did I put those dang car keys?

 

[Peat]

Maybe this is how we should spend next off-season. Penguins caption competition.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

"Stop on by, I'm in way over my head!"

"Where am I?"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

"Stop on by, I'm in way over my head!"

*cue Simon and Garfunkel*

"Hello darkness my old friend..."

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Sprong scored no goals besides the Islanders game in his stint last season. 7 games of no production. Doesn’t make much sense to reference “pace” there. Since he was not scoring and playing low sheltered minutes it was smart to send him back down. A positive from that stretch is Crosby/Simon (his linemates) didn’t do much ES scoring either and their possession stats were strong.

Also doesn’t make much sense to hold the 18 game sample against him, he should have been in juniors and the whole team sucked. Id throw that out the window.

Sprong needs to produce at the end of the day. He’ll get his chances. Sheahan and Cullen are two pretty good players to play him next to as well. They won’t be as demanding of him as Crosby is and are strong away from the puck. He’ll be in the mix on the second powerplay. Also, I wouldn’t get too hung up on forward line combos for opening night/early season anyway, they change like the weather.

Penguins would have traded him if they weren’t in love with his potiential. They want him to be a stud just as much as we do. I am optimistic he does well but also recognize that it’s time for him to be a player.

 

[RSPens]

The Penguins scratched a guy who was a part of 2 cup wins for them, one of which while playing top-4 minutes, in Ian Cole for Oleksiak last year. I disagree with this entirely, they've scratched better players and players with bigger contracts than him in the past.

I think people are grossly overestimating how secure of a spot Oleksiak has on this team. He has only been a regular for 50 regular season games, played less than Ruhwedel did in the playoffs last year and had a pretty underwhelming preseason. I don't doubt for a second that they'd scratch Oleksiak for Riikola if they think Riikola would help this team more.

The problem I have is that Riikola is on a one year contract. If Rutherford is trying to sign him longer term, then yes play him as much as possible. However if Riikola walks after this season, then we have Oleksiak to fall back on, and his development will be hindered if he's not playing this year. So I guess the question is...are we trying to win the cup this year? Or are we trying to win the cup this year, next year and the year after?

I am fine with playing Riikola, but only if we are trying to sign him longer term.

 

[Shady Machine]

The problem I have is that Riikola is on a one year contract. If Rutherford is trying to sign him longer term, then yes play him as much as possible. However if Riikola walks after this season, then we have Oleksiak to fall back on, and his development will be hindered if he's not playing this year. So I guess the question is...are we trying to win the cup this year? Or are we trying to win the cup this year, next year and the year after?

I am fine with playing Riikola, but only if we are trying to sign him longer term.

If he plays well I'm sure JR will extend him.

 

[odiumutis]

In 8 games last year he had 2 goals and 1 assist, had a better shot pace than any Pens forward but Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, and Hornqvist, and had very good possession stats.

Once again - all three points were scored in one game; and for the scorer - shot-pace index should result in points, period.

Sprong showed major strides in all those aspects of the game this preseason and largely got sharted on for it.

Really? I probably watched different Sprong's games...

Sprong is also a goal scorer and most of them are notoriously streaky. So common sense tells us he is going to be a roller coaster as his NHL career gets off to a start.

Exactly, but some people still don't get it, why he's on the 4th line...

Sprong scored no goals besides the Islanders game in his stint last season. 7 games of no production. Doesn’t make much sense to reference “pace” there. Since he was not scoring and playing low sheltered minutes it was smart to send him back down. A positive from that stretch is Crosby/Simon (his linemates) didn’t do much ES scoring either and their possession stats were strong.

Also doesn’t make much sense to hold the 18 game sample against him, he should have been in juniors and the whole team sucked. Id throw that out the window.

Sprong needs to produce at the end of the day. He’ll get his chances. Sheahan and Cullen are two pretty good players to play him next to as well. They won’t be as demanding of him as Crosby is and are strong away from the puck. He’ll be in the mix on the second powerplay. Also, I wouldn’t get too hung up on forward line combos for opening night/early season anyway, they change like the weather.

Penguins would have traded him if they weren’t in love with his potiential. They want him to be a stud just as much as we do. I am optimistic he does well but also recognize that it’s time for him to be a player.

Bingo! I sign after each word in this post.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Really? I probably watched different Sprong's games...

You don't have to take my word for it. That was the general consensus of this board and some staff, as well. It was his offensive game that wasn't coming alive. Aside from a small handful of dumb plays near his own blue line and in the NZ, he was much more responsible on the other side of the puck.

 

[Fordy]

the coaches don’t like sprong and it’s obvious. a team better catered to him could likely mold his talents into an extremely capable player. i hope he can pull it off on this team. if he doesn’t, or if he never makes the nhl, it certainly won’t be because he was given every opportunity and failed. that much is obvious. will we squander another prospect and chalk it up to he wasn’t the most prolific playoff scorer in decades so he didn’t deserve it? probably. luckily we are loaded with forwards

if you say the words “he needs to produce at the end of the day” he needs to be put in the position to do that

 

[Fordy]

You don't have to take my word for it. That was the general consensus of this board and some staff, as well. It was his offensive game that wasn't coming alive. Aside from a small handful of dumb plays near his own blue line and in the NZ, he was much more responsible on the other side of the puck.

his attention in the d zone has been very strong. lots of good plays this preseason

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The problem I have is that Riikola is on a one year contract. If Rutherford is trying to sign him longer term, then yes play him as much as possible. However if Riikola walks after this season

Luckily Riikola is a RFA so he can’t walk. Even if he plays great he’ll only have 1 NA season (and likely not a full 82 game sample) as well so there won’t be a ton of leverage for him. Pens are in a good spot to keep him if they want to.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

his attention in the d zone has been very strong. lots of good plays this preseason

No argument from me. That wasn't at all my complaint re: his preseason work.

I recognize he has a more uphill battle than some others on this team (as I agree that the staff seems to dislike him) and was hoping for him remove any argument about him being bumped up the lineup. Unfortunately that just didn't happen. So his season is already off on the wrong foot, especially if his injury is any worse than minor. Is what it is, as they say. As you mentioned... at least they are insanely deep at forward.

 

[odiumutis]

I don't think the staff dislikes him. But it is obvious - MS has requirements for the players and Sprong so far hasn't fulfilled them, and I'm not talking about offensive numbers here. I wish the kid luck and would love him to become a consistent top-6 winger, but so far he looks like a second version of Pouliot.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah... no he doesn't.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

a team better catered to him could likely mold his talents into an extremely capable player.

Pens/Sullivan are not going to sacrifice what they believe to be the best possible lineup to develop a singular player, nor should they. This is not a rebuilder or a young, developing roster— they are all in to win this year. Everything else is secondary, as it should be. You don’t waste any time messing around with prospects when you have two legends of this era at ages 31 and 32. You hope they can contribute when they get the call or you trade them for somebody who can.

And honestly I think the Penguins have been extremely patient with all of the top guys in their farm over the years, despite the need for ELC contributors. They don’t rush players.

 

[Fordy]

Pens/Sullivan are not going to sacrifice what they believe to be the best possible lineup to develop a singular player, nor should they. This is not a rebuilder or a young, developing roster— they are all in to win this year. Everything else is secondary, as it should be. You don’t waste any time messing around with prospects when you have two legends of this era at ages 31 and 32. You hope they can contribute when they get the call or you trade them for somebody who can.

And honestly I think the Penguins have been extremely patient with all of the top guys in their farm over the years, despite the need for ELC contributors. They don’t rush players.

there is a non zero chance that sprong could over the course of several months become an extremely valuable player to any team in this league. it’s a failure of the league as a whole that they don’t do more for players in this position. it’s not unique to sully. it’s just how it is. luckily we are deep enough that it hopefully won’t matter. that’s my only point

 

[Fordy]

I don't think the staff dislikes him. But it is obvious - MS has requirements for the players and Sprong so far hasn't fulfilled them, and I'm not talking about offensive numbers here. I wish the kid luck and would love him to become a consistent top-6 winger, but so far he looks like a second version of Pouliot.

i disagree so strongly with everything you’ve said about sprong that it’s the only reason i even posted to begin with

 

[Andy99]

the coaches don’t like sprong and it’s obvious. a team better catered to him could likely mold his talents into an extremely capable player. i hope he can pull it off on this team. if he doesn’t, or if he never makes the nhl, it certainly won’t be because he was given every opportunity and failed. that much is obvious. will we squander another prospect and chalk it up to he wasn’t the most prolific playoff scorer in decades so he didn’t deserve it? probably. luckily we are loaded with forwards

if you say the words “he needs to produce at the end of the day” he needs to be put in the position to do that

My fear as well...we’ve seen too many development blunders by this organization...