Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread - It's Here!

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I don't think the inn is really full, to be honest.

Jake - Sid - X
Hags - Geno - Y
Rust - Brassard - Z

You have Hornqvist, Kessel and Sprong at RW. X is either Hornqvist or Sprong, don't think Phil works there at all. Y is either Kessel or Sprong, though I really don't think Geno-Kessel is getting the absolute most out of those two guys. Z is any of the three, and all three would excel in that spot.

There's room for Sprong, and it's not "force the kid into a spot" room either. Rust is fine at LW, certainly better at RW but he's the only guy with the versatility to swap and still be effective.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I don't think the inn is really full, to be honest.

Jake - Sid - X
Hags - Geno - Y
Rust - Brassard - Z

You have Hornqvist, Kessel and Sprong at RW. X is either Hornqvist or Sprong, don't think Phil works there at all. Y is either Kessel or Sprong, though I really don't think Geno-Kessel is getting the absolute most out of those two guys. Z is any of the three, and all three would excel in that spot.

There's room for Sprong, and it's not "force the kid into a spot" room either. Rust is fine at LW, certainly better at RW but he's the only guy with the versatility to swap and still be effective.

1. They clearly don't like Rust at LW. I agree that he can do it, but Sully clearly doesn't.
2. Now you're just robbing Peter (Simon) to pay Paul (Sprong). And you're playing Rust out of position to do it. And then who is 4RW?

 

[Tom Hanks]

I don't think the inn is really full, to be honest.

Jake - Sid - X
Hags - Geno - Y
Rust - Brassard - Z

You have Hornqvist, Kessel and Sprong at RW. X is either Hornqvist or Sprong, don't think Phil works there at all. Y is either Kessel or Sprong, though I really don't think Geno-Kessel is getting the absolute most out of those two guys. Z is any of the three, and all three would excel in that spot.

There's room for Sprong, and it's not "force the kid into a spot" room either. Rust is fine at LW, certainly better at RW but he's the only guy with the versatility to swap and still be effective.

I agree if they play Rust on the LW there are better options for Sprong. It doesn’t look like that will be a regular thing. I think Rust is a better RW too.

JR could make trades or they can just play it out and see how it goes. He likes to make deals well before the deadline (Dec/Jan) but we aren’t in a rush for anything right now. Start the season as is and see how it plays out.

 

[PensandCaps]

Nothing would be better than Letang shutting everyone up and lead Dmen in scoring and take home the Norris.

I'd take Letang coming back to Elite play and winning Norris over Sid or Geno winning MVP or Art Ross.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

You say worst position to start with like Sheahan and Cullen are awful players. The press box would be worse but even the worst position on the ice is still good.

Cullen is great, but who knows when the wheels are gonna fall off. Sheahan is not a good offensive player, though he's not as bad as his stats showed when we traded for him. The press box is not a part of the discussion when talking about potential spots for Sprong. It kinda goes without saying that not playing is the worst, y'know? C'mon. Getting hit by a bus is worse than the press box, even!

Sprong with Malkin is that best for Malkin? Who plays on the 4th line?

Is it best for Geno to give him a guy very similar to James Neal's style and talent at shooting the puck? Yes. I'm sure that's perfectly fine with Geno as well as Sprong.

I don't know who plays RW on the 4th line in this lineup:

Jake - Sid - Hornqvist
Hags - Geno - Sprong
Rust - Brassard - Kessel
Cullen - Sheahan - ????

Simon? Maybe? I don't know, that's the one opening I've been discussing for months as the only real weakness. Even if you put Sprong there, that line's getting mainly defensive starts and playing a predominantly defensive role just because of the way our top three lines will be deployed.

I agree if they play Rust on the LW there are better options for Sprong. It doesn’t look like that will be a regular thing. I think Rust is a better RW too.

JR could make trades or they can just play it out and see how it goes. He likes to make deals well before the deadline (Dec/Jan) but we aren’t in a rush for anything right now. Start the season as is and see how it plays out.

Or, we could start the season with Sprong in the top-9 and see how that plays out, as opposed to putting him in the worst position to succeed and take advantage of his skill/talent, and lowering his value as an asset (should we explore the trade avenue down the line) in the process while he toils away getting 10 minutes a night playing on a defensive line.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Or, we could start the season with Sprong in the top-9 and see how that plays out, as opposed to putting him in the worst position to succeed and take advantage of his skill/talent, and lowering his value as an asset (should we explore the trade avenue down the line) in the process while he toils away getting 10 minutes a night playing on a defensive line.

you say this like it's only an issue for Sprong, but not for whoever else goes there. What makes Sprong more important than our other wings and prospects?

 

[Peat]

I don't think the inn is really full, to be honest.

Jake - Sid - X
Hags - Geno - Y
Rust - Brassard - Z

You have Hornqvist, Kessel and Sprong at RW. X is either Hornqvist or Sprong, don't think Phil works there at all. Y is either Kessel or Sprong, though I really don't think Geno-Kessel is getting the absolute most out of those two guys. Z is any of the three, and all three would excel in that spot.

There's room for Sprong, and it's not "force the kid into a spot" room either. Rust is fine at LW, certainly better at RW but he's the only guy with the versatility to swap and still be effective.

Simon-Brassard-Rust is the second biggest success story of camp after Riikola. I'm all for trying Rust-Brassard-RW (preferably Kessel), but its not a goer right now because that line won't be changed until it fails. Taking apart a line on hot form to play someone who hasn't shown greater form than anyone involved in the top 9 is what I'd call "forcing the kid into a spot".

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Simon-Brassard-Rust is the second biggest success story of camp after Riikola. I'm all for trying Rust-Brassard-RW (preferably Kessel), but its not a goer right now because that line won't be changed until it fails. Taking apart a line on hot form to play someone who hasn't shown greater form than anyone involved in the top 9 is what I'd call "forcing the kid into a spot".

I mean, to play Devil's Advocate; Tangradi tore it up with Geno in the preseason a handful of years ago. The pre-season doesn't really mean shit as far as lines/combos go. It's fantastic that Riikola's playing very well and exceeding expectations, and I hope like Hell that transitions to the regular season, but Rust is the only guy with the potential to play both sides and be effective (granted, he's better on the RW, though I think his absolute best came on Geno's LW), and a huge portion of that line's success is Brassard, being a fantastic player in his own right, finally getting comfortable with this team/style/system and getting more familiar with the guys on this roster. Simon, for as much as Sid seems to like him (as if Sid's ever gonna do anything but gush about a teammate) isn't much better of an option than ZAR to me. I don't get what anyone sees in either of them, to be frank. And to sorta tell Sprong to f*** off to the 4th line, getting ~10 minutes a game in defensive situations with Sheahan as his center just to get a spot for Simon seems... Odd.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think I've decided that Coach has me ignored

if not...Simon is a similar level prospect to Sprong, and he plays the position we need. Maybe not quite the upside, but just as likely to be an NHL player as Sprong imo. There's no reason to force a spot open for Sprong just to bump Simon.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I also don't like Sprong with Cullen-Sheahan because, not only is it the worst potential spot for a player of his development stage, skillset and talent, those two guys are very likely gone in a year regardless. It behooves us to play a kid who has the potential to be an effective, productive player for us for years to come, alongside players who will also be here for years to come (Sid, Geno, potentially Brassard depending on how this season shakes out).

 

[Peat]

I mean, to play Devil's Advocate; Tangradi tore it up with Geno in the preseason a handful of years ago. The pre-season doesn't really mean **** as far as lines/combos go. It's fantastic that Riikola's playing very well and exceeding expectations, and I hope like Hell that transitions to the regular season, but Rust is the only guy with the potential to play both sides and be effective (granted, he's better on the RW, though I think his absolute best came on Geno's LW), and a huge portion of that line's success is Brassard, being a fantastic player in his own right, finally getting comfortable with this team/style/system and getting more familiar with the guys on this roster. Simon, for as much as Sid seems to like him (as if Sid's ever gonna do anything but gush about a teammate) isn't much better of an option than ZAR to me. I don't get what anyone sees in either of them, to be frank.

I don't really disagree with you. I like a lot of things about Simon, but he rarely puts it all together for me and I suspect he's partly just lucky that he landed on that line and not another one.

But you've got to start somewhere. Pre-season form is better than nothing.

I'm pretty sure SBR won't last. Simon has yet to show he can do it away from Sid consistently and Rust is a bit injury prone, a bit streaky... and also probably the first person to get the call when Sid finally gets sick of playing with Hornqvist. Or Horny gets injured. Or Sully gets sick of watching the Phil and Geno show. The current set of lines aren't lasting. People must be sick of reading it, but nothing Sully picks for forward lines is set for that long. Which I'm glad about, as there's only 2 wingers in the top 9 in the slots I'd put them in.

Until it does get changed though, that's how it is. Its not like they're rancidly stupid or anything.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Nothing would be better than Letang shutting everyone up and lead Dmen in scoring and take home the Norris.

I'd take Letang coming back to Elite play and winning Norris over Sid or Geno winning MVP or Art Ross.

At this point, I want Jack Johnson to win the Norris because it's going to make a bunch of braindead yinzer look like idiots

New argument I saw today, Jack Johnson sucked in the preseason because if you take out the 1 game he was absolutely incredible, he was just okay.

 

[Ogrezilla]

At this point, I want Jack Johnson to win the Norris because it's going to make a bunch of braindead yinzer look like idiots

New argument I saw today, Jack Johnson sucked in the preseason because if you take out the 1 game he was absolutely incredible, he was just okay.

Between Letang, JJ, and Sprong, I think this place is going to be unreadable this season

 

[Empoleon8771]

Between Letang, JJ, and Sprong, I think this place is going to be unreadable this season

This place has been one of the more reasonable places. I'm talking specifically about reddit, which is like trying to talk to a 2 year old. Seriously, this is how one of the discussions went:

Me: Johnson has been really good in the preseason
Other guy: Lol no he hasn't, he has sucked
Me: He leads the Penguins in pretty much all advanced stat categories and the eye test supports him playing well, where's your evidence that he has been bad?
Other guy: Well if you take out his 1 incredible game against AHL competition, his stats aren't the best anymore, therefore he's sucked. Stop sucking Johnson's ****, he has been awful

That has been more or less the interactions there. Outside of a quick discussion with vamb8 here, the discussion about Johnson has mostly been people cautiously optimistic about him here.

 

[Peat]

Pensburgh has been insufferable when it comes to Johnson. Also next to impossible to talk about stuff a journalist has said when it doesn't fit what people want to hear.

So yeah. This place is going to at least win tallest midget for reasonable discussion

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pensburgh has been insufferable when it comes to Johnson. Also next to impossible to talk about stuff a journalist has said when it doesn't fit what people want to hear.

So yeah. This place is going to at least win tallest midget for reasonable discussion

Bingo, the Penguins subreddit is basically just an extension of Pensburgh, both are places that are completely incapable of formulating their own opinions and come to conclusions insanely prematurely. This website has a lot more bad takes, but also has a lot more guys capable of formulating their own thoughts.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This place has been one of the more reasonable places. I'm talking specifically about reddit, which is like trying to talk to a 2 year old. Seriously, this is how one of the discussions went:

Me: Johnson has been really good in the preseason
Other guy: Lol no he hasn't, he has sucked
Me: He leads the Penguins in pretty much all advanced stat categories and the eye test supports him playing well, where's your evidence that he has been bad?
Other guy: Well if you take out his 1 incredible game against AHL competition, his stats aren't the best anymore, therefore he's sucked. Stop sucking Johnson's ****, he has been awful

That has been more or less the interactions there. Outside of a quick discussion with vamb8 here, the discussion about Johnson has mostly been people cautiously optimistic about him here.

well reddit's hockey stuff has always been unreadable

 

[RSPens]

You seem to be assuming Riikola will be sent down sooner rather than later - maybe when Dumo is fit. If true then, hat you say makes sense.

HOWEVER -

If Riikola stays up - which he will if he's definitely one of the 6 best dmen - things change. We can't carry 8 dmen indefinitely because injuries will mean needing more than 13 forwards.

And if the choice is between risking Ruh to waivers and sending down one of our best 6 dmen, I'll take the risk. Trotman's no schlub and was good in pre-season. If he or one of the other AHL dmen don't work out, you could get another Ruhwedel fairly cheaply. Sucks to waste assets but better than not playing your best.

I believe Riikola is staying up.

I get it Riikola deserves to play in the top 6. He had a great pre-season. The problem is Oleksiak needs to be playing. Oleksiak is signed to a three year contract, its rumored that Gonchar really likes him. He's similar size to Chara and he put up similar numbers to what Chara did at his age. I am not saying that he is going to be anywhere near as good as Chara. However he does need playing time to reach his potential. So if Ruh's not the guy sitting in the box and Riikola is playing, then who do you sit?

Now about the other hot topic, Sprong. Coach is missing one thing. For the most part Sully is not going to line match and only put the 4th line out in the defensive zone. He is going to roll his lines and by having strong defensive players playing with Sprong, it allows him to focus on his offence. He will make mistakes and will get caught, but it is a lot more detrimental to the team if Crosby, Malkin or even Brassard are covering for his mistakes then it is to have Cullen and Sheahan. I do think that playing with Geno would be the best for Sprong if he meets his potential, but he's not there yet. Geno plays well with shooters as we all know (Neal), but Kessel is a shooter too (of course there's more to him then that as well). However this is all pointless to dwell on since the lines will change about 20 times in the first week of the regular season anyways.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I get it Riikola deserves to play in the top 6. He had a great pre-season. The problem is Oleksiak needs to be playing.

The Penguins scratched a guy who was a part of 2 cup wins for them, one of which while playing top-4 minutes, in Ian Cole for Oleksiak last year. I disagree with this entirely, they've scratched better players and players with bigger contracts than him in the past.

I think people are grossly overestimating how secure of a spot Oleksiak has on this team. He has only been a regular for 50 regular season games, played less than Ruhwedel did in the playoffs last year and had a pretty underwhelming preseason. I don't doubt for a second that they'd scratch Oleksiak for Riikola if they think Riikola would help this team more.

 

[Peat]

I get it Riikola deserves to play in the top 6. He had a great pre-season. The problem is Oleksiak needs to be playing. Oleksiak is signed to a three year contract, its rumored that Gonchar really likes him. He's similar size to Chara and he put up similar numbers to what Chara did at his age. I am not saying that he is going to be anywhere near as good as Chara. However he does need playing time to reach his potential. So if Ruh's not the guy sitting in the box and Riikola is playing, then who do you sit?

I personally disagree that Oleksiak must play and would sit him without hesitation if Riikola shows he's clearly more deserving.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I think I've decided that Coach has me ignored

if not...Simon is a similar level prospect to Sprong, and he plays the position we need. Maybe not quite the upside, but just as likely to be an NHL player as Sprong imo. There's no reason to force a spot open for Sprong just to bump Simon.

Reasonable well thought out arguments must not be allowed to stand.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Back at it as we enter the regular season. This thread's purpose is to run to when the GDT is up for each game. Also once the PGT is dying down, we will re-open this thread for discussion. We will discuss lines, practice, etc. This is basically the catch-all in between games.

So let's go!

Listen listen never turtle
You do that they'll call you Myrtle
Let's Go!
Let's Go!

 

[LOGiK]

The best thing about the Penguins is that they are not the Steelers. This make me happy.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Between Letang, JJ, and Sprong, I think this place is going to be unreadable this season

I find it will only be unreadable if one doesn't want to read dissenting or negative opinions. HF Pens, for the most part, does a good job of explaining their viewpoints to make it interesting to read, even in situations I don't agree with the poster.

 

[Peat]

Listen listen never turtle
You do that they'll call you Myrtle
Let's Go!
Let's Go!

What in the name of Thor's beer strainer have I just seen here?