Pre-Game Talk: The All Purpose Off Day Thread | DeSmith Re-assigned, Jarry Recalled

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Richard

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Feb 8, 2012
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Murray holds his glove wrong. It's a fundamental flaw. He will never be able to stop a shot between his glove and his body with his positioning. He holds his glove like a claw. I always prefer a goalie who catches traditional and is able to use his elbow to stop shots. Lundqvist was far better than murray and he used the damn claw technique and still can't stop a puck near his body worth a damn.
 

BrookswasHere44

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Jun 22, 2009
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Huge Murray fan but this team cannot consider trading Jarry anytime in the near future.

I'm nowhere near jumping off the ledge but the goaltending situation is not crystal clear anymore to me. It also won't be until the D is fixed first
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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Feb 28, 2017
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Murray hasn't been good enough this year, but people zeroing in on him when this team can't score goals either have an agenda to push or they're horribly misguided with the real issues on this team. Every line but Malkin's line sucks at scoring at ES, and Malkin's line is also below where it should be at in terms of ES scoring. It doesn't matter if they lose 6-1 or 3-1, they all count for the same.

I should have added to my post to be more clear.

- Do I think MM is the sole reason we are terrible? No
- Do I think MM could play better (along with about 95% of the roster)? Yes

There is significant interdependence on team play and goaltending play. But no one can look at MM this year and say "yeah he looks like he's carrying the same confidence vs the playoffs"

Because BOTH MM and MAF bailed this team out oodles of times during the last run. Maybe our own goaltending SV%'s are normalizing, just like our shooting percentages?
 
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StutzlesTapeJob

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Dec 22, 2008
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Regarding our depth. Obviously not great. But I also think Sully needs to stop giving underperforming top lines so much time if they aren't getting it done. It's the best way to "sit" Crosby in effect.

As much as our 4th line isn't a 3b, recently I would say they have more positive shifts than negative. Yet as soon as we are down one goal they get like 2 shifts a period.

If the other lines are firing on all cylinders, sure go with your best chance to win. Right now they are not playing well and I would like to see Sully be slower to shorten the bench. And maybe use it to light a butt or two on fire.

Sid is either tired or needs a competitive kick in the pants. Rolling four lines covers both.
 

cheesedanish87

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Jun 27, 2012
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Murray is one of the many problems with the pens this year, if i was making a list of players to blame he would be number 3 on my list right after Sid and Letang.

In October you can make a good case the team in front of him didn't give him much of a chance, but the pens have been better in defending since then.

Yeah, the pens still have their fair share of breakdowns, every NHL team does, but it now seems like every pens mistake ends up in the back of their net, the goalie is suppose to make some of those saves.

I was pretty surprised Sully went to Murray against Detroit after the Carolina game, it will be interesting to see who starts tonight.
 

molon labe

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Jul 13, 2016
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Murray's play would have been fine so far this year if the team wouldn't suck in front of him. Sure, he's not at what he was last year, but what he was last year is unrealistic to expect when this team is playing like this. If the team was even playing just fine defensively on the year, Murray would probably be at like a .915 save% at worst right now.

Murray's #'s last year were nearly identical to Carey Price.. To say that was sustainable was certainly hoped for but not expected. My dissappointment with him this year is that he hasn't stolen any games (was hoping for 5 or so game throughout the year - with all the back to backs - where Murray could step in and steal some when the Pens played like crap)... But the way the team has played in front of him has just been pathetic. So many of our losses have been 1 goal games, so it's tough to pin those on MM. When you're not scoring any goals ES, the problem isn't the netminder.

MAF started last year very poorly if you remember. The team would get 3-4 goals and still lose. It wasn't until later in the year when things got settled down did he recoup his numbers and look comfortable. As a contrast to the earlier comparison - look at how many fans were dogging Price early this year. Granted he makes a fortune, but even the best goalie can only do so much when their team blows chunks. Difference is that he's obviously stolen games for them (pretty much every win they've had lol)
 

Old Gregg

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Apr 13, 2010
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I'm throwing it out there but if it were MAF in net instead of MM with the same numbers, people would be tearing MAF apart and running him out of town. MM has been brutal this year and does not look like the calm goalie we've seen the last couple years. I don't care about how bad the team is in front of him or scoring chances etc. because when the same things were brought up for MAF a lot of the people currently defending MM were not allowing those excuses for MAF.
 

vikingGoalie

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Oct 31, 2010
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I'd be surprised if either of you could name a single game this season where the Pens clearly outplayed their opponent and lost via bad Murray goaltending?

that is not on point though to whether Murray is playing well below expectations thus far this season. The team and the goalie are wrapped up together. The goalie lets in one he shouldn't and the team gets a bit more spastic, and vice versa. It was the main reason most of us wanted Murray over Fleury because he was steady in net and letting the puck come to him. Murray's glove hand stinks. That first goal was a little more difficult then it looked because of it grazing a skate, but at that distance with that sight line I would like my goalie to make that save more times then not. With murray that shot goes in more times then not right now. The second goal larkin just walked him, sure that was a breakaway, AND a great chance. but murray made it really easy he planted had no backward momentum and didn't move with the puck at all. The 3rd goal was similar he went down early and made it easy. 4th goal he gave up a bad rebound off his chest, sure wrapped up in that goal is the fact that his defense didn't pick anyone up and the rebound was scooped up and the player was allowed to stride over and put it in. But look at a similar chance on Howard by Hornqvist earlier, rebound goes off Howard before the puck is even on the ice again Howard is adjusting his position to be square to the puck, and his eyes are locked on it. That 4th goal, murray couldn't even find the puck until late. Is that all his fault NO. But I am saying that this is not a case of Murray controlling rebounds, not leaking goals, being focused and just not able to get some of these because they are really bad chances against. Murray would typically stop at least 2 of those that went in against Detroit, at least. If it's a 1 goal game in the third we've seen this team come back. But the whole team is garabage right now, and when they are down 4-1 in the 3rd they are done like dinner. (except when we troll the jackets)

By no means was the detroit game all his fault. But Murray can control what happens in that blue paint (and nothing else). Howard clearly outplayed Murray in this game by a wide margin. A good example, the 4th goal against. Murray gives up that rebound right off his chest, and by the time he tracks where the puck went he's dead to rights. Of course the team not picking up anyone in front of him is a huge part. But then look at the shot Hornqvist had from a similar spot. He hits Howard, before the puck even hits the ice after hitting Howard he is already readjusting his position, his eyes are locked on the puck. I'm not seeing that from Murray consistently. Even the coach after this game said that it wasn't Murray's best game. And sully is one of Murray's biggest advocates. Heck early on look how hagelin (i know it's hagelin) got that great chance and howard stoned him, if you look closely you'll see the pass came out and Howard readjusted and was in perfect position on Hagelin. I would like to see that from Murray a bit more often. Not those goals where he reacts early is immobile and makes it to easy.


Still goal tending is maybe 1/3 of our problem. But *I* find it a little troubling (only a little right now) that Murray's biggest strength, his ability to be calm and let the play come to him and control what he can, is not a strength right now. He's gotta get out of his head, he's below 90% save percentage his last 18 starts, he doesn't get a pass in my book. Only way we make the playoffs is if Crosby and Letang play a helluva lot better, but Murray has to get his act together too.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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I'm throwing it out there but if it were MAF in net instead of MM with the same numbers, people would be tearing MAF apart and running him out of town. MM has been brutal this year and does not look like the calm goalie we've seen the last couple years. I don't care about how bad the team is in front of him or scoring chances etc. because when the same things were brought up for MAF a lot of the people currently defending MM were not allowing those excuses for MAF.

Because it was horse**** when people brought it up for Fleury. Kinda weird that you're ignoring that. People made up a fake idea of the team playing bad in front of Fleury to try and excuse his awful play last year. The Penguins are legitimately playing bad this year.
 

Will Hunting

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Dec 14, 2011
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Because it was horse**** when people brought it up for Fleury. Kinda weird that you're ignoring that. People made up a fake idea of the team playing bad in front of Fleury to try and excuse his awful play last year. The Penguins are legitimately playing bad this year.
The Penguins are playing bad and Murray IS PLAYING BAD. Completely agreed with "Old Gregg". If it was MAF playing like MM this year, people here would be calling for gilotine.
 

Empoleon8771

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Aug 25, 2015
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The Penguins are playing bad and Murray IS PLAYING BAD. Completely agreed with "Old Gregg". If it was MAF playing like MM this year, people here would be calling for gilotine.

Fleury was worse last year than Murray has been this year. Hell, Murray this year probably is right about on par with what Fleury did for most of his career if the team was actually decent in front of him.
 
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DegenX

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Aug 14, 2011
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This is tiresome. People are calling Murray out. And Crosby. And Letang. And the coaching staff. We have plenty to discuss without bringing up players who no longer play for this team. You want to compare stats, compare stats but knock off the 'If it was MAF' stuff.
 

The Gobfather*

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May 2, 2014
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Because it was horse**** when people brought it up for Fleury. Kinda weird that you're ignoring that. People made up a fake idea of the team playing bad in front of Fleury to try and excuse his awful play last year. The Penguins are legitimately playing bad this year.
People just wanna blame Murray now when they wouldn’t blame fluery no matter how terrible he was
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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I'm throwing it out there but if it were MAF in net instead of MM with the same numbers, people would be tearing MAF apart and running him out of town. MM has been brutal this year and does not look like the calm goalie we've seen the last couple years. I don't care about how bad the team is in front of him or scoring chances etc. because when the same things were brought up for MAF a lot of the people currently defending MM were not allowing those excuses for MAF.

Does Murray have the same playoff history as MAF? People weren't running him out of town for the hell of it. He had been legitimately bad in the playoffs several times. Until Murray matches that, he's going to be given some slack due to prior success.

By the way, the "people" you are referring to are a small section of the fanbase. MAF is largely beloved by this fanbase and Murray is trashed on every social media site even today by a significant portion of fans.

Having said that, would it make you feel better if I exaggerated how bad Murray is and SAID IT IN ALL CAPS? MURRAY SUCKS!!!
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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Feb 28, 2017
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The Penguins are playing bad and Murray IS PLAYING BAD. Completely agreed with "Old Gregg". If it was MAF playing like MM this year, people here would be calling for gilotine.

Partially because we all saw the MAF movie before. He had 10+ years of knowing what he is as a goalie and all signs pointed to: well he's obviously regressed mentally.
MAF turned it around and I'm really happy for him...I can't think of anyone on a personal level that I respect more than him. He went above and beyond being a good soldier to the Pens and I'll be grateful to him

But on the ice he had some MAJOR struggles and people were rightfully fed up with this. MM had no such track record and was (rightfully) afforded some slack as we weren't sure who MM really was. Some people were calling him a potential Vezina candidate, others thought he was below average. Just wasn't enough of a sample size to make an informed decision.

Anyway, who really cares about what MAF could be doing for us right now. It's like the the Bones discussion, who gives a flip?
 
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Will Hunting

Immortal Adams
Dec 14, 2011
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And Sullivan can **** off too... Terrible lines. Terrible. Crosby in this form is not doing **** with Sheary and Horn. Hagelin has no business being on 2nd line. Sprong with Sheahan again... And Simon called up to warm the bench, 4th line stays the same again. Seriously, Sullivan is losing his mind, unfortunately.
 

WayneSid9987

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Nov 24, 2009
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I mean he was never gonna take Kuhn out. Have to wait for Rust back to do that...
I like Sheary-Sid-Horny a touch better than Jake-Sid-Horny atm...
 
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