Exactly and he's only a disappointment because we know what he's possibly capable of. But that doesn't make him useless. He's still an nhl caliber player, which is nothing to scoff at. While he's not generating offense, he's not a drain on the team either.I just take issue with folks on my team being outright hated, and folks coming up with fabricated nonsense predicated entirely on that hate. I'm not the one claiming Wennberg is anything more than what he's been on the ice - hesitant in the offensive zone, nearly unwilling to shoot, and a great disappointment overall as a result. But that disappointment doesn't justify crafting elaborate fantasies about him being Filatov 2.0, or being some kind of irrational favorite of Kekalainen above all else, or other such nonsense.
The all-purpose: Alexander Wennberg thread
- Thread starter Theo Von
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Yes he is a drain on the team because he takes up a spot that could be filled by a better player who could contribute more effectively to the team.
Yes, Visqi, you do have to start flooding this site with examples. You know, real facts and evidence rather than just your argumentative fabrications. FIRST, THERE IS NO KNOWN EVIDENCE ANY WHERE THAT WENNBERG HAS MAKE A SPECIFIC AND SIGNIFICANT EFFORT TO IMPROVE HIS GAME. NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER. NO STORIES ABOUT HIM GETTING WITH A "FACE OFF COACH", TO HELP THAT ASPECT OF THIS GAME. NO STORIES ABOUT HIM WORKING WITH ANY SPECIAL CONDITIONING COACHES TO IMPROVE HIS STRENGTH. THE ONLY STORIES THE DISPATCH OR ANY PUBLICATION HAS WRITTEN ABOUT HIM INVOLVE HIM SITTING ON A BEACH WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND.
And yes, even compared to Dubie, Pooh was pooh last year. At least Dubie can win a face off. Unlike Pooh, Dubie i snot placed in positions where he can contribute offensively.
Visqi what I can't stand is when people such as you refuse to face reality. You have it straight from Tort's mouth: Pooh knows what he needs to do. He just does not do it. Period. THAT IS THE REALITY VISQI. HE KNOWS WHAT TO DO. HE HAS THE SKILLS THAT MAKE HIM CAPABLE OF DOING IT. HE DOES NOT USE THE OFF SEASON TO IMPROVE. HE JUST DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN. How you can continue to fabricate defenses for a man who takes $5 million a year from this team and returns about $45 worth of effort is beyond me.
And yes, even compared to Dubie, Pooh was pooh last year. At least Dubie can win a face off. Unlike Pooh, Dubie i snot placed in positions where he can contribute offensively.
Visqi what I can't stand is when people such as you refuse to face reality. You have it straight from Tort's mouth: Pooh knows what he needs to do. He just does not do it. Period. THAT IS THE REALITY VISQI. HE KNOWS WHAT TO DO. HE HAS THE SKILLS THAT MAKE HIM CAPABLE OF DOING IT. HE DOES NOT USE THE OFF SEASON TO IMPROVE. HE JUST DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN. How you can continue to fabricate defenses for a man who takes $5 million a year from this team and returns about $45 worth of effort is beyond me.
He is also the punk who told Torts to F*** Off during a game.
While we are at it, V find me the story where Pooh is quoted as discussing his game within the context of what the team needs from him. V find the story where he EVER speaks about the team rather than just about himself.
While we are at it, V find me the story where Pooh is quoted as discussing his game within the context of what the team needs from him. V find the story where he EVER speaks about the team rather than just about himself.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. "He just doesn't do it" is also an argumentative fabrication. The truth is we don't actually know. We have suspicions, but we do not know.
Boone Jenner and Nick Foligno got far more time at C with quality forwards than Wennberg last year. I'm not sure that's a "position where he can contribute offensively". He sure as hell couldn't do it from the bench during the playoffs.
You're assuming malice and/or carelessness. That's where I see a problem. I'm quite aware that he's not doing what he's supposed to on the ice. But I don't need to come up with elaborate stories about how he's some kind of Useless Prettyboy to handle my frustration with his repeated failures to improve. I don't feel any compulsion to attribute those failures to some kind of "meh, whatever, I don't care" attitude. The failures are what they are. The rest is window dressing. Frankly, if he really was that bad, he would be bought out by now.
Because I see a lot more effort out of him than you. It's just entirely on the defensive, conservative side of the game, and not what's expected from his contract and from his earlier performances.
I think the fundamental difference here is that we're both seeing poor play from him - but where you see a man playing lazy, I see a man playing scared. You see a guy who looks confident and conclude that he considers himself above it all; I see a guy who's acting confident to cover his insecurities that come out on the ice. It may end up being a distinction without a difference in the end if he can't turn it around, but one leaves us willing to say "sorry it didn't work out, move on" rather than frothing at the mouth over his audacity in continuing to exist.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Cyclones Rock
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- Jun 12, 2008
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Getting sent to the minor/claimed on waivers perhaps. But this guy is so laconic that might not do it.
It's a shame that this conversation is even being had. He should be a minor cap hit for the next 8 years at this point.
I would like to see someone who is in the pro Wennberg camp find an example of a player who turned around a trendline like Wennberg has had and became a worthwhile player again. Someone tried to once, but all of his examples didn't fit.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I don't think we have a pro-Wennberg camp. I think we have "Wennberg is a frustrating disappointment" versus "Wennberg delenda est."
Well, yeah, he couldn't do it during the playoffs because he proved he was bad and didn't earn the trust of the coaches.
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Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
I'm in the pro-Wennberg camp. I think this whole turn-it-around or not meme is off point. Two years ago he was hurt. Last year he didn't score his normally modest amount of goals. What was the biggest surprise to me was his low assist total. However, the other parts of his game were fine. That's why coach kept putting him out there, many times with our departed superstar. He's gifted with his hands, feet and vision. The points will come.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
...that was kind of my point.
* * *
I stand corrected. Guess there's more than two sides. Go figure.
Cyclones Rock
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- Jun 12, 2008
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I'll make you feel worse. The WennDub duo cap hit combined is $10.75 million. Allowing for a $7 million cap hit for Werenski, the not-so-dynamic duo will take 15% of the total cap amount of roughly $73 million.
15% of your salaries spent on the almost completely worthless is generally not a formula for success in the NHL.
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Xoggz22
Registered User
I would consider myself in the pro-Wennberg camp. I'm there because we've seen he has a game that can translate and contribute. However, I'm not blinded by hope for him to rebound to know he's drastically under performed the last 2 years and this is a pretty significant season for him. He was never known to be a shooter but his allergic response to handling the puck in the offensive zone, coupled with his lack of commitment to keeping teams honest by shooting is concerning. His penchant for moving the puck a step before the play actually develops is disappointing and frustrating. He needs to fix these or be gone. HOwever, I'm a pro-Wennberg guy because we have seen he has a hell of a knack for the game. He does have the ability to make plays that many others don't. He does play a 200 ft game. Anyone that indicates he has never shown anything in his brief career is misguided or blinded by hatred. My opinion, I get it. He's shown it before, he needs to show it again or it's time to move on.
Xoggz22
Registered User
I'm not going to disagree with you but I do want to ask what do you spend the money on? At this point there is no need to buy them out and pay them for another X number of years (depending on each player). Dubi may not be worth it but spreading a useless payment over 4 years when there is no need to is senseless. Wennberg can be bought out for 1/3 even after this season. I don't agree that making these moves this year would change anything. If the team has no problem with the cash flow and there are better players they'll sit in the box or be waived and sent down. Doubt that happens but it is an option to open a roster spot.
I mean, in the sense that he's on the team and I want the team to do well, I'm in the "pro-Wennberg" camp. Can miracles happen? Sure. Is it likely Wennberg ever regains his 50+ point form? No. That season was inflated being on the top line and PP (23 points, including 21 assists on the PP).
Again, we took a look back some of the worst even-strength goal scorers since 2013 and none have a good trajectory of bouncing back. You can't be a good center if you're literally never a threat to score. He's not putting up Henrik Sedin-like numbers either. So all in all, he's negative to the team just by being on the ice.
Hope he does turn it around (I'll be shocked if he posts, say, 8-32-40). It's just extremely unlikely. As Cyclones pointed out, this combined with Dubi was terrible contract management by Jarmo.
Again, we took a look back some of the worst even-strength goal scorers since 2013 and none have a good trajectory of bouncing back. You can't be a good center if you're literally never a threat to score. He's not putting up Henrik Sedin-like numbers either. So all in all, he's negative to the team just by being on the ice.
Hope he does turn it around (I'll be shocked if he posts, say, 8-32-40). It's just extremely unlikely. As Cyclones pointed out, this combined with Dubi was terrible contract management by Jarmo.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Technically, this is inaccurate, because he's been very capable in the defensive zone. He's just not what we need in a center paid at the rate he is (at that rate, we need at least some offensive zone capability too).
Now, Dubinsky, on the other hand... he needs to be "promoted" to the coaching staff.
Virtually all of his linemates put up better possession numbers when they're on the ice without Wennberg than they are with him. That's a net negative both offensively and defensively considering how possession numbers are tracked.
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I don't know where to begin with this. You are calling for evidence to disprove your bizarre and unfounded theory, and then calling everything fabrication. It's as if I called you a space alien and then said your birth certificate was fake. There are a lot of people who don't like Wennberg, mostly because he's been painful to watch on the ice. But your theory about his off ice behavior seems to be unique. If it had any truth to it we would expect it to be quite the news story. A player that doesn't work his ass off in the offseason tends to be a big deal these days. See Patrik Laine. And Torts would have kicked him off the team a long time ago if it was like that.
But if you want some hard evidence, then look at Wennberg's progression on faceoffs over the last couple years. He was winning half by the end of last year. People haven't caught on to it yet but he has improved massively there. It's unfortunately outweighed by his deterioration in more important parts of the game.
Why hasn't there been more reporting about Wennberg's training regimen? Why would there be? He's not that interesting of a player. I can think of plenty of players that have never had their training profiled in the media. Maybe Porty doesn't think it would be interesting. And Wennberg is perfectly justified to not bring the media into the gym with him. I do recall some pictures came out a year ago of him training with Gabe Carlsson. It was just some type of off balance lunges, which is the single most common thing you'll find a hockey player doing in a gym. You insinuated that it was pole dancing. If you can't see that as unfair there is no hope for you.
You misinterpret a couple things. First of all: Torts' comments. Torts was referring to Wennberg's on ice approach, his passivity. He doesn't have the confidence to play properly and Torts is trying to get that back to him. The confidence thing is the other thing you misinterpret. I can't think of any player I've watched who so obviously had a lack of confidence in his game. Real arrogance would be a step up for this kid, instead we get insecure arrogance, which is not so helpful.
I have to wonder if someone who looks like Wennberg did something bad to you or something. Because what you write about him bears little resemblance to the actual player.
The erosion in his possession game is a relatively new thing though. We have legit longstanding gripes for Wennberg's game. But it was really just last year that the wheels fell off statistically. It more or less matches what we see in his new unwillingness to carry the puck.
That would be an important point if anyone suggested Wennberg wasn't in over his head trying to be a #1C.
In 2017-18 Wennberg pulled a 54% CF, behind only the top liners. He was clearly ahead of his most common linemates that year. Beyond the shot attempt plus minus (what corsi for percentage is), Wennberg also pulled off a very impressive +22, right behind Panarin's team leading +23.
And side note - Wennberg's CF% last year was still 51% on the whole, not bad. But it was behind his linemates, and it shows that Wennberg depended on his linemates much more, especially Bjorkstrand. Though I said earlier that "the wheels fell off statistically" for Wennberg, it wasn't bad like I remembered. He was just okay in terms of possession stats and pretty much even in plus minus.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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This kid is such a controversial figure on this board for absolutely no reason. Very few people actually believe in the kid, and most of the fighting here is based around how much he sucks. It makes no sense, and is very weird because it would be in the best interest of the club if this player did not fail, yet I think some people are rooting for this exact scenario so they can say "I told you guys, you might have said he sucked, but I said he sucked first!" Congrats?
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