The all-purpose: Alexander Wennberg thread

[Old Guy]

I worry about what our community might ever do with its self if/when Alex Wennberg leaves Columbus.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Landeskog had a 20 pt dip with 30 pt recovery a couple seasons ago but that isn't extreme enough for you
Krejci looks like a roller coaster of 20 pt swings
Haula broke out at 26
Marchessault
Perron has had numerous double digit swings as well
Karlsson

I was looking where people had like 30% changes to be significant. I'm sure there are more but Vegas is an awfully easy look up.

I know this won't change your opinion and that you'll find some excuse you invalid this. Simple fact is players can rebound while many don't.

If it hurts you so much then why don't you write or call a ticket rep. Or organize a protest. Or get some wood so you can build a cross. Either way I don't see a reason for your vitriol. None of us are thrilled with his play or expect much from him this year but damn.

You obviously can't see the difference between the dips of certain players and the utter collapse of Wennberg.......................Your examples are, well, really not good.

Most players who score like Perron and Krejci experience dip "double digits' up to several times in their careers but never fall off the map. Players who score in the above 40 points range will have "double digit" swings in their scoring. Normal variance for those type of players.

Break out players aren't even relevant examples. Haula, Karlsson, JMM all were those. You evidently don't comprehend the magnitude and career implications of a collapse like Wennberg's. You can't even find an example to fit a"just going through normal stuff" narrative about Al.

I was responding to a particular post. Show me where I was incorrect in the post you quoted. If I bother you so much, then put me on ignore or skip my posts. I post on a CBJ board. I'll post what I want within the board's guidelines.

 

[blahblah]

I worry about what our community might ever do with its self if/when Alex Wennberg leaves Columbus.

Do a little jig? Enjoy the additional cap space? Mourn? We are capable of a such a wide array of overreacting, they sky is the limit.

Still going with, I hope he can Nyquist build some chemistry and he helps Wennberg figure out how to play at this level.

 

[Viqsi]

I worry about what our community might ever do with its self if/when Alex Wennberg leaves Columbus.

The same thing we've done after the departures of guys like Christian Backman, Fredrik Norrena, Rusty Klesla, Derick Brassard, Mike Commodore, Samuel Pahlsson, Anton Stralman, Scott Howson, Ken Hitchcock, and RJ Umberger.

There will always be a whipping boy. Always.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Dubinsky averaged .69 ppg in his 2 goal season and "rebounded" to .66 ppg the next season. Try again.

Dubinsky went from 54 points in 77 games to 34 points in 77 games, which is 0.70 PPG to 0.44. Regardless of what you think of his 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons which followed his 34-point campaign, he still dropped 40% of his production in a single season entering his prime years.

Bobrovski was in his second season which is often a "sophomore slump" when he had his "off" season. His statistical fall off wasn't even slightly to comparable to Wennberg's over the past year and one half.

Going from a .915 save percentage to .899, marginally ahead of Steve Mason's .894 in that miserable 2011-12 season, was not even slightly comparable?

Giordano had played a grand total of 55 NHL games when he went to Russia for a year. He had 19 points in his return season. He became a Norris Trophy winner 10 years later. Terrible example.

I'll concede the point on Giordano on one condition: I want a list of Canadian or American players who went from the NHL to the KHL for one full season or longer, and were anything more than a PTO or a marginal player upon their return to the NHL - if they returned at all.

Maybe Nigel Dawes will come back and prove your point. Or Andy Miele. Or Quinton Howden. Brandon Bochenski is a pretty good bet, right? But I'll await the list, which is probably a good mile long.

 

[Viqsi]

I'll concede the point on Giordano on one condition: I want a list of Canadian or American players who went from the NHL to the KHL for one full season or longer, and were anything more than a PTO or a marginal player upon their return to the NHL - if they returned at all.

Maybe Nigel Dawes will come back and prove your point. Or Andy Miele. Or Quinton Howden. Brandon Bochenski is a pretty good bet, right? But I'll await the list, which is probably a good mile long.

Strictly KHL? Because Tim Thomas is the classic example of that sort of thing, but he was SHL, from the years when the KHL was still the Russian SuperLeague. It's admittedly really overwhelmingly rare tho.

 

[cslebn]

Does anyone have the time to track success against NHLers in the Olympics or world cup vs the NHL?

Mostly how many guys excel in one and not the other.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Strictly KHL? Because Tim Thomas is the classic example of that sort of thing, but he was SHL, from the years when the KHL was still the Russian SuperLeague. It's admittedly really overwhelmingly rare tho.

Thomas went from college hockey to bouncing between the minors and Europe. Brian Rafalski, who's in a similar boat, went from college to Europe without a stop in the pros in between. And we're going back 17 years to get to Thomas' NHL debut, and 20 for Rafalski.

We can expand the search into other European leagues, but the conclusion is still the same: there is simply no way that an NHL player (even a marginal one) going to play in Europe represents anything other than a step backward in his career and his likelihood to become anything more than a depth player in the NHL. A drop in NHL production is one thing, but playing a year (or more) overseas might as well be the death knell of someone's career with only an incredibly tiny number of exceptions.

 

[Viqsi]

Thomas went from college hockey to bouncing between the minors and Europe. Brian Rafalski, who's in a similar boat, went from college to Europe without a stop in the pros in between. And we're going back 17 years to get to Thomas' NHL debut, and 20 for Rafalski.

Rafalski. That's it. I was pretty sure there was another example around the same time, but my brain kept wanting to insist it was Brendan Shanahan and I knew that wasn't accurate.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Does anyone have the time to track success against NHLers in the Olympics or world cup vs the NHL?

Mostly how many guys excel in one and not the other.

CBJ legend Jan Caloun was a phenom in the SM-Liiga, and was teammates in the 1998 Olympics with other CBJ legends Frantisek Kucera and Jaroslav Spacek. A bunch of other guys off that team were terrible in the NHL: Pavel Patera, Jiri Dopita, Martin Prochazka, and David Moravec.

 

[Viqsi]

CBJ legend Jan Caloun was a phenom in the SM-Liiga, and was teammates in the 1998 Olympics with other CBJ legends Frantisek Kucera and Jaroslav Spacek. A bunch of other guys off that team were terrible in the NHL: Pavel Patera, Jiri Dopita, Martin Prochazka, and David Moravec.

Hey, let's be fair - Spacek was actually pretty good while he was here. At least, that one year he was.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Rafalski. That's it. I was pretty sure there was another example around the same time, but my brain kept wanting to insist it was Brendan Shanahan and I knew that wasn't accurate.

It's amazing how far back one has to go to find these exceptions to the rule.

Unless Justin Azevedo, Matt Ellison, Brandon Kozun, and Kevin Dallman all come back to the NHL to really teach me a lesson.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Hey, let's be fair - Spacek was actually pretty good while he was here. At least, that one year he was.

He was. I remember he had a two-point game during his first partial season here, and my mother said that "he had more assists than eyebrows".

I also think that I've had more posts in the last 24 hours on this topic than in the previous 365 days combined.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Dubinsky went from 54 points in 77 games to 34 points in 77 games, which is 0.70 PPG to 0.44. Regardless of what you think of his 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons which followed his 34-point campaign, he still dropped 40% of his production in a single season entering his prime years.



Going from a .915 save percentage to .899, marginally ahead of Steve Mason's .894 in that miserable 2011-12 season, was not even slightly comparable?



I'll concede the point on Giordano on one condition: I want a list of Canadian or American players who went from the NHL to the KHL for one full season or longer, and were anything more than a PTO or a marginal player upon their return to the NHL - if they returned at all.

Maybe Nigel Dawes will come back and prove your point. Or Andy Miele. Or Quinton Howden. Brandon Bochenski is a pretty good bet, right? But I'll await the list, which is probably a good mile long.

Dubinsky's 54 points season was his career best. He had averaged 42 points in his previous 3 seasons to his career high. His fall to 34 points isn't anything comparable to Wennberg. It's a 25% fall from his norms over the previous 4 seasons.

Bob's season was a sophomore year slump. I'll hold with that. History seems to have borne that description out. He had played in 54 NHL games prior to that season.

Giordano was at the beginning of a career-I believe it was 55 NHL GP prior to going to Russia. It doesn't hold as a valid Wennberg comparison. Wennnberg has played 358 reg. season NHL games.

Wennberg's 59 points season in 2016-17 looks very much like a peak. It's 2 years in the rear view mirror and happened at age 22.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Well, we post about him a lot. Now let's put a number on his likely performance for 2019-20.

 

[majormajor]

Well, we post about him a lot.

"We" do, yes. I think I'd have forgotten about him if it were not for you.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

"We" do, yes. I think I'd have forgotten about him if it were not for you.

Well I'm glad to have helped your failing memory. No thanks needed.

 

[CBJx614]

Depends on who he's on a line with and how Torts uses him. I'm saying between 35-45pts

 

[Viqsi]

I'm not voting, as Wennberg's at the point where I have hope, not expectations. Expectations mean that you're relying on a guy, and I prefer to avoid situations where I'm disappointed in someone I'm relying on.

 

[cslebn]

I'm dropping $100 in Vegas on him to break 10g when I go next.

That should be fun.

 

[Jovavic]

Troll vote, 100+ point season ahead

 

[blahblah]

I can't believe anyone who watched the Jackets this past year can seriously expect Wennberg to improve. Even Wennberg himself would laugh at you. Wennberg at least knows his goal is to avoid injury while getting paid close to $ 5million dollars. Winning has nothing to do with it. For Pooh it is about survival while making money. Period.

Yeah, this is hyperbole.... Nothing but the best around here.

I have zero expectations for Wennberg, however I also know he's better than what he showed last season. On a side note, this feels a little like Zherdev revisited (I think I've got the right player here).

 

[CBJx614]

Yeah, this is hyperbole.... Nothing but the best around here.

I have zero expectations for Wennberg, however I also know he's better than what he showed last season. On a side note, this feels a little like Zherdev revisited (I think I've got the right player here).

Zherdev is a much better comparison than "Swedish filatov"

Ya know a guy who couldn't even play a full season in the NHL.

Wennberg is at least NHL quality defensively and away from the puck. It's his lack of confidence and drive that frustrates everyone because we know what he's capable of.

 

[blahblah]

Zherdev is a much better comparison than "Swedish filatov"

Thanks, I wasn't sure if I was mixing up Filatov and Zherdev. I'm not sure I would call it a lack of drive, so much as a need to change his mindset. This is part of the reason that I think Nyquist might be a bit more impacting than just his stats, which are ok.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

You mentioned Wennberg. How far away is he from the player we saw in 2016-17? Is it a simple fix? Do you know why he’s struggled so badly the last couple of seasons?

The biggest thing is him understanding that he’s a good enough player, and the greatest thing about it is, it’s in his control. But there are two things: keep the puck and compete. Two things he can control, and I’ve seen him do it. I’ve seen him do it. For some reason …

Where did that go?

I have no idea. It’s a topic of discussion between him and me all the time.

Does he agree with your assessment?

Yes.

The (Tom) Wilson elbow-to-the-head hit in the 2018 playoffs, has that had a lingering effect?

He has to answer that question. We certainly, within the organization, have talked about that. Did that affect things? He’s a center. He’s a playmaker. If you’re a center, I want you to get the middle of the ice, no matter if there’s traffic there or not, keep the puck until you bring some people to you, and then you’re going to make your wingers better. You’re going to use them better with the open space. But you can’t do it if you don’t have the puck. Those are the two biggest things. To me, keeping the puck and bringing people to you in traffic is part of competing. It’s in his control, and, Portzy, he’s done it. He’s done it. I’m hoping he got some confidence at the Worlds. It’s a different game, but for any offensive player — and you and I have talked about this — it doesn’t matter if it’s a scrimmage game, the World Championship game, a pee-wee game … if you score goals and make plays, it helps your confidence. I’m just hoping he comes back with confidence.

How much have you spoken with Wennberg this summer?

I have not. I had a discussion with him at the end of the year. It wasn’t an exit interview — I don’t have those with anybody — but the last thing I told him is, “We’ve talked enough. You know what I expect because it’s the two things I’ve brought up the most. You know what I feel is (going on) with your game, but it’s a clear page when we start again next season.” I’m done talking about it. It’s in his control. He understands how important he can be to this organization. With the exodus of some offensive people … I know people say I don’t like him. Well, that just isn’t true. He’s a great kid. I love the kid. But I have to coach the team.

Is there a flaw in your relationship that he doesn’t respond to you, or doesn’t want to play for you?

I don’t know. You’d have to ask him that. We’ve had some very honest discussions, and I don’t think he disagrees with me. He’s going to get an opportunity. I’m putting him with (Gustav) Nyquist, a fellow Swede. That’s a great signing by (GM) Jarmo Kekalainen, an under the radar guy. From what I’ve seen of him and what I’ve heard of him, that’s a great signing. That’s where Jarmo is so good. He’s a 50-point guy. Maybe he and Wenny can work together, and (Nyquist), a veteran guy, can help ignite him and help him through some of this. There’s no question that my conversations with Wenny have gotten stale because it’s the same thing. I don’t think it does him any good anymore, listening to me. I just want him to understand, you’re not getting 40 games to get your game straightened out. I have a lot of decisions I have to make here. I’m looking to see what Texier can do in the middle. I know he wants the puck. I know he’s going to carry the puck.

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