The All Encompassing Tank/Rebuild/Tankers GDT Thread II

[silentbob37*]

Because he's one of the best wingers in the world...and he can be part of the solution once this team gets its **** together
he's 27, if the leafs still aren't competitive in 3-4 years then I might consider trading him
he's always going to have value, especially since his contract is under market value (see: Patrick Kane) - plus he's never injured and is an excellent skater

Bernier, Santorelli I agree with you on - I just left them in because people seem to like them I guess...

You're wrong, I can't say it more simply then that.

If the Leafs need to rebuild they will not be contenders during Kessel's prime, they won't. Simple as that. All holding onto Kessel does is hurt your draft position because the games he will win on his own when he is hot.

He is not ALWAYS going to have value.

The ONLY reason to leave Kessel in there is because you like him. If they rebuild, Kessel should be GONE ASAP.

 

[silentbob37*]

trading for other teams expensive options is a serious disease we need to get rid of asap...I am so sick and tired of taking someone else's available crap. ROR is a decent player but the guy is limited skating wise, skill wise and he's going to be asking for 6+ million dollars...Yeah he's the perfect fit here.........

If the blow the roste rup I don't hate the idea of bringing in O'Reilly.

 

[thewave]

You're wrong, I can't say it more simply then that.

If the Leafs need to rebuild they will not be contenders during Kessel's prime, they won't. Simple as that. All holding onto Kessel does is hurt your draft position because the games he will win on his own when he is hot.

He is not ALWAYS going to have value.

The ONLY reason to leave Kessel in there is because you like him. If they rebuild, Kessel should be GONE ASAP.

Pushing the Kessel for Semin 1st 2nd last years 1st 7th OA Haydn Fleury.

This years first is top 6 or so.

 

[Eb]

Wayne Gretzky was traded at age 27 and that means no one is untradable
Especially when your team needs to be gutted and rebuilt

Different era back then don't you think?

Being able to trade cash, less of a focus on drafting and developing your own players etc.

 

[Stats01]

If the blow the roste rup I don't hate the idea of bringing in O'Reilly.

I do, so we rebuild, but then go back to our old dumb ways of spending assets and a ton of money on someone who is a year away from free agency. Part of rebuilding is getting rid of the bad old habits, not continue them, cause then we just end up like we are now.. All of a sudden we sign ROR long term and now we have a player we try and rush to build around..Same crap, same story, same results.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Different era back then don't you think?

Being able to trade cash, less of a focus on drafting and developing your own players etc.

What he's saying is, no player is too good to be traded.

 

[Purity*]

You're wrong, I can't say it more simply then that.

If the Leafs need to rebuild they will not be contenders during Kessel's prime, they won't. Simple as that. All holding onto Kessel does is hurt your draft position because the games he will win on his own when he is hot.

He is not ALWAYS going to have value.

The ONLY reason to leave Kessel in there is because you like him. If they rebuild, Kessel should be GONE ASAP.

Maybe in the same sense how Chicago didn't trade off vets like Sharp, Seabrook and Keith before their rebuild?

Not everything is as linear as you like to think it is when it comes to a rebuild.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

I do, so we rebuild, but then go back to our old dumb ways of spending assets and a ton of money on someone who is a year away from free agency. Part of rebuilding is getting rid of the bad old habits, not continue them, cause then we just end up like we are now.. All of a sudden we sign ROR long term and now we have a player we try and rush to build around..Same crap, same story, same results.

I wouldn't mind a deal around Phanuef and ROR. He's still young and will be a good player when our proper rebuild is complete.

 

[Stats01]

Maybe in the same sense how Chicago didn't trade off vets like Sharp, Seabrook and Keith before their rebuild?

Not everything is as linear as you like to think it is when it comes to a rebuild.

They kept those players because they actually play a solid two way game..we have a bunch of one dimensional players who look like they've quit. Why ohhh why do people keep watching this crap and insist on keeping some of these players around. My goodness guys

 

[silentbob37*]

I do, so we rebuild, but then go back to our old dumb ways of spending assets and a ton of money on someone who is a year away from free agency. Part of rebuilding is getting rid of the bad old habits, not continue them, cause then we just end up like we are now.. All of a sudden we sign ROR long term and now we have a player we try and rush to build around..Same crap, same story, same results.

YOu still have to hit the cap floor and he is only 23. He can play center for guys like Nylander and Brown. He is a good two-way player and if thats how you want the team play and you want to create that kind of culture he isn't a bad guy to bring in to be your older guy for a while. His set also allows him slide down the roster as we draft and develop better players.

You don't rush to build around O'Reilly because he isn't a build aorund him type of player. You just let him be an older, mentor/leader while you suck for a while.

 

[Eb]

What he's saying is, no player is too good to be traded.

And what I am saying that it was a terrible example to prove that point.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Wayne Gretzky was traded at age 27 and that means no one is untradable
Especially when your team needs to be gutted and rebuilt

You don't think EDM traded Gretzky because they thought it was time to rebuild do you?

You're wrong, I can't say it more simply then that.

If the Leafs need to rebuild they will not be contenders during Kessel's prime, they won't. Simple as that. All holding onto Kessel does is hurt your draft position because the games he will win on his own when he is hot.

He is not ALWAYS going to have value.

The ONLY reason to leave Kessel in there is because you like him. If they rebuild, Kessel should be GONE ASAP.

No. Actually you're the one that's wrong. And I can't say it more simply than that either.

 

[Purity*]

They kept those players because they actually play a solid two way game..we have a bunch of one dimensional players who look like they've quit. Why ohhh why do people keep watching this crap and insist on keeping some of these players around. My goodness guys

Really??? You should have paid more attention to the Chicago rebuild. Believe it or not, Sharp, prior to getting traded to Chicago, was noted to have some deficiencies in the defensive zone and playing a "selfish game", he wasn't always a good 2-way winger. Duncan Keith was seen as a very mediocre defensemen until he started breaking out in 09. These things started changing under new leadership and overhauled coaching staff/systems.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Maybe in the same sense how Chicago didn't trade off vets like Sharp, Seabrook and Keith before their rebuild?

Not everything is as linear as you like to think it is when it comes to a rebuild.

Lol vets? Kieth was 24, Sharp 25, Seabrook 22. One year later they are playing in the western conference finals. Mind you these are there ages when the rebuild was complete. Phanuef and Kessel will each be 30+ minimum when our rebuild is complete. Bad example.

 

[Leaf Lander]

Different era back then don't you think?

Being able to trade cash, less of a focus on drafting and developing your own players etc.

Kessel isn't one of our players

We never drafted this kid he was Brian Burkes dream. American player

He is a great. Goal scorer but he is a flawed person with a undeveloped personality and he seems immature.

Trade him for a first a 2 nd and a Prospect. Plus a salary dump

 

[silentbob37*]

Maybe in the same sense how Chicago didn't trade off vets like Sharp, Seabrook and Keith before their rebuild?

Not everything is as linear as you like to think it is when it comes to a rebuild.

So you're looking back to about 03-04 (the year they drafted Barker 3rd overall)..... None of the guys youmentioned were on the team yet. Sharp was playing for the Flyers, Seabrook had been drafted the year before and wasn't int he NHL yet, Keith didn't joint the NHL until 05-06. Those guys aren't comparable to Kessel, they are more comparable to Rielly and Nylander.

They did trade away their to players from the early-mid 2000's like Arnson, Bell, Daze, Ruutu, Sullivan and Calder though. They didn't keep anyone because THEY might be good matched up with Barker or Skille or Toews.

 

[Leaf Lander]

You don't think EDM traded Gretzky because they thought it was time to rebuild do you?



No. Actually you're the one that's wrong. And I can't say it more simply than that either.

They traded him because of other pressures

He was still traded at age 27. If he can be moved so can kessel

You will get over it!

Sittler, Salming, Vaive, Clark, Gilmour were all traded.
Sundin left via ufa for nothing


Kessel could return a lot because of his game and abilities

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

Different era back then don't you think?

Being able to trade cash, less of a focus on drafting and developing your own players etc.

People will always go to extremes to prove their point.

Gretzky being traded will forever be used as an argument why everyone is 'available', just like the Gaustad trade will always be used as an argument why plugs are worth 1st rounders

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to the Toronto Star, if the Leafs make the playoffs, that's only good for Rogers. It could actually hurt Bell.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/break...ell-to-have-leafs-make-playoffs-not-much.html

So an up-tick in Leaf profits doesn't mean that much to Bell. BCE Inc. generates $20 billion in revenue annually.

TV ratings will go up as well. That's good for Bell/TSN and Rogers/Sportsnet in the regular season.

But if the Leafs make the playoffs, that's only good for Rogers. It could actually hurt Bell.

More eyeballs would be on the Leafs -- on Sportsnet's properties -- in spring meaning fewer would be on Bell's properties. Lucrative advertising money would flow to Rogers.

The two media giants already hate each other. Always have. Things only got worse when Sportsnet won a 12-year $5.2 billion deal with the NHL for exclusive national broadcasting rights. This is the first year of that deal.

The MLSE board has been at odds over who should replace Tim Leiweke as chief executive officer.

Last week, Bob McCown of Sportsnet TheFan590 and today, the Globe and Mail, reported that Sportsnet has won the bid for the 2016 World Cup of Hockey. David Shoalts' story suggests the bid was rigged in Sportsnet's favour, that maybe there's something in Rogers' deal with the NHL that gives Rogers the right to match.

Anyway, it all makes for an angry Bell.

 

[Kamal007]

I still don't understand how two companies that hate each other got together and said, "hey, lets buy a billion dollar company together". Was doomed from the start.

 

[Semantics]

Maybe in the same sense how Chicago didn't trade off vets like Sharp, Seabrook and Keith before their rebuild?

Those players were 28, 25, and 26 respectively when the Blackhawks won in 2010, they were in their early 20s when the hawks were at the point the Leafs are now.

Kessel will be several years older than that by the time the Leafs are ready to contend, I think there's merit to having veterans in their 30s on a contender(e.g. St. Louis, Hossa, Gaborik, but notice that those types are often rentals. Kessel is going to be too old to be a centerpiece of the team when we win and we need that cap space for the players who are.

Alternatively, think of it as maximizing the value of an asset. Having a prime Kessel on this team when we're tanking/rebuilding is a complete waste of his talents. Totally inefficient. Why not let some other team make use of that time, in exchange for futures that will help us more in the long run? It's like keeping a new car locked in your garage and depreciating while you travel for a few years instead of selling it and buying a replacement later on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

They traded him because of other pressures

He was still traded at age 27. If he can be moved so can kessel

You will get over it!

Sittler, Salming, Vaive, Clark, Gilmour were all traded.
Sundin left via ufa for nothing

Kessel could return a lot because of his game and abilities

Of course Kessel can be traded, so can anyone else. When have I ever said differently?

 

[Tak7]

I wonder what the declining Canadian dollar means for trade movements. It dropped below 80 cents for a few hours on Wednesday.

No doubt there's some serious concerns about the cap next year, especially keeping in mind there's no inflator %-age next season.

That would, theoretically, mean that teams are very hesitant to take on money - which means if you are a team like, say, Toronto, who wants to move money out, you are in a bit of trouble.

 

[Highlander23]

Only blind ppl would compaign to keep kessel/phaneuf on this roster. When will ppl wake up and realize that this supposed core is composed of players who were rejected/dumped by their former teams ????

 

[King Leaf]

Pushing the Kessel for Semin 1st 2nd last years 1st 7th OA Haydn Fleury.

This years first is top 6 or so.

Wow, this is actually a great trade for us and for the Canes if they're not looking to rebuild. I would also offer up Reimer to help solidify their goaltending. That's quite a haul for us though, so I don't know how we could swing this...maybe if Carolina goes on a serious run over the next few weeks and decides to make a push for the playoffs?

I do, so we rebuild, but then go back to our old dumb ways of spending assets and a ton of money on someone who is a year away from free agency. Part of rebuilding is getting rid of the bad old habits, not continue them, cause then we just end up like we are now.. All of a sudden we sign ROR long term and now we have a player we try and rush to build around..Same crap, same story, same results.

I agree, going for O'Reilly is a mistake, it doesn't look like the cap is going up this year, and we can't get sucked into signing a player for big money and long term again. I also like Kadri in the #2 slot, and he will come cheaper. At some point maybe we can explore picking up a two way winger like Hossa, but we need to address our Top 2 Centres and D first.

I still don't understand how two companies that hate each other got together and said, "hey, lets buy a billion dollar company together". Was doomed from the start.

Yeah, I don't understand this either, having the media companies that cover the Leafs also own the Leafs doesn't bode well either. Also, for whatever reason, I hate Rogers way more than Bell.