The All Encompassing JR Thread

[Empoleon8771]

Negatives:

Letting Fleury go. We won two cups with a 1A-1B tandem.

Oh, you're one of those fans

 

[ownal]

Oh, you're one of those fans

Pretty much, Murray won't win us another cup by himself. He is a fringe 1A goal that needs sheltered.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, he definitely deserves props there.

Honestly his trades this year I’ve been a big fan of.

Pearson, Bjugstad, McCann, and Pettersson in for a bunch of UFAs a couple 4ths a 2nd and a redundant boom or bust RW prospect is solid work.

I love the Pettersson trade. People can complain about Sully's usage of Sprong, but once it became clear that was the pattern I don't think Rutherford had any other choice than to trade and he got better value than any of us were expecting. That Pettersson seems to be really blooming here makes it allt he better.

The others... I like the value, I like the players, but I feel like we maybe saw a bit more getting players without thinking about fit.

Hagelin fitted really well here. I don't know how Pearson's going to work out here by the end of the season, but so far there's been hiccups (not entirely on him) and, well, eh.

The McCann and Bjugstad one looks really good until I ask myself who our 3C is and then I'm kinda bummed that Rutherford made that trade at that moment for another couple of gambles. But... long term, I think it should work out.

Negatives:

Letting Fleury go. We won two cups with a 1A-1B tandem.

Even if you're correct about Murray needing Flower, there was absolutely no other choice here. Flower wasn't staying around to be 1B and the price to protect both of him and Murray from Vegas would have been absolutely astronomic.

 

[NMK11]

Just want to set the record straight...


Brassard trade: GOOD. It was Brass at 3m. Are you kidding? Slam dunk. Hindsight? Awful. That is not on JR, IMO. That happens.
Florida trade: pretty good


Reaves trade stupid
Buffalo trade stupid but sort of understand.... until he signed JJ. Like wuuuut?

Not signing Bonino: Okay that's how salary cap teams work... but in hindsight AWFUL. Could have had Bones for free instead of trading a ton of assets for stuff that didn't work out. That is the reason why all of you people who want trades need to calm down. New toys do not always mean we have awesome fun toys. Like what really is the difference between Bjugs and Bones? Think about how much we gave up to make that trade off. That's bad.


The rest:

Not replacing Daley stupid
Hagelin trade whatever (except now he’s on the Caps)
Hunwick signing bad
Johnson signing WOAT

Not necessarily a reply to you in particular, but what you've laid out is pretty much how I feel so piggy backing onto it. I'll throw in Sprong for Pets good, although early, and Wilson for Sheahan good/meh.

Overall, since the second cup JR has had a great trade at the time which turned into awful with hindsight. A few good but incomplete moves, and then a whole lot of vary levels of bad cumulating with the albatross that is JJ.

I honestly just don't think he has a plan, and he's just gunning from the hip. He built up speed, then he moved away from it. Promoted hungry depth, then kept on a bunch of vets for the bottom 6, didn't want to pay Bonino, but then let us flounder for half a year without a 3C, and one year later is relying on a 4C or a preferred RW to fill the 3C spot. This roster doesn't suck like some people lament, it just doesn't seem cohesive, no form, no plan. JR will be remembered for assembling back to back cup champions, but anymore it just makes me wonder if he did so more by accident and less by forethought.

 

[K Fleur]

The only trade in three years that JR has made that’s definitively improved the team is getting Hainsey.

His UFA signings have been terrible.

 

[ownal]

Even if you're correct about Murray needing Flower, there was absolutely no other choice here. Flower wasn't staying around to be 1B and the price to protect both of him and Murray from Vegas would have been absolutely astronomic.

Flower would be 1A with about a 50 game work load.

 

[Gurglesons]

I love the Pettersson trade. People can complain about Sully's usage of Sprong, but once it became clear that was the pattern I don't think Rutherford had any other choice than to trade and he got better value than any of us were expecting. That Pettersson seems to be really blooming here makes it allt he better.

The others... I like the value, I like the players, but I feel like we maybe saw a bit more getting players without thinking about fit.

Hagelin fitted really well here. I don't know how Pearson's going to work out here by the end of the season, but so far there's been hiccups (not entirely on him) and, well, eh.

The McCann and Bjugstad one looks really good until I ask myself who our 3C is and then I'm kinda bummed that Rutherford made that trade at that moment for another couple of gambles. But... long term, I think it should work out.



Even if you're correct about Murray needing Flower, there was absolutely no other choice here. Flower wasn't staying around to be 1B and the price to protect both of him and Murray from Vegas would have been absolutely astronomic.

I think with McCann and Bjugstad you have two players that bring what Sheahan and Brassard did to this line up that can fight it out for the 3C spot this year and then slot either as the 4C or a top nine RW next year.

 

[ncm7772]

Negatives:

Letting Fleury go. We won two cups with a 1A-1B tandem.

Not much GMJR could do there. Was required to expose either Murray or Fleury. At the time, absolutely the right move.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pretty much, Murray won't win us another cup by himself. He is a fringe 1A goal that needs sheltered. Not to mention the fact that he is taking Vegas to the playoffs on his back.

If you're actually criticizing JR, you should actually come up with coherent complaints. Complaining about them not keeping Fleury is not a coherent complaint, it's absolutely nonsense.

 

[ColePens]

I think with McCann and Bjugstad you have two players that bring what Sheahan and Brassard did to this line up that can fight it out for the 3C spot this year and then slot either as the 4C or a top nine RW next year.

I gave you a nice shout and you don't even rub it in? Who are you anymore.

Bones was one of those guys that your damned if you do, damned if you don't and only time will tell if it is a mistake. Welp... it was a mistake. 4.1 for FREE for Bones is well worth it after how much was paid to get an equivalent in Bjugs.

Although #13 would have been hated on and blamed for things not his fault (Kessel's play). So there's that.

 

[ncm7772]

Pretty much, Murray won't win us another cup by himself. He is a fringe 1A goal that needs sheltered. Not to mention the fact that he is taking Vegas to the playoffs on his back.

Murray is the anti-Fleury when it comes to the NHL playoffs.

GMJR knew this. Made the right decision.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

I gave you a nice shout and you don't even rub it in? Who are you anymore.

Bones was one of those guys that your damned if you do, damned if you don't and only time will tell if it is a mistake. Welp... it was a mistake. 4.1 for FREE for Bones is well worth it after how much was paid to get an equivalent in Bjugs.

Although #13 would have been hated on and blamed for things not his fault (Kessel's play). So there's that.

Letting Bonino go was still the right call. Even with hindsight and what we have got since have been bad.

Don't over commit to role players.

 

[K Fleur]

JR’s streak of trades from Kessel-getting Shultz was incredible.

In the span of about 6 months he basically turned

Kapanen, Sutter, Perron, Scuderi, 1st

Into

Kessel, Hagelin, Daley, Schultz, Bonino

I think at the same time winning all of those trades from summer ‘15- trade deadline of ‘16 has enabled JR’s arrogance to the point where he thinks he’s the smartest GM in the league and can turn shit into gold.

 

[ColePens]

JR’s streak of trades from Kessel-getting Shultz was incredible.

I think at the same time winning all of those trades from summer ‘15- trade deadline of ‘16 has enabled JR’s arrogance to the point where he thinks he’s the smartest GM in the league and can turn **** into gold.

Then you start to wonder... was it all luck? Are we just randomly the luckiest team? Sid, Geno, Mario, Jagr, Francis, Letang, Coffey..... Was it skill?

Boy that deep dive could keep ya up at night.

 

[ownal]

If you're actually criticizing JR, you should actually come up with coherent complaints. Complaining about them not keeping Fleury is not a coherent complaint, it's absolutely nonsense.

Not protecting Fleury is my complaint?

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Then you start to wonder... was it all luck? Are we just randomly the luckiest team? Sid, Geno, Mario, Jagr, Francis, Letang, Coffey..... Was it skill?

Boy that deep dive could keep ya up at night.

Sid, Geno, Mario and Jagr is pure luck and coincidences. Getting that team from 2015-2016 is not as much luck, we've seen that it takes more than lucking into to Sid and Geno to get a cup.

But to make that happen you need guys who can get the right info across (Botterill) and a guy with the balls to make the right decisions (fresh Rutherford).

 

[cheesedanish87]

JR did a great job helping the Pens to 2 cups, but ever since then hes been awful.

He had success changing the Pens to a speed team then for whatever reason he changed the team to a bigger heavier slower team.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Letting Bonino go was still the right call. Even with hindsight and what we have got since have been bad.

Don't over commit to role players.

Yup- take a look at Bowman
That was a hard decision to trade Buff, but he knew he HAD TO because of Cap issues. Brilliant move

JR bungled the Brass thing- not in acquiring him, but in the assets he received last month for him. That's all we could manage fro Brass? Bad asset management...

 

[Empoleon8771]

I was going to go through all of JR's moves one by one to comment on each one since the 2017 draft, but it took too much time and I figured I'd just group them into categories.

• Re-signing players: I think he has actually done a fine to good job with re-signing players. The Dumoulin, DeSmith, Simon, Rust and Guentzel contracts were all good to great. Hornqvist was fine, it hasn't panned out great so far, but it's not a bad contract. Oleksiak, Sheahan and Sheary ended up not working out, but I don't think they were "bad" deals. I'm pretty sure that's mostly everyone.
• Trades: JR has made 3 types of trades in the last 2 years: bad trades, good value trades for players who don't fit and good value trades for players who fit, but aren't good enough to make a huge impact. I think most of his trades fall in the first 2 groups. The only trades in the last group are the Pettersson trade, Sheahan if you look at last year and the Bjugstad/McCann trade, and that's only if you don't consider the Bjugstad/McCann trade "bad" because of what Brassard cost. Pearson, Oleksiak, Sheahan if you look at this year and Brassard fit in the "bad fits" group, but I'm not sure if Brassard belongs in that group or the "bad trade" group.
• UFA contracts: horrendously bad. I don't think I need to go into any more details here. Hunwick was bad, Johnson was worse, they brought in Grant to be a tough guy and McKegg was signed to be their 3C in 2017. Just horrible.
• Replacing departed players: this is where JR has failed the most. JR may not have made the wrong decision to let those guys walk, but he has been horrible at replacing those guys. He tried to replace Daley with Hunwick, it was an absolute mess. He tried to replace Cole with Johnson, it has been an absolute mess. Kunitz was mostly replaced in the lineup with Reaves. It took him a year and a half to replace Bonino with a 3C that fit what the Penguins needed out of their 3C, and that's even with him getting a great return with Sheahan. Simon hasn't been able to replace Sheary. It goes on, the Penguins have downgraded across the chart when looking at replacements since the 2017 team.

Overall, I think he has done a poor job. I don't think I'd call it any worse than "poor", though. He's been good with re-signing players and a lot of his trades are good in value, a lot of those trades just haven't worked out. He has been a mess with replacing departed players from the 2017 team and he's been even worse in free agency, which takes him to poor for me.

 

[K Fleur]

Then you start to wonder... was it all luck? Are we just randomly the luckiest team? Sid, Geno, Mario, Jagr, Francis, Letang, Coffey..... Was it skill?

Boy that deep dive could keep ya up at night.

None of these 3 cups happen if the ping pong balls don’t bounce our way in the summer of 2005.

Luck does play a part in just about every team’s success.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

JR did a great job helping the Pens to 2 cups, but ever since then hes been awful.

He had success changing the Pens to a speed team then for whatever reason he changed the team to a bigger heavier slower team.

Tom Wilson, crumbled a dynasty all by himself.

 

[Gurglesons]

Letting Bonino go was still the right call. Even with hindsight and what we have got since have been bad.

Don't over commit to role players.

Is 4x4 over commitment? Because we spent 6 mil and 5.25 the past two years trying to fill that “role player’s” role.

 

[Shrimper]

The only trade in three years that JR has made that’s definitively improved the team is getting Hainsey.

His UFA signings have been terrible.

Kessel trade?

 

[Peat]

Flower would be 1A with about a 50 game work load.

Okay, Matt Murray asks for a trade instead. You simply can't keep two happy goaltenders in that situation and the price required to protect whichever goaltender you expose to Vegas is brutal.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

Is 4x4 over commitment? Because we spent 6 mil and 5.25 the past two years trying to fill that “role player’s” role.

And the results been bad.

Yes, in my opinion the right call was to let Bonino go and 4X4 would have ben an over commitment. He was a good 3C for us, but nothing spectacular and he disappeared for long stretches and was even the worst player on the roster for said long stretches.

If it wasn't for server change and the unreasonable ask, I'd tell you to go back to GDT's during those stretches to read about Bonino.

Edit: This will be my last post about it, I know your love for Bonino and I don't want to spend hours discussing him.

Feel free to have the last word.