Speculation: The All Encompassing Edmonton Oilers Thread

[darkwingduck]

I'd start with Zegras + Zellweger (or Luneau) as the base for a McDavid deal. We have a few expiring caps (albeit with some NTCs) to help match salary.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I'd start with Zegras + Zellweger (or Luneau) as the base for a McDavid deal. We have a few expiring caps (albeit with some NTCs) to help match salary.

trading McDavid for the guy we should have drafted instead of Broberg would be hilarious, but I sincerely don't think that's nearly enough as a starting point.

Would have to be McTavish + Zellweger ++, plus whatever expiring caps that likely won't have a ton of value.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

Just retool by trading McDavid and Leon. You're not winning anything right now with them because of DEPTH and LIMITED TRADE OPTIONS. One of the only real ways to build depth other than the draft are quality for quantity trades.

For example--- and I'm not the one who would make the trade-- but if you can get Power, Rosen, (former first rounder PPG+ his 2nd year in North America in AHL) Thompson, Cozens and two 1sts, you TAKE THAT AND GRAB IT.

You're not rebuilding and waiting in agony for your team to be good. Your simply re-tooling by sending out quality for depth which is the only way for Oilers to build a championship and be competitive.

Once you realize you aren't winning sh** these next couple years with the team as is, with very little hope of re-signing, I say trade ASAP while there's still value or a good ole' trade and sign to a new team.

If you did this with Leon AND McDavid, you will have so much cap space to build a TEAM with DEPTH, and not a 2 man show that can barely qualify for the playoffs or if they do they're exposed quickly before they advance too far.



I'm far from an Oilers hater, I love their fans and have friendships/alliances on here with Oil fans.

I just think this is the best way to approach it, as heartbreaking as it may be.

Now instead of 2 superstars making 15 mil-ish - you have like 7 stars/borderline superstars to fill out your roster making 7-9.

It profoundly enhances your team's ability to actually compete.

 

[theguardianII]

McDavid is going for a lot, but not that much.

Edmonton has been proving you can't win with the best player in the league if you don't have an actual team.

Marquee value. Just add 2000 bums in seats.

Gretzky went for more in a way, the first time anyway.

yep, there is no "I" in team

 

[Rich Nixon]

If the 3rd and 4th lines never get scored on then that is a win. The clock can be as much a competitor depending on the score. A 3rd/4thline that eats minutes and not scored on, that's a win. Especially if the top 2 lines can be as potent as the Oiler's can be. That and the PP and PK. Team's need only score one more goal than the opposition then.

Just wanted to air this out since the post is so ridiculous: No shit having two lines that literally never allowed a goal would be a win. Every team in the league would move mountains to have those 6 forwards.

The Oilers don't have that. No team has that. They have 2 Hall of Famers, 3 more good forwards, and 7 fourth liners. Maybe the worst forward depth in the league outside of SJ.

That's what screams to me every time I watch them (~5 times this season?) When they played the Flyers early on, they loaded up the Draisatl/McDavid first line and then had RNH, Hyman, and Foegele (who shouldn't be anywhere close to top 6 usage and is a drain on his line) together on the second and their usual jumble of trash below that. The Flyers had home ice, so they just glued Couturier to the McDavid unit at every change. Couturier ate that line up and his line outscored them 2 to 1.

So for the other 41 minutes of the game that McDavid and Draisatl were not on the ice, the Oilers were icing a significantly worse group of players than their opponent, a potential lottery team. The other 9 Oilers forwards combined for 9 shots. The Flyers could just play lazy dump and chase for 65% of the game because their opponents posed nothing close to a scoring threat.

It was one of the shittiest games you will see all season. You don't win hockey games by icing worse players than your opponent for the vast majority of every game. You have to do other things, too, but you gotta start there. The Oilers do not have the depth to even survive a team with a good shutdown center, let alone a McDavid injury. They have an utterly terrible lineup outside of a handful of names. They need to address their forward depth just as badly as their weaknesses at other positions.

 

[verdi]

Yet still your hockey IQ lacks common sense and logic...nobody is offended by you, how could they be . Your only hockey knowledge is based off playing x box with your great aunt Bertha in the double wide ... schools out son

Your English and sentence structure isn't legible. Try harder at school.

 

[tapi]

If Edmonton trades Drai and McDavid wisely they could be in contention in just a couple years. Get the package of Slavin and Aho from Car for McDavid, get a combination of top tier prospects/picks for Drai. Wait 2 years. Profit.

 

[Obvious Fabertism]

If Edmonton trades Drai and McDavid wisely they could be in contention in just a couple years. Get the package of Slavin and Aho from Car for McDavid, get a combination of top tier prospects/picks for Drai. Wait 2 years. Profit.

Yeah, the Oilers have such a solid core around these guys currently, time to let them spread their wings and fly!

I’m sure those picks and prospects would be as good as McDavid and Draisaitl in two years, how could they not be?

 

[WreckingCrew]

If Edmonton trades Drai and McDavid wisely they could be in contention in just a couple years. Get the package of Slavin and Aho from Car for McDavid, get a combination of top tier prospects/picks for Drai. Wait 2 years. Profit.

Slavin AND Aho? Dream on bruh

 

[bucks_oil]

Which is why I say in tandem with other moves—if you're retooling the roster on the fly you've gotta make cap space and remove redundant players, so an Ekholm or 2/3rds of Nurse's contract is where you can look to do that. Just spitballing though.

I don't think there's a silver bullet on defense. There just aren't gonna be guys available that they can work in there barring a monster deal—so it'd all be contingent on using the big value piece they have in Draisatl to get a blossoming defenseman before his big payday plus some young, dynamic depth to backfill up front—and then using whatever resources that are left to build on top of that.

Well right... that's exactly it. The moves the Oilers would have to make would require a lot of shuffling of salaries, which typically can only be done in the summer.

What big cap pieces could get Edmonton a huge haul?
McDavid
Draisaitl
And I'd argue a $3M retained Nurse would have (pretty big) positive value asset wise - but with $3M retained, you aren't going to help with cap

But that's kinda it.

What pieces could be jettisoned for improvements/same performance at lower cap?
$2.75M Foegele (expiring)
$2.3M Skinner
$3.3M Ceci
$2.75M Kulak? (this one is arguable)
$5M Campbell

And how many of those require picks to unload? Campbell for sure,... others probably not.

So if you chipped away at that wasted cap and traded one of the top-3, sure, you could reshape the roster... it's just pretty impractical in the here and now.

But you are probably right... if you can't find a way to win this year, you likely have to say goodbye to Draisaitl and replace with young talent... there certainly is none coming from our prospect ranks.

 

[McSuper]

What’s the market value of a Campbell dump? A 1st?

Times 3

 

[Rich Nixon]

Well right... that's exactly it. The moves the Oilers would have to make would require a lot of shuffling of salaries, which typically can only be done in the summer.

What big cap pieces could get Edmonton a huge haul?
McDavid
Draisaitl
And I'd argue a $3M retained Nurse would have (pretty big) positive value asset wise - but with $3M retained, you aren't going to help with cap

But that's kinda it.

What pieces could be jettisoned for improvements/same performance at lower cap?
$2.75M Foegele (expiring)
$2.3M Skinner
$3.3M Ceci
$2.75M Kulak? (this one is arguable)
$5M Campbell

And how many of those require picks to unload? Campbell for sure,... others probably not.

So if you chipped away at that wasted cap and traded one of the top-3, sure, you could reshape the roster... it's just pretty impractical in the here and now.

But you are probably right... if you can't find a way to win this year, you likely have to say goodbye to Draisaitl and replace with young talent... there certainly is none coming from our prospect ranks.

Yeah, they're in a tough situation they've made for themselves—which is why any hypothetical Draisatl trade would have to be a bit of a quantity trade, in my mind.

The Flyers aren't in that mode and I wouldn't want them to make that sort of trade, but I know them better than any team so I'll use their pieces for a hypothetical: a good young goalie (Hart), a good D on a cheap bridge deal with a ton of upside (York), an array of good 21-24 year old NHL forwards on cheap deals or ELCs (Tippett, Frost, Cates, Foerster, Brink), some high-end prospects (Gauthier, Bonk).

Again, completely hypothetical, just trying to illustrate the type of trade I think would actually make the Oilers a better team in the long run, you throw Draisatl to PHI for:

Hart, York, Tippett, Frost, Bonk, whatever 1st round pick/prospect sprinkling

That's not the big headline bunch. A lot of fans probably look at that and go: "OK; Who? Whatever; Who?; OK; Whatever." And then they scream "LOL NO WAY BRO BAD VALUE WHEREZ MICHKOV."

But that is damn near cap neutral. And then Edmonton suddenly has a good starting goalie, a new top 4 Dman (who can play either side), two new 40-50 point top 9 forwards (who could continue to grow), and a promising RD who is 1-2 years away...all signed cheap and under team control for 1-7 more years. They're suddenly a very different team without any additional cap gymnastics. That's before you deal Skinner, confront the Nurse/Ekholm situation, and watch the cap rise and Foegele walk.

Again, not going HAY GUYS THIS IS MY TRADE PROPOSAL, you can pick and choose from whatever pieces on whatever teams. Just illustrating the type of deal I think the Oilers would benefit most from if they were deciding to do it. You almost aren't going for big, bold names—you're looking to build actual lineup depth and a better defense. I think Boston has some interesting stuff that could be bundled up, too...trying to think offhand who else you could put together a good quantity/quality package from. High volume of B+ assets and one or two A ones might be the best use of a guy who is essentially a rental if traded in the offseason--even the best one year rental there is.

 

[Buffdog]

I think that the best way for Edmonton to receive the best returns on McDavid and Drai is to wait until the last year of their contracts and let them negotiate a new deal with the acquiring team

GMs are more likely to pay a premium for an asset if they know they'll be around for a while

 

[LTIR]

Not sure why Oilers are still given better odds to win the cup than teams like Rangers/Nucks etc that are much ahead in standings..

Was going to put in $100 on Oilers assuming the odds would be similar to Sharks winning it all.

 

[AvatarAang]

Yeah, they're in a tough situation they've made for themselves—which is why any hypothetical Draisatl trade would have to be a bit of a quantity trade, in my mind.

The Flyers aren't in that mode and I wouldn't want them to make that sort of trade, but I know them better than any team so I'll use their pieces for a hypothetical: a good young goalie (Hart), a good D on a cheap bridge deal with a ton of upside (York), an array of good 21-24 year old NHL forwards on cheap deals or ELCs (Tippett, Frost, Cates, Foerster, Brink), some high-end prospects (Gauthier, Bonk).

Again, completely hypothetical, just trying to illustrate the type of trade I think would actually make the Oilers a better team in the long run, you throw Draisatl to PHI for:

Hart, York, Tippett, Frost, Bonk, whatever pick

That's not the big headline bunch. A lot of fans probably look at that and go: "OK; Who? Whatever; Who?; OK; Whatever." And then they scream "LOL NO WAY BRO BAD VALUE WHEREZ MICHKOV."

But that is damn near cap neutral. And then Edmonton suddenly has a good starting goalie, a new top 4 Dman (who can play either side), two new 40-50 point top 9 forwards (who could continue to grow), and a promising RD who is 1-2 years away...all signed cheap and under team control for 1-7 more years. They're suddenly a very different team without any additional cap gymnastics. That's before you deal Skinner, confront the Nurse/Ekholm situation, and watch the cap rise and Foegele walk.

Again, not going HAY GUYS THIS IS MY TRADE PROPOSAL, you can pick and choose from whatever pieces on whatever teams. Just illustrating the type of deal I think the Oilers would benefit most from if they were deciding to do it. You almost aren't going for big, bold names—you're looking to build actual lineup depth and a better defense. I think Boston has some interesting stuff that could be bundled up, too...trying to think offhand who else you could put together a good quantity/quality package from.

Always fun to see a terrible trade proposal surrounded by lots of meaningless words to hide how bad it is.

Congrats, you found a way to make Edmonton worse than they already are.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Always fun to see a terrible trade proposal surrounded by lots of meaningless words to hide how bad it is.

Congrats, you found a way to make Edmonton worse than they already are.

Big yawn. Words are why we're all here. Read 'em or don't.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Yeah, they're in a tough situation they've made for themselves—which is why any hypothetical Draisatl trade would have to be a bit of a quantity trade, in my mind.

The Flyers aren't in that mode and I wouldn't want them to make that sort of trade, but I know them better than any team so I'll use their pieces for a hypothetical: a good young goalie (Hart), a good D on a cheap bridge deal with a ton of upside (York), an array of good 21-24 year old NHL forwards on cheap deals or ELCs (Tippett, Frost, Cates, Foerster, Brink), some high-end prospects (Gauthier, Bonk).

Again, completely hypothetical, just trying to illustrate the type of trade I think would actually make the Oilers a better team in the long run, you throw Draisatl to PHI for:

Hart, York, Tippett, Frost, Bonk, whatever 1st round pick/prospect sprinkling

That's not the big headline bunch. A lot of fans probably look at that and go: "OK; Who? Whatever; Who?; OK; Whatever." And then they scream "LOL NO WAY BRO BAD VALUE WHEREZ MICHKOV."

But that is damn near cap neutral. And then Edmonton suddenly has a good starting goalie, a new top 4 Dman (who can play either side), two new 40-50 point top 9 forwards (who could continue to grow), and a promising RD who is 1-2 years away...all signed cheap and under team control for 1-7 more years. They're suddenly a very different team without any additional cap gymnastics. That's before you deal Skinner, confront the Nurse/Ekholm situation, and watch the cap rise and Foegele walk.

Again, not going HAY GUYS THIS IS MY TRADE PROPOSAL, you can pick and choose from whatever pieces on whatever teams. Just illustrating the type of deal I think the Oilers would benefit most from if they were deciding to do it. You almost aren't going for big, bold names—you're looking to build actual lineup depth and a better defense. I think Boston has some interesting stuff that could be bundled up, too...trying to think offhand who else you could put together a good quantity/quality package from. High volume of B+ assets and one or two A ones might be the best use of a guy who is essentially a rental if traded in the offseason.

I always think it's funny when someone makes a trade proposal for Draisaitl that doesn't include any of their best current players, but also just for fun, doesn't include any of their top prospects either.

Firstly, Frost isn't going to have a lot of value to anyone else right now. Certainly not enough to be a lynchpin in a Draisaitl trade. Philly is handling him weirdly this year and giving other teams the impression he has attitude problems. York is decent, but nothing special. Doesn't do a lot for us as a LD.

Hart is good but not great. Tippett is good but not great. Fine additions, but not exciting.

For me a Philly deal looks like this - and I warn you you're gonna hate it.

Konecny, Tippett, Gauthier, Laughton, 1st
For
Draisaitl, 2nd, McLeod, Campbell

 

[Soundwave]

Draisaitl and McDavid are not being traded, not sure how much more obvious it can be made by Katz getting McDavid's agent and former coach back into the org. Draisaitl is super close to McDavid so that's a non-starter there too.

The Oilers will trade all their 1sts from now until McDavid's contract is up and every prospect if that's what it takes to be competitive now. They need a top 3 D and a goalie primarily, that's not rocket science exactly.

After the McDavid era (whether that's 3 years from now or 8+ years from now) the Oilers can go back to tanking for top draft picks to their hearts content, no one cares. But for now they are going to have to double down on this. There is no quitting.

If you have to pay the price for a Saros or Ullmark or whoever if that's what it takes.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Discussing McDavid trades seems like a waste it will never happen unless he asks for a trade and even then who wants to be the GM known for trading him?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Discussing McDavid trades seems like a waste it will never happen unless he asks for a trade and even then who wants to be the GM known for trading him?

That would be why Holland has kicked everything down the road into next year, including Brown's bonus. He's retiring, what does he care? He's going to deal our next three firsts and any prospect worth a damn to try to rescue this year - which by the way is his fault.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I always think it's funny when someone makes a trade proposal for Draisaitl that doesn't include any of their best current players, but also just for fun, doesn't include any of their top prospects either.

Firstly, Frost isn't going to have a lot of value to anyone else right now. Certainly not enough to be a lynchpin in a Draisaitl trade. Philly is handling him weirdly this year and giving other teams the impression he has attitude problems. York is decent, but nothing special. Doesn't do a lot for us as a LD.

Hart is good but not great. Tippett is good but not great. Fine additions, but not exciting.

For me a Philly deal looks like this - and I warn you you're gonna hate it.

Konecny, Tippett, Gauthier, Laughton, 1st
For
Draisaitl, 2nd, McLeod, Campbell

That's fine value to me if it's, say, a Florida first or top-5 protected. I didn't clarify well enough the sprinkling SHOULD be things like 1sts. Konecny is also only a year left on his deal, and you'd probably be better off subbing in Frost or York for Tippett--they're better players (mishandling of Frost aside) and another sniping wing would get a little redundant if TK is the main draw. York would do a lot more from them.

But you can throw the value wherever it needs to be, the point I care more about is like, if you're trading something as big as Draisatl you might wanna try to get a line and a D pairing out of it, rather than just another big name or a shitload of picks.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That's fine value to me if it's, say, a Florida first or top-5 protected. I didn't clarify well enough the sprinkling SHOULD be things like 1sts. Konecny is also only a year left on his deal, and you'd probably be better off subbing in Frost or York for Tippett--they're better players at better value (mishandling of Frost aside) and another sniping wing would get a little redundant if TK is the main draw. York would do a lot more from them.

But you can throw the value in whatever direction, the point I care more about is like, if you're trading something as bug as Draisatl you might wanna try to get a line and a D pairing out of it, rather than just another big name or a shitload of picks.

I forgot to add Hart haha

Konecny has the same length on his deal that Draisaitl does. Konecny/Hart/Gauthier/1st/Laughton for the Edmonton package maybe.

The problem with trading Draisaitl for one single big piece is you're robbing peter to pay Paul. You're not necessarily getting any better, and you're probably getting worse if it's for a D because finding a defenceman as impactful as Draisaitl is limits you to maybe five guys, so you go down a tier and have add ins and it gets messy. Better to keep Leon and only trade him if you absolutely have to and we're not there yet.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

That would be why Holland has kicked everything down the road into next year, including Brown's bonus. He's retiring, what does he care? He's going to deal our next three firsts and any prospect worth a damn to try to rescue this year - which by the way is his fault.

A McDavid trade is an ownership decision though. Even if Holland hypothetically was willing to do it, is the owner going to sign off?

 

[Rich Nixon]

I forgot to add Hart haha

Konecny has the same length on his deal that Draisaitl does. Konecny/Hart/Gauthier/1st/Laughton for the Edmonton package maybe.

The problem with trading Draisaitl for one single big piece is you're robbing peter to pay Paul. You're not necessarily getting any better, and you're probably getting worse if it's for a D because finding a defenceman as impactful as Draisaitl is limits you to maybe five guys, so you go down a tier and have add ins and it gets messy. Better to keep Leon and only trade him if you absolutely have to and we're not there yet.

I'd just move over and tell you now to take the young defenseman rather than Laughton. Hart/Konecny/1st/Gauthier is a strong foundation, but I think tacking on things like Campbell neglects the value and extreme cost of cap space these days, so my math was like...one Konecny or 3 slick 22-24 year old point producers who cost the same amount and are still under RFA control. If we start lumping the Campbell problem into this ordeal, it's a whole different equation.

I don't think the Oilers are at the point of trading Drai yet unless they crash and burn spectacularly all season. But I think they are in the weirdest position of any team in the league and are gonna need someone way more creative and audacious than Holland to dig them out.

 

[bucks_oil]

Yeah, they're in a tough situation they've made for themselves—which is why any hypothetical Draisatl trade would have to be a bit of a quantity trade, in my mind.

The Flyers aren't in that mode and I wouldn't want them to make that sort of trade, but I know them better than any team so I'll use their pieces for a hypothetical: a good young goalie (Hart), a good D on a cheap bridge deal with a ton of upside (York), an array of good 21-24 year old NHL forwards on cheap deals or ELCs (Tippett, Frost, Cates, Foerster, Brink), some high-end prospects (Gauthier, Bonk).

Again, completely hypothetical, just trying to illustrate the type of trade I think would actually make the Oilers a better team in the long run, you throw Draisatl to PHI for:

Hart, York, Tippett, Frost, Bonk, whatever 1st round pick/prospect sprinkling

That's not the big headline bunch. A lot of fans probably look at that and go: "OK; Who? Whatever; Who?; OK; Whatever." And then they scream "LOL NO WAY BRO BAD VALUE WHEREZ MICHKOV."

But that is damn near cap neutral. And then Edmonton suddenly has a good starting goalie, a new top 4 Dman (who can play either side), two new 40-50 point top 9 forwards (who could continue to grow), and a promising RD who is 1-2 years away...all signed cheap and under team control for 1-7 more years. They're suddenly a very different team without any additional cap gymnastics. That's before you deal Skinner, confront the Nurse/Ekholm situation, and watch the cap rise and Foegele walk.

Again, not going HAY GUYS THIS IS MY TRADE PROPOSAL, you can pick and choose from whatever pieces on whatever teams. Just illustrating the type of deal I think the Oilers would benefit most from if they were deciding to do it. You almost aren't going for big, bold names—you're looking to build actual lineup depth and a better defense. I think Boston has some interesting stuff that could be bundled up, too...trying to think offhand who else you could put together a good quantity/quality package from. High volume of B+ assets and one or two A ones might be the best use of a guy who is essentially a rental if traded in the offseason--even the best one year rental there is.

Dude... where's Michkov?!

I jest... I know you are trying to talk in the abstract, but are working with the contraints of what your team has to offer (with as others have pointed out, the bias of trying to keep your favorite shiny things), but the reality is that anything would be on the table.

My problem with the assets you offer up is that there is a combination of:
1) limited upside, I don't think anyone sees Carter Hart as a future HOF or even a surefire #1
2) not established, still lots of risk around those prospects / NHL RFAs
3) limited contracts, most of the assets offered are up for contract in less than two years... if they hit, Edmonton is right back in cap hell. If they don't they certainly lose the trade...

Any trade for Draisaitl would be a combination of:
1) ESTABLISHED TALENT ON SWEETHEART CONTRACT that is either a two-way C, two-way D or G with #1 potential... that is cost controlled for at least 4 useful seasons beginning now
2) At least one other solid NHLer making about half what they are worth, that while not the centerpiece, also fits in the above positional gaps
3) 2-3 other 1st round level futures either A prospects or 1sts, at least one of which is on ELC ready to play as early as playoffs or next year while we still have McD

Think Lindros trade and pair it back only a touch. We want our (cost controlled) Hextall, Ricci, Duchesne, Forsberg and a 1st. Alright, fine... we'll take three from the list (as long as they are cost controlled).