Blue Jays Discussion: The 3B hero the Blue Jays need: Drury hits walk-off HR! (oh and some kid played too)

[zeke]

Can someone explain the logic behind the Grichuk extension? His numbers, outside of power, don't look good at all.

he's a decent value for the money, but more important for this stock-market FO is tradeability, and they've structured his contract to make him a better trade chip in 2yrs.

 

[Discoverer]

Im not fond of the Grichuk extension too but a lot more variables than what you just posted at face value.

Grichuk's demands were clearly in line with the team's to get something done.
We do not know what Stroman is asking for. Plus there are off the field issues where they do not want to invest in that player long term.

What i like from the Grichuk extension is they gave him a 2M bump this season with a 5M signing bonus and 12M in year 2. Presumably when we contend again the final 3 years of his deal will be slightly lower at 9.33M per. Some smarter posters brought this up as an idea well before; front load the contract(i use it lightly here with the Grichuk extension but the theory applies as they will save 2.42M per in the last 3 years) and get guys to have lower AVV during your window of contention so you can spend more on other areas. Stroman and Sanchez are targets that could be signed to similar concepts.

As someone who's been predicting a Grichuk breakout in 2019, I like the extension a lot. There's a bit of risk, but if the plan is to push for contention from 2021 on, then having a ~2 WAR player making $10 million for the first three years of contention is a good thing. If he does end up breaking out this year, it could end up looking great in a hurry.

 

[zeke]

Meh. Removing mediocre vets to provide playing time (and MLB evaluation time) for upper level prospects is never a bad thing, imo (and yours, formally lol).

if we had actually been clearing room for top prospects, I'd agree, but it seems like this FO is still intent on stockpiling prime aged filler (like brito) instead.

 

[phillipmike]

1. and yet still, just dumping vets doesn't actually help the rebuild.

There are many benefits to your teams long term approach - see; Blue Jays Discussion: - "We're not in a popularity contest, we're in a contest to win championships."

If you disagree then you are disagreeing with yourself because you wanted to see this. If there is no value to your rebuild then why say it?

2. by the sounds of it, 26yr old brito is the guy who will be getting playing time in 30yr old pillar's place.

Sounds of what? The voices in your head?

Pillar was rumored to be dealt on opening day and the had Alford in Toronto. Toronto trades Pillar and Alford is starting that day IN Pillar's old position. Brito might be up at some point to play but he isnt being handed a starting spot. Jays are rolling an 8 man pen... there is room for Brito and Alford.

 

[zeke]

There are many benefits to your teams long term approach - see; Blue Jays Discussion: - "We're not in a popularity contest, we're in a contest to win championships."

If you disagree then you are disagreeing with yourself because you wanted to see this. If there is no value to your rebuild then why say it?

again, the act of dumping vets in and of itself in no way helps the rebuild.

 

[zeke]

first impressions on Montoyo?

seems like he's more by the book than gibbons on in game tactics. i.e. he bunts more, and he does things like "intentionally walk the slugger" even when that "slugger" is....chris davis.

 

[phillipmike]

again, the act of dumping vets in and of itself in no way helps the rebuild.

And again you are wrong. Every rebuilding team does it to open up spots for younger players to see what you have. Either to develop them or audition them for trade.

 

[phillipmike]

 

[canucksfan]

if we had actually been clearing room for top prospects, I'd agree, but it seems like this FO is still intent on stockpiling prime aged filler (like brito) instead.

Pillar’s value isn’t that high. Jays were never going to get top prospects for him. As a result, they either keep him or get the best value for him and allow some of the younger players playing time. It’s the same with Morales. There is no way the team was going to get a decent return for him. Best to dump him and allow Tellez to play.

Like Donaldson, they waited too long to trade Pillar IMO.

Brito might take Alford’s spot so he can get more time in Buffalo. After his poor year last year I think that’s reasonable.

 

[zeke]

And again you are wrong. Every rebuilding team does it to open up spots for younger players to see what you have. Either to develop them or audition them for trade.

again, dumping vets in and of itself doesn't help a rebuild.

the ONLY thing that helps a rebuild is acquiring quality players.

 

[zeke]

Pillar’s value isn’t that high. Jays were never going to get top prospects for him. As a result, they either keep him or get the best value for him and allow some of the younger players playing time. It’s the same with Morales. There is no way the team was going to get a decent return for him. Best to dump him and allow Tellez to play.

Like Donaldson, they waited too long to trade Pillar IMO.

Brito might take Alford’s spot so he can get more time in Buffalo. After his poor year last year I think that’s reasonable.

you haven't seen me complain about the pillar trade.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I mean in the MLB draft. Vlad was a international signing.

You fail to understand my jest. (i.e. the Blue Jays will likely not be in the top-5, let alone top-8 of this year's draft simply due to the talent that will be on the 25 man roster for the prevailing part of the season).

if we had actually been clearing room for top prospects, I'd agree, but it seems like this FO is still intent on stockpiling prime aged filler (like brito) instead.

Meh. I fail to see how Brito is in any way a nuisance. Filler in Triple-A or lottery ticket. Very meh.

 

[Discoverer]

1. and yet still, just dumping vets doesn't actually help the rebuild.

2. by the sounds of it, 26yr old brito is the guy who will be getting playing time in 30yr old pillar's place.

If they do go that route, then Brito will just be filling the role Pompey was likely going to fill by stepping in for a bit and letting Alford have a couple months in Buffalo.

 

[zeke]

pretty sure Atkins said that all of Hanson brito (and law?) were coming to the big team, not going to buffalo.

which means less room for the kids than we had yesterday, not more.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

"One of the fastest players in baseball"

(DJQ looks at prospect grades to refresh memory.... *60/60 FV run*)

Welp, that's all I need to know about Shelly Duncan.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

pretty sure Atkins said that all of Hanson brito (and law?) were coming to the big team, not going to buffalo.

which means less room for the kids than we had yesterday, not more.

I'll reserve judgement. If any of Vlad, Jansen, Tellez, McKinney, Alford, Teoscar, Gurriel do not receive significant innings\ab's as the result of any of that fodder, then I too will be annoyed. Until it happens though....meh.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If they do go that route, then Brito will just be filling the role Pompey was likely going to fill by stepping in for a bit and letting Alford have a couple months in Buffalo.

I don't see the problem with it either. If he gets full reps there, that's great. He probably could have got decent reps on the Jays too, but it was not like he did well in AAA so a few months there won't hurt. Then in a few months if he is ready, there is an easy swap of Brito for Alford, rather than having to figure out a Pillar trade or something later on. The opportunity presented itself now, so take it, find a brief filler with upside for practically nothing (trading Orozco may actually end up giving the good AA OF prospects more playing time, since I doubt Guillotte or whomever is going to be the next 4th OF in New Hampshire is going to play as much as Orozco likely would have) and go from there.

Either way, I'm happy with the direction of the team. I just hope they trust younger guys who are ready (i.e. Urena) over older guys like Hansen. I don't think Urena stands to gain anything more out of AAA, and it's not like they have a ton of playing time for him down there either.

 

[Discoverer]

pretty sure Atkins said that all of Hanson brito (and law?) were coming to the big team, not going to buffalo.

which means less room for the kids than we had yesterday, not more.

Last year at AAA:

Alford - 87 wRC+
Urena - 61 wRC+

I want the "Needs reps in the majors to see what he can do" group to get every opportunity possible in the majors. I don't think Alford and Urena will be hurt by spending a little more time in Buffalo.

 

[phillipmike]

again, dumping vets in and of itself doesn't help a rebuild.

the ONLY thing that helps a rebuild is acquiring quality players.

Your baseball knowledge lessen by the day.

If you have "quality players" and dont have room to play them because they are blocked by non core players then what happens? You have to dump players to make room and playing time for the "quality players".

plus you changed your tune;

1st you said

1. and yet still, just dumping vets doesn't actually help the rebuild.

now you say:

again, dumping vets in and of itself doesn't help a rebuild.

Yes ONLY dumping vets doesnt help a rebuild but you didnt originally say that. But dump vets is a necessary part of a rebuild that helps said rebuild. Your 2nd statement is right now that you revised. Glad we can agree your original statement - the root of our disagreement was wrong hence why you added the "in and of itself"

But we have this new statement that is wrong.

the ONLY thing that helps a rebuild is acquiring quality players.

Cant have quality players and no where to play them if you dont dump vets to open up roster spots.

Cant have one thing or another to have a successful rebuild. There are many factors and moving parts.

 

[zeke]

Last year at AAA:

Alford - 87 wRC+
Urena - 61 wRC+

I want the "Needs reps in the majors to see what he can do" group to get every opportunity possible in the majors. I don't think Alford and Urena will be hurt by spending a little more time in Buffalo.

And I agree.

which is neither here nor there to what I said - that dumping vets in and of itself doesn't actually help the rebuild.

 

[zeke]

Your baseball knowledge lessen by the day.

If you have "quality players" and dont have room to play them because they are blocked by non core players then what happens? You have to dump players to make room and playing time for the "quality players".

plus you changed your tune;

1st you said


now you say:


Yes ONLY dumping vets doesnt help a rebuild but you didnt originally say that. But dump vets is a necessary part of a rebuild that helps said rebuild. Your 2nd statement is right now that you revised. Glad we can agree your original statement - the root of our disagreement was wrong hence why you added the "in and of itself"

But we have this new statement that is wrong.



Cant have quality players and no where to play them if you dont dump vets to open up roster spots.

Cant have one thing or another to have a successful rebuild. There are many factors and moving parts.

again, the moves yesterday only clogged the roster more, not less.

 

[phillipmike]

again, the moves yesterday only clogged the roster more, not less.

Changing your tune again with another false statement rather than admit you were wrong... never change zeke... never change.

 

[Discoverer]

"One of the fastest players in baseball"

(DJQ looks at prospect grades to refresh memory.... *60/60 FV run*)

Welp, that's all I need to know about Shelly Duncan.

Statcast Sprint Speed Leaderboard

Looks like Duncan's analysis might be closer to reality than the scouts'...

 

[phillipmike]

De Paula 30th on the Jays top 30

MLB.com 2019 Prospect Watch

 

[phillipmike]

Statcast Sprint Speed Leaderboard

Looks like Duncan's analysis might be closer to reality than the scouts'...

Didnt expect to see Teoscar on this list as the highest Jay. (Davis doesnt count for me)