Blue Jays Discussion: The 3B hero the Blue Jays need: Drury hits walk-off HR! (oh and some kid played too)

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The Nemesis

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Apr 11, 2005
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over/under 60 wins.

any guesses..

more than likely over. 60 wins means 100 losses and in any given year you usually only average 1 or 2 100-loss teams. Even as they are right now I feel confident in saying that the Jays are not worse than the Orioles (acknowledging that they've lost 2 in a row vs Baltimore so far), Tigers, Royals, or Marlins. And the team will get better when Vlad comes up, and guys get more comfortable. The offence will not suck as bad as it does right now for an entire season, and the pitching has mostly been good so far. The Jays remain projected for about 75 wins. Hitting 60 would be a significant fall.
 
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jrgtml67

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It hurts to lose a guy we grew to love but sadly Atkins is correct. They (Ross and Mark) did the same in Cleveland and built a great team, a team that beat us in the ALCS. We will heal, and grow to love others. Vladdy JR, Bichette, Alford, Biggio (I hope he does well in I believe AAA correct me someone if I'm wrong). We have a good framework of young studs. That's not even pitching included. A name I think will throw literal smoke for us in the next 1 to 3 is Nate Pearson...kid looks like real deal and was firing it up last yr until his surgery. Anyway thanks Kevin, Jose, Josh, Russell, Edwin, Tulo, Happ..but we are in a full rebuild. Part of me thinks Smoak maybe next, and maybe Sanchez or Stroman..quite clear we are finishing a 2 yr year down
 

RoadWarrior

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It hurts to lose a guy we grew to love but sadly Atkins is correct. They (Ross and Mark) did the same in Cleveland and built a great team, a team that beat us in the ALCS. We will heal, and grow to love others. Vladdy JR, Bichette, Alford, Biggio (I hope he does well in I believe AAA correct me someone if I'm wrong). We have a good framework of young studs. That's not even pitching included. A name I think will throw literal smoke for us in the next 1 to 3 is Nate Pearson...kid looks like real deal and was firing it up last yr until his surgery. Anyway thanks Kevin, Jose, Josh, Russell, Edwin, Tulo, Happ..but we are in a full rebuild. Part of me thinks Smoak maybe next, and maybe Sanchez or Stroman..quite clear we are finishing a 2 yr year down

Moving older players makes sense IF you can get a decent return.

I think they may have gotten more closer to the trade deadline. De Paula projects as a middle reliever with average control.

When they move vets like Morales and eat most of the contract or trade good players like Pillar for mediocre prospects it honestly feels like they’re just dumping players for being associated with the previous management team.

Expect Smoak, Sanchez and Stroman to be next on the trade block....just don’t expect much in return.
 
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pylon17

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Will this be the highest pick we’ve ever hard? Is there a list of the top draft-eligible prospects?
 

Suntouchable13

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Moving older players makes sense IF you can get a decent return.

I think they may have gotten more closer to the trade deadline. De Paula projects as a middle reliever with average control.

When they move vets like Morales and eat most of the contract or trade good players like Pillar for mediocre prospects it honestly feels like they’re just dumping players for being associated with the previous management team.

Expect Smoak, Sanchez and Stroman to be next on the trade block....just don’t expect much in return.

Morales was the current management's acquisition. I never got attached to Pillar like most. I think he got really overrated due to a few highlight reel catches. A mediocre player.
 

Discoverer

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Moving older players makes sense IF you can get a decent return.

I think they may have gotten more closer to the trade deadline. De Paula projects as a middle reliever with average control.

When they move vets like Morales and eat most of the contract or trade good players like Pillar for mediocre prospects it honestly feels like they’re just dumping players for being associated with the previous management team.

Expect Smoak, Sanchez and Stroman to be next on the trade block....just don’t expect much in return.

They have a ton of decent young players close to ready for the majors. These trades have been primarily about finding playing time for them.

(And, as already pointed out, Morales has nothing to do with the previous management team. Neither did Diaz.)
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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Moving older players makes sense IF you can get a decent return.

I think they may have gotten more closer to the trade deadline. De Paula projects as a middle reliever with average control.

When they move vets like Morales and eat most of the contract or trade good players like Pillar for mediocre prospects it honestly feels like they’re just dumping players for being associated with the previous management team.

Expect Smoak, Sanchez and Stroman to be next on the trade block....just don’t expect much in return.

A decent return isnt a realistic expectation if we arent talking about decent players. Jays FO made the most of players who were either old, not part of your next core, not particular good, block MLB ready prospects, making a lot of money, had little no control or all of the above.

Jays save 11.4M this season, get the vets to good situations and open up playing time for Gurriel, Jansen, Tellez and now Alford. All around good moves for the parties involved.

Also got;

RHP Andrew Sopko
SS Ronny Brito
SS Jesus Lopez
UTIL Alen Hanson
RHP Derek Law
RHP Juan De Paula
1M in International Slot money

This list isnt particularly good and i think the Jays will be lucky if maybe 1 or 2 will make an impact for the Jays. But the value isnt in this list - the value is in the playing time Gurriel, Jansen, Tellez and Alford get. You are now spending valuable major league resources in developing these players and just gained 11.4M on this seasons payroll to potentially use on any opportunity costs that arise in season.

Now if we are talking decent players like Smoak, Sanchez and Stroman then the returns should be better. Not just opening up roster spots but acquiring players that will likely be part of your next core (more Sanchez and Stroman than Smoak).
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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Homecomings:
Pillars and Solarte return: April 23-24
Estrada and Morales' return: April 26-28
Tulo and Happ return: June 4-6
Martin return: August 20-22

Pearce return: May 20-23
Osuna and Diaz return: August 30 to Sept 1
Donaldson and AA Return: August 27-28
Edwin Return as M's: August 16-18

Travis return from the DL: ???
 

phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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yeah, people seem to forget that just dumping vets doesn't actually help the rebuild.

This is what you wanted - dump the vets for a super cheap and young 2019.

Blue Jays Discussion: - If a Blue Jay falls in a Tavares/Kawhi forest and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Supercheap 2019 - Dump all of Martin, Tulo, Pillar, Smoak, Solarte, Morales.

CF Pompey 26
RF Grichuk 27
LF McKinney 24
3B Gurriel 25
SS Diaz 28
2B Travis 28
1B Tellez 24
C Jansen 24
DH Hernandez 26

UT Drury 26 ---- Biggio 24
OF Smith 26 ---- Alford 24
IF Lopes 25 ---- Urena 23
C Maile 28 ----- McGuire 24

X - Guerrero 20, Bichette 21

SP Stroman 28
SP Sanchez 26
SP Borucki 25
SP Pannone 25
SP SRF 23
SP Zeuch 23

RP Osuna 24
RP Tepera 31
RP Biagini 29
RP Gaviglio 29
RP Loup 31
RP Barnes 29
RP Mayza 27

You wanted to see a young team get playing time. They are doing that and its still a problem? Hmmm i wonder why. Moving goal posts so you can always "justify" your illogical position(s).

From this past Thursday;

Blue Jays Discussion: - So long Pillar, and thanks for all the catches


just let us have it.....

CF Alford 24
RF Grichuk 27
LF McKinney 24
3B Vladdy 20
SS Bichette 21
2B Gurriel 25
1B Tellez 24
DH Hernandez 26
C Jansen 24

UT Drury 26
OF Pompey 26
IF Urena 23
C McGuire 24


SP Stroman 28
SP Sanchez 26
SP Borucki 25
SP R-Foley 23
SP Thornton 25

SP Pannone 25
SP Paulino 25
SP Waguespack 25
SP Zeuch 23
SP Perez 23


Short of Shoemaker, Smoak and Maile, they gave you want you wanted. I suspect Smoak and Shoemaker will be gone by the deadline too. Vladdy will be up when he id healthy. Only guy you have to wait on is Bichette. Cant happen over night but slowly what you wanted to see is happening BUT still a problem for you.
 

Brobust

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Sep 29, 2017
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Can someone explain the logic behind the Grichuk extension? His numbers, outside of power, don't look good at all.
 

TheTotalPackage

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The Grichuk extension caught me by surprise. It's definitely more than I was thinking he'd get. But he's also a player I didn't expect this management group to have be one of their first ones they hitch their wagon to for more than a season or two.

I'm confused. A 27-year old Grichuk plays a position the Jays are sorely lacking in and is given a lengthy extension through the lean years. But it's a foregone conclusion that a 27-year old Stroman, on a team starving for quality pitching, is not going to be re-signed and instead going to be traded as soon as they are offered a package they like.
 
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phillipmike

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Oct 27, 2009
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The Grichuk extension caught me by surprise. It's definitely more than I was thinking he'd get. But he's also a player I didn't expect this management group to have be one of their first ones they hitch their wagon to for more than a season or two.

I'm confused. A 27-year old Grichuk plays a position the Jays are sorely lacking in and is given a lengthy extension through the lean years. But it's a foregone conclusion that a 27-year old Stroman, on a team starving for quality pitching, is not going to be re-signed and instead going to be traded as soon as they are offered a package they like.

Im not fond of the Grichuk extension too but a lot more variables than what you just posted at face value.

Grichuk's demands were clearly in line with the team's to get something done.
We do not know what Stroman is asking for. Plus there are off the field issues where they do not want to invest in that player long term.

What i like from the Grichuk extension is they gave him a 2M bump this season with a 5M signing bonus and 12M in year 2. Presumably when we contend again the final 3 years of his deal will be slightly lower at 9.33M per. Some smarter posters brought this up as an idea well before; front load the contract(i use it lightly here with the Grichuk extension but the theory applies as they will save 2.42M per in the last 3 years) and get guys to have lower AVV during your window of contention so you can spend more on other areas. Stroman and Sanchez are targets that could be signed to similar concepts.
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
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I understand the rationale behind the Grichuk extension, and I don't mind it at all.

It could turn out to be a tremendous bargain if he continues to build on his second half last season. Worst case scenario, he ends up being slightly overpaid as an everyday major league outfielder that never quite reached his offensive potential.
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
11,510
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The Grichuk extension caught me by surprise. It's definitely more than I was thinking he'd get. But he's also a player I didn't expect this management group to have be one of their first ones they hitch their wagon to for more than a season or two.

I'm confused. A 27-year old Grichuk plays a position the Jays are sorely lacking in and is given a lengthy extension through the lean years. But it's a foregone conclusion that a 27-year old Stroman, on a team starving for quality pitching, is not going to be re-signed and instead going to be traded as soon as they are offered a package they like.

If Sanchez and Stroman bounce back this season, I would be all over offering extensions to both of them. They are young enough to be a significant part of the equation when this team is ready to contend for a playoff spot.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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This is what you wanted - dump the vets for a super cheap and young 2019.

Blue Jays Discussion: - If a Blue Jay falls in a Tavares/Kawhi forest and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?



You wanted to see a young team get playing time. They are doing that and its still a problem? Hmmm i wonder why. Moving goal posts so you can always "justify" your illogical position(s).

From this past Thursday;

Blue Jays Discussion: - So long Pillar, and thanks for all the catches





Short of Shoemaker, Smoak and Maile, they gave you want you wanted. I suspect Smoak and Shoemaker will be gone by the deadline too. Vladdy will be up when he id healthy. Only guy you have to wait on is Bichette. Cant happen over night but slowly what you wanted to see is happening BUT still a problem for you.


1. and yet still, just dumping vets doesn't actually help the rebuild.

2. by the sounds of it, 26yr old brito is the guy who will be getting playing time in 30yr old pillar's place.
 
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