Post-Game Talk: The 3 "GOATS" of the Game

[Whaddagoal]

The "I think I made the correct choice" look.

View attachment 474525

I'm glad he didn't score on us!

He must have felt bad for us, and didn't pull out the diving poke-check goals from his back pocket.....out of pure mercy and love for Devils fans.

 

[My3Sons]

Yeah but I also think part of it is the narrative that goes along with “we’re building around Hischier and Hughes.” Sure, Hughes. But building around a 50 point player is not really a recipe for success.

If the team is bad again presumably they add a building block piece in the draft. That's obviously a very disappointing outcome. That said, I think the team is going to skew younger. So far, guys like Zacha, Bratt, McLeod, MBW, Nico, et al. have not been good enough or at least consistent enough to move the team forward significantly. I'm not advocating to trade them all but it looks to me that the only obvious top line core guy is Hughes. I get the idea of Nico as the heart and soul glue guy but he's a 2C and should be viewed as such. I think that in two years the lineup will start to look different again. It may not be until they have a legit first line with Hughes that we see the real progress we hope for. That's a long slog but it may be unavoidable.

 

[Patrik26]

I'm glad he didn't score on us!

He must have felt bad for us, and didn't pull out the diving poke-check goals from his back pocket.....out of pure mercy and love for Devils fans.

That's what was missing on the 2-on-1 break he had! I knew it had to be SOMETHING.

 

[Whaddagoal]

I think people need to adjust their long term expectations with regard to Nico. I don't think he's ever going to be a 70-80 point guy. That's unfortunate given his draft slot but he'll be a consistent 50-60 point player who is good in all areas. Not what you'd want from a first overall but still a crucial piece to the puzzle.

I hope your wrong, but my gut feeling is I think you are right.

Still hoping to see how this season shakes out, but seeing so far, I'm still a little concerned about the injuries he sustained affecting him longer term......

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Bratt the obvious goat, but he responded in the third so I don't want to trash him. Severson had a good game I thought, he was trying to make things happen offensively down 4 goals, which is what you want your dmen to be doing, take chances to try and make the game winnable.

Siegenthaler got embarrassed on the Mangiapane goal, but overall just the fact that Siegenthaller/Subban is a mediocre 3rd pair it appears is so depressing. Subban I don't think is gonna recoup anything at the trade deadline, he's done.

 

[Bleedred]

Bratt the obvious goat, but he responded in the third so I don't want to trash him. Severson had a good game I thought, he was trying to make things happen offensively down 4 goals, which is what you want your dmen to be doing, take chances to try and make the game winnable.

Siegenthaler got embarrassed on the Mangiapane goal, but overall just the fact that Siegenthaller/Subban is a mediocre 3rd pair it appears is so depressing. Subban I don't think is gonna recoup anything at the trade deadline, he's done.

Some team will trade for Subban, just because he's P.K. Subban and that's a pretty big name and he was once a superstar. And it's gonna take another year or maybe even two before his reputation won't help him no more. Even I mistakenly thought it was only 2017 or 2018 when he last won the Norris, but his only Norris was in 2013. He came in third in 2018. His decline is just amazing. I was beating my chest at how much Nashville won the trade in getting him for Weber and for at least 2-3 more years Subban was still a WAYYYY better player, but ironically, Weber has been the better player at least for the last year or two and probably would have still been better this year or if he hadn't had to LTIRe and end his career.

We'd get something for him, but whatever it is, I just hope it's not another USELESS or JAG defenseman that we're either gonna re-sign to a 2 year deal because they're 24 or 25 and still have potential *Cough* Connor Carrick *Cough*. Or someone that has another year left (Dalton Prout) on their deal, that we don't even want or need on the roster.

And Siegenthaler is really looking like another one of the transition guys that we've had on defense for years now. Ever since Shero came in. Most of them we signed in UFA and most of them were older than Siegenthaler, but they all only lasted anywhere from 1-3 years. And I'd be pretty shocked if Siegenthaler is still here in 2 years.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Some team will trade for Subban, just because he's P.K. Subban and that's a pretty big name and he was once a superstar.

I just don't see it anymore, these teams have scouts too and his salary is prohibitive for any team up against the cap (i.e. contenders). A 4th maybe is what I'd hope for, and I think he retires for a media gig after this season. His decline in NJ has been something to behold (though it clearly started in Nashville in retrospect). He's only 32!

 

[Bleedred]

I just don't see it anymore, these teams have scouts too and his salary is prohibitive for any team up against the cap (i.e. contenders). A 4th maybe is what I'd hope for, and I think he retires for a media gig after this season. His decline in NJ has been something to behold (though it clearly started in Nashville in retrospect). He's only 32!

His decline reminds me of Schneider's, just without all the (known) injuries. Both were among the best players at their position until they were 30 years old and BANG! They really fell off. I guess Subban's first decline season was his last year in Nashville, he did drop in points significantly that year, but was still pretty good.

His first year here I thought he was good, but he scored at about an Adam Larsson-like rate. So his game was good, but his scoring was not anywhere near where it had been, or at least it wasn't showing up on the score sheet. And it was bad luck to an extent (because he did even it out by scoring a lot more the next year. Market Correction anybody?), but it was also representative of his skills eroding, if not quite as much as it actually appeared.

His second year here, he picked up the scoring quite a bit. Not nearly to the rate of when he was in Montreal/Nashville, but not too much worse than his last year in Nashville. But the big problem was that the REST of his game was in the shitter. He looked like hell last year and even with the points he was scoring, I'm still not sure it made up for how bad he was elsewhere.

This year, and we're only 5 games in, but this year he still sucks everywhere else like he did last year, he hasn't scored any points yet and he can't even collect or control a puck from the point. It's like watching Anton Volchenkov or Bryce Salvador or Colin White try to hold the zone.

 

[Guttersniped]

Why is McLeod not a choice? There are dudes up there who had good games and he very much did not.

 

[glenwo2]

Bratt the obvious goat, but he responded in the third so I don't want to trash him. Severson had a good game I thought, he was trying to make things happen offensively down 4 goals, which is what you want your dmen to be doing, take chances to try and make the game winnable.

Siegenthaler got embarrassed on the Mangiapane goal, but overall just the fact that Siegenthaller/Subban is a mediocre 3rd pair it appears is so depressing. Subban I don't think is gonna recoup anything at the trade deadline, he's done.

Yeah but he was directly responsible for 2 of the goals given up so...he deserves some trashing.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Yeah but he was directly responsible for 2 of the goals given up so...he deserves some trashing.

My guess is he got his fill in the locker room during the 1st intermission.

 

[Guttersniped]

Bratt played 8:40 of Even Strength hockey and there was a grand total of two shot on goal during that time… and both went in.

There were times during the second period where the net was a gaping hole and Flames were right there and some how missed it.

Everything went wrong in the 1st period & the team melted down & didn’t do anything much offensively. That’s what goaltending implosion will do. Boo hoo. It happens to teams with both their starters out (& I can’t believe someone claimed there’s some sort of level of quality in 3rd string goalies that we failed to live up to by going 1-1-0 with this guys.)

The team was out of sorts in part because Ruff sort of galaxy-brained the lines a bit too much, it reminded me of the Buffalo game last season where Zajac somehow started on the wing.

The Zacha/Tatar with Mercer was quick failure.
The new defensive pairs went really badly, which is way more worrisome to me than the fourth liner people keep fixating on.

 

[BahlDeep]

Siegenthaler sucks

 

[My3Sons]

Siegenthaler sucks

I think the plan with him is that if he doesn't progress much he can be a cheap seventh defenseman and serves as buddy insurance if NJ moves on from Bratt and Zacha.

 

[Bleedred]

I've said it all along. I think Siegenthaler is a transition guy. A younger version of the UFA stop gaps that we've signed since Shero came in, all of whom only lasted anywhere from 1 year to 3 years.

If he's bad this year, he'll probably get next year to be better and might quickly be done away with if he's not. Even if he's just okay over the next two years, I don't see him as being here for 2023-2024.

 

[My3Sons]

I've said it all along. I think Siegenthaler is a transition guy. A younger version of the UFA stop gaps that we've signed since Shero came in, all of whom only lasted anywhere from 1 year to 3 years.

If he's bad this year, he'll probably get next year to be better and might quickly be done away with if he's not. Even if he's just okay over the next two years, I don't see him as being here for 2023-2024.

By then he'll be cheaper than an ELC. I think it will be up to him to some extent but then it might hinge on how well the AHL guys at LD develop.

 

[Bleedred]

By then he'll be cheaper than an ELC. I think it will be up to him to some extent but then it might hinge on how well the AHL guys at LD develop.

He also reminds me of some of our young castaways that weren't here for very long. Jon Merrill, Santini, maybe even Eric Gelinas.

I don't mean in play style necessarily, just that they didn't last long here after it became clear that they weren't anything special.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I certainly don't see Siegenthaler as a long term core member of this team. I just don't see him here long term. I think he'll be muscled out, possibly by in-house replacements within 2 years. And those in-house replacements might not be long term core members of the team either.

 

[JK3]

 

[Devs3cups]

Yeah, I noticed that yesterday too. I think Nico took a risk there down 4-1 to maybe grab the puck and go, but that left Tkachuk wide open. That was actually McLeod's spot initially, but once he goes in the corner chasing the puck, Nico had to take his spot covering the point.

 

[My3Sons]

He also reminds me of some of our young castaways that weren't here for very long. Jon Merrill, Santini, maybe even Eric Gelinas.

I don't mean in play style necessarily, just that they didn't last long here after it became clear that they weren't anything special.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I certainly don't see Siegenthaler as a long term core member of this team. I just don't see him here long term. I think he'll be muscled out, possibly by in-house replacements within 2 years. And those in-house replacements might not be long term core members of the team either.

I don't think he is more than a third pair guy unless he shows some significantly untapped potential. If the AHL guys aren't better than him in two years I could see him hang around as the extra lefty for a year or two if Bratt and Zacha are not around.

 

[Guttersniped]

Some team will trade for Subban, just because he's P.K. Subban and that's a pretty big name and he was once a superstar. And it's gonna take another year or maybe even two before his reputation won't help him no more. Even I mistakenly thought it was only 2017 or 2018 when he last won the Norris, but his only Norris was in 2013. He came in third in 2018. His decline is just amazing. I was beating my chest at how much Nashville won the trade in getting him for Weber and for at least 2-3 more years Subban was still a WAYYYY better player, but ironically, Weber has been the better player at least for the last year or two and probably would have still been better this year or if he hadn't had to LTIRe and end his career.

We'd get something for him, but whatever it is, I just hope it's not another USELESS or JAG defenseman that we're either gonna re-sign to a 2 year deal because they're 24 or 25 and still have potential *Cough* Connor Carrick *Cough*. Or someone that has another year left (Dalton Prout) on their deal, that we don't even want or need on the roster.

And Siegenthaler is really looking like another one of the transition guys that we've had on defense for years now. Ever since Shero came in. Most of them we signed in UFA and most of them were older than Siegenthaler, but they all only lasted anywhere from 1-3 years. And I'd be pretty shocked if Siegenthaler is still here in 2 years.

Nashville could always win trade long term because Weber was held together by duct tape and his contract runs until 2025-26, unless he officially retired and his recapture penalty came looking for them.

Weber’s making 6m this season so he’s not retiring. He makes 3m in salary next season so he’ll presumably want that money too.

Then the contract enters Luongo Land and he makes 1m for last 3 years, while Montreal get hit with a 7.85m cap hit. He’s scouting for the Habs and if he’s sticking around that organization, he’s probably not going to be whacking his club with that big cap hit for the dregs of his 110m contract.

It was hilariously bleak at one point for the Preds, this was how the penalties worked out originally (Weber making 1m in the last three years both make the penalties harsh & increase the likelihood of retirement.)

Sadly, we can’t have fun at their potential Cap Armageddon and the NHL changed the rule so the potential cap hit couldn’t be larger that AAV. The overage is simply pushed back to added years, here’s a chart showing the new potential charges. (I assume this is right, it’s from a random SBNation 2020 article after the CBA changes were announced, but the chart are helpful, so I’m rolling with it.)

So just to be clear, if Weber retires in 2023, Nashville is hit with with 3 years of his full AAV and then gets hit with that bit at the end.

Nashville could hypothetically trade for him and stick him on their LTIR, a potential move that was proposed on the internet for Vancouver & Luongo that did not happen.

CBA changes may ease Shea Weber salary cap penalty fears for Preds—for now

 

[Bleedred]

Nashville could always win trade long term because Weber was held together by duct tape and his contract runs until 2025-26, unless he officially retired and his recapture penalty came looking for them.

Weber’s making 6m this season so he’s not retiring. He makes 3m in salary next season so he’ll presumably want that money too.

Then the contract enters Luongo Land and he makes 1m for last 3 years, while Montreal get hit with a 7.85m cap hit. He’s scouting for the Habs and if he’s sticking around that organization, he’s probably not going to be whacking his club with that big cap hit for the dregs of his 110m contract.

It was hilariously bleak at one point for the Preds, this was how the penalties worked out originally (Weber making 1m in the last three years both make the penalties harsh & increase the likelihood of retirement.)

View attachment 474614

Sadly, we can’t have fun at their potential Cap Armageddon and the NHL changed the rule so the potential cap hit couldn’t be larger that AAV. The overage is simply pushed back to added years, here’s a chart showing the new potential charges. (I assume this is right, it’s from a random SBNation 2020 article after the CBA changes were announced, but the chart are helpful, so I’m rolling with it.)


View attachment 474618

So just to be clear, if Weber retires in 2023, Nashville is hit with with 3 years of his full AAV and then gets hit with that bit at the end.

Nashville could hypothetically trade for him and stick him on their LTIR, a potential move that was proposed on the internet for Vancouver & Luongo that did not happen.

CBA changes may ease Shea Weber salary cap penalty fears for Preds—for now

I still think Nashville wins the trade because they unloaded Weber's deal, AND they got rid of Subban before his contract became a problem/he really started to decline. They seemed to get rid of him right in the nick of time.

 

[My3Sons]

I still think Nashville wins the trade because they unloaded Weber's deal, AND they got rid of Subban before his contract became a problem/he really started to decline. They seemed to get rid of him right in the nick of time.

Branch Rickey is smiling somewhere

 

[Oneiro]

Would much rather focus on how Zacha might be becoming the player his defenders say he is. Looks so much more confident with the puck on his stick.

Love Bratt but he’s been over complicating the hell out of things all year which is the opposite of what a cerebral player does. Kind of my worry with Jack too but he was getting goals despite bad games. Shots are nice but are we not gonna weight the degree of catastrophic errors over the course of a year?

Most worried about Shara but this league has had a lot of one and done seasons…

Again only five games but I can’t say this team has played well thus far.

 

[Barry Tallackson]

Our three wins are weak… barely beat a winless Blackhawk team, come back win against the sabres, crappy expansion team Kraken