The 2019-20 Around the League Thread, Pt. II

[StreetHawk]

Good riddance. I think his lackluster apology where he refused to acknowledge Akim Aliu by name, and even address the violence allegations from Michal Jordan, were the death knell for him. People can change and I think - for the most part - deserve second chances. But the lack of contrition, true acknowledgement of wrong doing and pledge that he is a different person who has learned from his mistakes were absent throughout this whole process.

Hopefully he takes the time to reflect on the kind of person he has been and decides to change.

Probably on the advice of his legal counsel. People may not like it, but that's the prudent thing to do if you expect a potential legal battle for the remainder of the contract.

Whether Peters issues apologies to Aliu/Jordan in the future, will show what kind of person he is.

But, now the NHL and teams have to be keenly aware that something might come up with someone on their staff. Likely not something racist, but physical/psychological abuse. This happened a decade ago, not in the 80' or 90's, or the turn of the millennium.

Peters will have to meet with the NHL later and they will hand down a suspension. Be interesting to see how they handle that in terms of what he is being suspended for? Just the Aliu matter? Or will it include the Jordan issue as well. Because we've heard Crawford do something similar. Both issues were considered handled in house by the teams. But, Karmanos, the owner of the Canes at the time now says he would have fired Peters if the matter was brought to his attention. This would set a precedent, as the NHL may have to suspend other coaches if the Jordan issue is included. And if the Jordan matter isn't included, the NHL will have to explain why it was not.

 

[Melvin]

Probably on the advice of his legal counsel. People may not like it, but that's the prudent thing to do if you expect a potential legal battle for the remainder of the contract.

Whether Peters issues apologies to Aliu/Jordan in the future, will show what kind of person he is.

But, now the NHL and teams have to be keenly aware that something might come up with someone on their staff. Likely not something racist, but physical/psychological abuse. This happened a decade ago, not in the 80' or 90's, or the turn of the millennium.

Peters will have to meet with the NHL later and they will hand down a suspension. Be interesting to see how they handle that in terms of what he is being suspended for? Just the Aliu matter? Or will it include the Jordan issue as well. Because we've heard Crawford do something similar. Both issues were considered handled in house by the teams. But, Karmanos, the owner of the Canes at the time now says he would have fired Peters if the matter was brought to his attention. This would set a precedent, as the NHL may have to suspend other coaches if the Jordan issue is included. And if the Jordan matter isn't included, the NHL will have to explain why it was not.

I think the prudent thing to do is to not release any statement, if that's your goal. That statement served no potential to benefit him in any tangible way.

I am going to go out on a limb and predict that the Flames have relieved him of his duties, but are not seeking to terminate his contract. I think his pretty meagre salary is probably not worth the ugliness of some legal battle. But we will find out.

 

[PG Canuck]

Some people are offended/upset that Peters wasn't fired sooner. This world.

 

[tantalum]

Flames are saying Peters provided a letter of resignation. That would seem to mean the flames won’t be paying him anything beyond some clause that might have been in the contract. It would also indicate there was enough stuff found in the investigation that Peters had to go this route to avoid even more coming out.

 

[sting101]

Comparing not liking music that offended you to directing a racial slur toward a black person is a jaw-dropping false equivalency.

And we know the facts. Peters has admitted it and two teammates have confirmed it on the record.

And when you're saying 'hurt his feelings' you clearly don't get it. This isn't saying 'I don't like you because you wear ugly clothes' and Aliu is having a pout about it. This is about a society where black people were still getting lynched and had to use separate washrooms 50 years ago, and having zero tolerance for racist *******s who perpetuate that ugliness with the word that most symbolizes it. And for black people, it's blind rage that this is still happening and not 'hurt feelings'. Everybody knows you can't say that word and everyone has known this for a very long time. If I tell a black person to 'turn that n***** music off' in my workplace, I'll be fired on the spot. As would pretty much everyone else. You can't do it and you don't do it.

Agree and i agree my takes were bad and have said as much. I got info on this in a manner it appeared to be somewhat fishy by Aliu. Anson Carter, Brind Amour Peters all had statements that left some questions regarding the validity of the story and whether apologies had been made and matters were dealt with. Nothing excuses Peters making racist comments but i did and still do feel its a big difference between using the N word in a rant vs using it directed at someone. I really didnt like Ansons quotes re Akim and after looking at his 22 teams in 10yrs it set me off that perhaps this is a guy with attitude issues and his story was financially motivated rather than truthful about being hurt. I funnelled those thoughts into an attack on Akim and i was wrong to do so. Bottom line is Peters was wrong and my position was wrong. If Akim was playing the music Peters didnt like he should have just asked him to turn it off politely
End of story.
Im trying to learn here too because im old school. Im in my in my 40s and my coaches and teachers did things that would have half them fired today. Where i grew up i lived with a mix of races and my friends are a united nations and we slander and poke fun at each other all the time like brothers and no one gets offended, we just laugh. I realize things are different today and i have a hard time with the sensitivity because of my background. Im trying to evolve. Anyway im not commenting further on this. I am truly sorry if anyone here has been a victim of these types of hurtful things and i upset them with my attck on Aliu it was wrong

 

[mathonwy]

Most people should probably refrain from discussing certain subjects and certainly ones that they do not understand.

Far too many fine lines being walked imo

Ya know...

I'm of two minds on this.

In a voice conversation, your point should absolutely be taken to heart. Don't say ignorant crap about topics like this one. Listen and learn.

In a medium like HFBoards though, people should be able to put forth their opinions on topics like this as long as they do their best to explain WHY they think the way they do and be OPEN to possibly re-evaluating their stances based on NEW information (and that includes me for sure).

This is part of reason why the HFBoards Canucks community is so awesome.

On the whole, we're a pretty reasonable and rational community full of smart Canuck fans.

Especially when it comes to seeing through the BS ownership has been trying to peddle to the fanbase over the last 5 years.

 

[mathonwy]

Agree and i agree my takes were bad and have said as much. I got info on this in a manner it appeared to be somewhat fishy by Aliu. Anson Carter, Brind Amour Peters all had statements that left some questions regarding the validity of the story and whether apologies had been made and matters were dealt with. Nothing excuses Peters making racist comments but i did and still do feel its a big difference between using the N word in a rant vs using it directed at someone. I really didnt like Ansons quotes re Akim and after looking at his 22 teams in 10yrs it set me off that perhaps this is a guy with attitude issues and his story was financially motivated rather than truthful about being hurt. I funnelled those thoughts into an attack on Akim and i was wrong to do so. Bottom line is Peters was wrong and my position was wrong. If Akim was playing the music Peters didnt like he should have just asked him to turn it off politely
End of story.
Im trying to learn here too because im old school. Im in my in my 40s and my coaches and teachers did things that would have half them fired today. Where i grew up i lived with a mix of races and my friends are a united nations and we slander and poke fun at each other all the time like brothers and no one gets offended, we just laugh. I realize things are different today and i have a hard time with the sensitivity because of my background. Im trying to evolve. Anyway im not commenting further on this. I am truly sorry if anyone here has been a victim of these types of hurtful things and i upset them with my attck on Aliu it was wrong

Don't sweat it yo.

We're all friends here.

This is a really tough topic that involves a whole lot of sociological psychological stuff that is way beyond hockey.

 

[F A N]

I think the prudent thing to do is to not release any statement, if that's your goal. That statement served no potential to benefit him in any tangible way.

I take the same position. His letter of apology served to confirm that he did use the N word in front of Aliu which without further evidence it more likely than not happened in the way that Aliu recalls. His letter also added that he immediately returned to the room and apologized, which contradicted what Aliu tweeted and if not true can be easily refuted unless Peters by himself went to an empty room and apologized to the room.

 

[Hit the post]

We're all friends here.

meh, you're just one millimeter away from *my list*.

 

[StreetHawk]

Flames are saying Peters provided a letter of resignation. That would seem to mean the flames won’t be paying him anything beyond some clause that might have been in the contract. It would also indicate there was enough stuff found in the investigation that Peters had to go this route to avoid even more coming out.

I would not bet on that.

More likely than not, there is a settlement involved. On the condition he provides a resignation letter, the Flames agree to pay him some portion of his remaining $3.4 million.

Benefit to the Flames are that it keeps the Flames off the record officially from having taken action against him. With the other stuff that was brought out, keeps the Flames from having to officially say why they fired/terminated him.

 

[F A N]

If the players came out supporting their coach and he wasn't fired, what do you think happens? People move onto other things to be upset about. I don't mean to be flippant about the issue, but that's what happens.

Then, he would inevitably be fired within a couple years because that's what happens to coaches anyway.

You are asking what would happen if the players came out to support Peters and he wasn't fired? Umm... there would be a similar level of outrage as we have been seeing and hearing over the past few days? Kylington would be asked how he would feel if his head coach did that to him in front of other players. Would he still support the coach? Does he feel he was in a safe and supportive environment? Iginla would be asked to respond if that happened to him while he was the captain of the Calgary Flames.

Eventually people move onto other things but in the short term they won't. The media would continue to hound them, a big section of fans would be upset or exhibit anger, businesses might not want to associate with the Flames for now. All this because hey let the players make the decision? It's not like employing Addessa who uttered a racial slur (now) 30 years ago and seemingly in the context of motivating the two black players on his team. Addessa had one of those black players coming out in support of Addessa and saying they talked about it and work things out 30 minutes after. Addessa was also out of sight and out of mind. According to Aliu, Peters never apologized but repeated what he said and they was instrumental in him being demoted to the ECHL.

 

[StreetHawk]

I take the same position. His letter of apology served to confirm that he did use the N word in front of Aliu which without further evidence it more likely than not happened in the way that Aliu recalls. His letter also added that he immediately returned to the room and apologized, which contradicted what Aliu tweeted and if not true can be easily refuted unless Peters by himself went to an empty room and apologized to the room.

It is odd that his lawyers would allow that part into the letter unless they could verify that he actually apologized in front of the other people.

 

[mathonwy]

meh, you're just one millimeter away from *my list*.

That's you on the left.

 

[timw33]

I would not bet on that.

More likely than not, there is a settlement involved. On the condition he provides a resignation letter, the Flames agree to pay him some portion of his remaining $3.4 million.

Benefit to the Flames are that it keeps the Flames off the record officially from having taken action against him. With the other stuff that was brought out, keeps the Flames from having to officially say why they fired/terminated him.

This is 100% a rug sweep with a settlement and iron clad release to minimize further damage and blowback on both sides.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Ya know...

I'm of two minds on this.

In a voice conversation, your point should absolutely be taken to heart. Don't say ignorant crap about topics like this one. Listen and learn.

In a medium like HFBoards though, people should be able to put forth their opinions on topics like this as long as they do their best to explain WHY they think the way they do and be OPEN to possibly re-evaluating their stances based on NEW information (and that includes me for sure).

This is part of reason why the HFBoards Canucks community is so awesome.

On the whole, we're a pretty reasonable and rational community full of smart Canuck fans.

Especially when it comes to seeing through the BS ownership has been trying to peddle to the fanbase over the last 5 years.

I have many doubts that most of the posts I am reading are stated with the underlying contexts you mentioned.

 

[F A N]

It is odd that his lawyers would allow that part into the letter unless they could verify that he actually apologized in front of the other people.

I think it's likely that his lawyers verified that with Peters. If Peters was paying top dollar for his lawyer's services then his lawyers probably did go out and verified with at least a former player who was in the room that Peters did in fact return to the room to apologize. Otherwise, the lawyers are more likely drafting a letter based on what Peters is saying and even taking Peters' instructions as to what to include and what not to include. There's always the PR side and the legal side. Ultimately, Peters make the decisions.

 

[F A N]

I would not bet on that.

More likely than not, there is a settlement involved. On the condition he provides a resignation letter, the Flames agree to pay him some portion of his remaining $3.4 million.

Benefit to the Flames are that it keeps the Flames off the record officially from having taken action against him. With the other stuff that was brought out, keeps the Flames from having to officially say why they fired/terminated him.

Yep. This is what I predicted before as the ideal scenario.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think it's likely that his lawyers verified that with Peters. If Peters was paying top dollar for his lawyer's services then his lawyers probably did go out and verified with at least a former player who was in the room that Peters did in fact return to the room to apologize. Otherwise, the lawyers are more likely drafting a letter based on what Peters is saying and even taking Peters' instructions as to what to include and what not to include. There's always the PR side and the legal side. Ultimately, Peters make the decisions.

The lawyers would advise him that given what has been made public, that he needs a witness on his side to verify his apology claims. Otherwise, it makes the situation much worse. Ultimately, up to Peters to do what he wants, whether to listen to his lawyers are not.

 

[Melvin]

Thought I'd revisit my simulator in the interest of talking about something else for awhile.

Arizona continues to win the Pacific in my sims. Their schedule eased up in November but they've been just sorta okay, going 4-4 in regulation including two losses to Minnesota. The Oilers are getting difficult to ignore although they too have been just sort of okay in November despite continuing to benefit from a pretty soft schedule.

We know about the Canucks. Their 3-7 regulation record in November has taken them out of the running in terms of how often they win the division in my sims but they interestingly still make the playoffs around 60% of the time. Interestingly while a lot has been made of the schedule, it wasn't actually that tough in November, and giving up 10 goals in 2 games against the Stars, a relatively poor offensive club, was an especially bad result.

Vegas too had a very poor November, going 3-6 in regulation despite also having a pretty easy schedule, as they lost games to both the Red Wings and the Kings.

This division is really looking like a turtle derby so far. Six of the 8 teams have double-digit regulation losses, compared to just one in the central. Even San Jose's recent "hot streak" has mostly been OT-fueled, as they've so far gone 5-0 in stupid time this month. Otherwise their 4-4 regulation record is no better than Arizona's.

Is Calgary going to eventually take over after recovering from the Peters fiasco? They miss the playoffs about 95% of the time but it will be interesting to see how they respond to the recent stuff.

 

[stampedingviking]

I think bonding rituals, pranks, elevating challenges are vital for personal and team growth.

Why?

 

[Hansen]

Beating the every loving f*** out of anyone who tries to hurt or take advantage of your teammates on the ice is vital for personal and team growth

Doesn't need any of the hazing bullshit to go with it; you're teammates, support each other.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

ok now that it's all over and it's probably the case that we'll never know what the full story is, with peters resigning and probably getting some behind the scenes payout to sign a waiver and ndc, and aliu seeming to be muzzled by the league, i want to speculate about what this situation really was, which i've bitten my lip on up to now.

i think what is probably not in question is that bill peters is a toxic pos. he uses the n word, he doubles down, he hits players, he hides behind his position as coach to do all of these things you shouldn't do to people.

i also think the apology that went out yesterday, addressed to the flames with no mention of aliu or any reflection or taking of real responsibility, tells us everything about what was going through his mind in that closed door meeting and him subsequently sending aliu to the ECHL.

but it's not clear how he used the n-word. like, clearly it was in reference to rap music and aliu was involved. but did he say n-word music as in music made by n-words, or did he say it like, i'm sick of these songs where i keep hearing the n-word and guys threatning to verb each other in noun? both are very bad, but still it's a very large difference in degrees of bad there.

and also, was aliu the only one always playing rap music? from what i've read, that's not certain. like were there a bunch of guys listening to rap music? i mean, not every guy on an AHL team in 2009 is a nickelback fan right? and so is it specifically directed at aliu, or directed at a group of players, or maybe all of the players?

obviously, even in the second scenario you still don't say that with aliu in the room. and given how much of a toxic pos he is, and that aliu is a guy who will push back, which peters doesn't sound like the kind of person who reacts to that in a mature way, it almost certainly still is a way of calling aliu that word without calling him that word. but again, degrees of how directly and how targetedly he is singling out aliu there are in question even though, realistically, even if it was about rap music he is probably using rap music as a pretext to single out aliu, however indirectly.

every scenario above isn't just fireable, there is flat out no keeping your job in any of those scenarios in 2019. but i do wish we knew.

 

[timw33]

Makar's release is nuts.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Just makes you wonder what the likes of Mike Keenan and Torts used to do and say behind the scenes. I wonder if this will start a domino effect...

 

[Hit the post]

Just makes you wonder what the likes of Mike Keenan and Torts used to do and say behind the scenes. I wonder if this will start a domino effect...

Why mention Torts with Keenan? Torts was overally emotional yes but he cared about his players by & large. To Keenan, even his own players were just pawns to be sacrificed when needed (or even not needed to be sacrificed in order to exercise his power).