The 2019-20 Around the League Thread, Pt. II

[vanuck]

What is he a victim of though? What are the facts?

It's important to extract the truth of this situation. Obviously he was offended and he says it hurt his feelings but did he even direct anything at Akim other than a rant about his music that clearly offended Peters in his workplace. Does any of that matter? Does Peters have any rights to a workplace without N words sodomy and Hoes being exploited in a Rap from a loud speaker?

Until we know the facts Aliu is a POTENTIAL victim not a victim. Its a very important distinction and in a any court of law and in society his motives and character will be questioned.

He was a victim of whatever "it" was you were referring to, for which the onus was on Aliu to address "it" (as written in your original post). Simple as that. That's the victim blaming we were talking about.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

What is he a victim of though? What are the facts?

It's important to extract the truth of this situation. Obviously he was offended and he says it hurt his feelings but did he even direct anything at Akim other than a rant about his music that clearly offended Peters in his workplace. Does any of that matter? Does Peters have any rights to a workplace without N words sodomy and Hoes being exploited in a Rap from a loud speaker?

Until we know the facts Aliu is a POTENTIAL victim not a victim. Its a very important distinction and in a any court of law and in society his motives and character will be questioned.

I've been lurking waiting for someone to post this, and here it is. you are a truly vile person

 

[Intangibos]

What is he a victim of though? What are the facts?

It's important to extract the truth of this situation. Obviously he was offended and he says it hurt his feelings but did he even direct anything at Akim other than a rant about his music that clearly offended Peters in his workplace. Does any of that matter? Does Peters have any rights to a workplace without N words sodomy and Hoes being exploited in a Rap from a loud speaker?

Until we know the facts Aliu is a POTENTIAL victim not a victim. Its a very important distinction and in a any court of law and in society his motives and character will be questioned.

It's not unreasonable to tell someone to shut up and turn off the music if it disturbs people. I think we would all be annoyed if some guy sitting near us at work was blasting music we hated. Dropping racial slurs though when you're telling them to shut up is over the line. I still think there is a difference between using the N-word generally speaking and explicitly calling someone the N-word, context does matter. Still though Peters should have known better.

I don't think he's necessarily as bad as people say here, I find a lot of the politics on HF to consist of a lot of outrage and anger as y0u can see above this post, but I don't think he's innocent either.

 

[Three On Zero]

I was this earlier today and it made me laugh

 

[sting101]

deleted

 

[sting101]

deleted

 

[Pip]

Weird thread right now. We got people who smugly talk down to others and mock hockey players getting all sensitive about feelings.

You were given the ability to communicate use it. If you dont like something leave or speak up its that simple. Nobody has a legal right to detain you or tape your mouth shut. If your not ambulatory ask for help.

There is zero odds of a year with multiple layers of coaches managers fans teammates and advisaries in a competitive environment is gonna take place without someone doing or saying something you dont like or may take offense to. Learn how to effectively deal with it.
Aliu was bad at hockey why is this surfacing so many years later? He's not looking for monetary compensation is he?

And why is it that Akim or anyone for that matter would play music celebrating derogatory and racial slurs and sodomy but when confronted with distaste of it would lack the awareness the rap could be offensive to people of all colours and races? Did he ever offer an explanation for that?
Was there a front story i missed where Aliu asked Peters the other coaches and the other players if it was what they wanted to hear and if his actions were all good? Raps about Ns and Hoes and sodomy...i mean some people get offended...my Mom would get really really upset. Last time i checked the room its Peters place of employment as well does he have any rights to his work environment? Peters rant appears to be completely off side but how come Aliu has such offense now to the words that he somewhat initiated by the music he was playing and Peters did offer an apology after his tirade and admitted he acted and spoke out of emotion for what its worth. Like i get that as a coach he should be held to a higher standard and what he said was wrong. Just seems odd.
Im sure there's more to it.

This is a bad take man and defending racist is a terrible look. You should stop while you’re behind

 

[Pip]

feel free to educate me?

crickets?? yes just what i expected.....you are a coward

And i find your name calling extremely offensive.

Unbelievable that you would be "waiting and lurking" instead of contributing anything of value to a discussion board and then come off and call me a vile person without any context at all.

You suck becasue you know nothing about me and now you make a summary and judgement of me that is extremely hurtful. oh well i believe in due process and innocent until proven guilty.

The bolded rings hollow given what you’ve said in this thread. That you chose thus hill to die on says a lot about you. There have already been other people confirming this story I’m not sure what you are waiting for. Even worse, you’ve set up a bunch of excuses, blaming the victim in many cases and justifying Peter’s behaviour. It’s honestly disgusting.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

I don't like rap either @sting101 I'm in my sixties, it clearly isn't for me. I prefer jazz, classic r&b, rock or just about anything (love the bossa nova) else but I can't start ranting about n****** every time I hear it either. I'd be kicked out just about any doctor's office, pharmacy, elevator I've stood in for the past several years if I did. I need to know better than that and so did Bill Peters. You may hear the word n***** come out of that loud speaker 175 times but repeat it yourself and be prepared to suffer serious consequences. This is one of the ways to be erased.

I know it sucks, but the kids seem to like it this way

 

[sting101]

Anson Carter " i spoke to him (akim) a couple years ago about getting back into the league (NHL) and he kep pushing me "help a brother out help a brother out" i said listen i'm not just gonna play a race card to help a black player because your a black player i felt helping good players...you know what i'm saying? So i kind of wish he would have told me this back then because i would have brought it to the right peoples attention at the time. And its more i dont know if hurtful is the right word...more shocked because i have talked to coach Peters several times on the phone and he's been nothing but professional with me. I am shocked that these kinds of words would have came out of his mouth. I am really shocked."

So vilify me if you like but this ^^ and the Peters statement and Brind Amour comments about it being dealt with were all i had read along with Alius statement prior to posting tonight.I have since read the Seravelli story Sids comments and Burkes comments.

I retract and delete my posts from before as my initial reactions due to the content that i had at that point were suspicious of alterior motives. My apologies to anyone offended by me making a counter argument and supporting peters in any way. I still believe he deserves to have his deliberation to reveal all the factors related to the sitution but i also now realize that he did indeed make those racial comments and under no circumstance is that acceptable.

so for all of you that called me out. You were right and i was wrong. i acted like a fool running my flaps without all the facts.

Apologies Sting

 

[Hammer79]

I don't like rap either @sting101 I'm in my sixties, it clearly isn't for me. I prefer jazz, classic r&b, rock or just about anything (love the bossa nova) else but I can't start ranting about n****** every time I hear it either. I'd be kicked out just about any doctor's office, pharmacy, elevator I've stood in for the past several years if I did. I need to know better than that and so did Bill Peters. You may hear the word n***** come out of that loud speaker 175 times but repeat it yourself and be prepared to suffer serious consequences. This is one of the ways to be erased.

I know it sucks, but the kids seem to like it this way

In rap, they aren't saying the hard 'er' ending to the N word, they are ending it with a 'gah' sound. That's a big difference, because it's really just a slang word for 'guy' or 'buddy' in the black community. You won't find African Americans calling each other the hard 'er' ending version of the N word unless one is insulting the other.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

In rap, they aren't saying the hard 'er' ending to the N word, they are ending it with a 'gah' sound. That's a big difference, because it's really just a slang word for 'guy' or 'buddy' in the black community. You won't find African Americans calling each other the hard 'er' ending version of the N word unless one is insulting the other.

Well, that's something new then. I know back in the early seventies in the heyday of blaxploitation cinema they certainly did not soften the ending in that way and they constantly called reach other that word. I think it goes back a lot farther than that too, though I can't say for sure.

Talk about some cool movies with some great musical soundtracks though, that was it.

 

[Intangibos]

Well this conversation looks like it might get a little bit tense. Let me start off by clarifying something with other posters here so we can try to find some common ground.

Do you think there is a difference between saying the word, or calling someone the word. For example if you heard your kid saying the N-word, is there a difference between getting upset and using the word explicitly ("DID YOU JUST SAY N*****?") and actually calling a black person one?

Obviously there is more to the situation, that's not what Peters did, but would the first one really be racist? If so, wouldn't telling someone to turn off the music with the "n-word this n-word that" be closer to being insensitive and unnecessary, as he doesn't have to say it when people may get offended and reasonably so, rather than full-blown racist?

 

[tyhee]

Obviously what Peters did in the past was awful and I'm sure nobody condones it.

That said, in terms of the specific issue of whether or not should he should be fired I think it ultimately comes back to the players in the leadership group of the Flames to make that decision. If the players decide they still want him as coach then they should state that and move forward. If they don't, he should be let go.

I don't think opinions outside of that group really matter - it is a case where given the situation the players should be the ones empowered to make the decision or at least the majority of the decision.

I just don't see this making any sense at all. What gives the players the right to choose their bosses?

 

[m9]

I just don't see this making any sense at all. What gives the players the right to choose their bosses?

It's a unique situation, but ultimately their opinion matters the most.

 

[Upoil]

Well this conversation looks like it might get a little bit tense. Let me start off by clarifying something with other posters here so we can try to find some common ground.

Do you think there is a difference between saying the word, or calling someone the word. For example if you heard your kid saying the N-word, is there a difference between getting upset and using the word explicitly ("DID YOU JUST SAY N*****?") and actually calling a black person one?

Obviously there is more to the situation, that's not what Peters did, but would the first one really be racist? If so, wouldn't telling someone to turn off the music with the "n-word this n-word that" be closer to being insensitive and unnecessary, as he doesn't have to say it when people may get offended and reasonably so, rather than full-blown racist?

There is a philosophical concept called the use-mention distinction which I have always found very interesting. Essentially there is a big difference between mentioning a word versus actually using a word.

However, with the cultural and societal background we have surrounding this particular word it is just easier to avoid any mention or use. I feel like most people get this and the ones that don't are really ignorant or actually racist. Either way - not a good look.

 

[Intangibos]

There is a philosophical concept called the use-mention distinction which I have always found very interesting. Essentially there is a big difference between mentioning a word versus actually using a word.

However, with the cultural and societal background we have surrounding this particular word it is just easier to avoid any mention or use. I feel like most people get this and the ones that don't are really ignorant or actually racist. Either way - not a good look.

Yeah, I absolutely 100% agree.. What he did wasn't okay. It was ignorant of the reality of the word and that ignorance can also come from racism. It's just it doesn't only come from racism. Racial insensitivity is a whole other thing.

I think addressing these issues and solving these types of situations would be much easier if we could speak openly about how to even classify these incidents. As soon as it comes out that he said the N-word it's like everyone is treated it as if he was calling the player that which is so much worse than what actually happened (not that what happened isn't bad).

 

[tantalum]

Hopefully the firing becomes official soon so we can stop talking about this POS. A POS who can’t even bring himself to write a proper fake apology.

Not stop talking about the issue which is likely pervasive in professional sports but talking about this one POS.

 

[The Poacher]

And there goes Bill Peters. Who will be the new coach of the Lames?

 

[StreetHawk]

And there goes Bill Peters. Who will be the new coach of the Lames?

Right now the networks are saying "fired". Whether that is with cause or not we will find out during their press conference at 9:30am PST. If they are saying it is for cause, then we have not heard the last of Peters as he will attempt to get the remainder of his contract.

I do hope that all sports teams now create or update their procedures/policies to handle conduct unbecoming of an employee (executive, coach, player, employee). How do people report it and who makes the decisions on how it gets handled.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Good riddance. I think his lackluster apology where he refused to acknowledge Akim Aliu by name, and even address the violence allegations from Michal Jordan, were the death knell for him. People can change and I think - for the most part - deserve second chances. But the lack of contrition, true acknowledgement of wrong doing and pledge that he is a different person who has learned from his mistakes were absent throughout this whole process.

Hopefully he takes the time to reflect on the kind of person he has been and decides to change.

 

[sting101]

MODS Please delete all of my content in the last few pages. Thx

 

[MS]

What is he a victim of though? What are the facts?

It's important to extract the truth of this situation. Obviously he was offended and he says it hurt his feelings but did he even direct anything at Akim other than a rant about his music that clearly offended Peters in his workplace. Does any of that matter? Does Peters have any rights to a workplace without N words sodomy and Hoes being exploited in a Rap from a loud speaker?

Until we know the facts Aliu is a POTENTIAL victim not a victim. Its a very important distinction.

Comparing not liking music that offended you to directing a racial slur toward a black person is a jaw-dropping false equivalency.

And we know the facts. Peters has admitted it and two teammates have confirmed it on the record.

And when you're saying 'hurt his feelings' you clearly don't get it. This isn't saying 'I don't like you because you wear ugly clothes' and Aliu is having a pout about it. This is about a society where black people were still getting lynched and had to use separate washrooms 50 years ago, and having zero tolerance for racist assholes who perpetuate that ugliness with the word that most symbolizes it. And for black people, it's blind rage that this is still happening and not 'hurt feelings'. Everybody knows you can't say that word and everyone has known this for a very long time. If I tell a black person to 'turn that n***** music off' in my workplace, I'll be fired on the spot. As would pretty much everyone else. You can't do it and you don't do it.

 

[Melvin]

Yeah, I absolutely 100% agree.. What he did wasn't okay. It was ignorant of the reality of the word and that ignorance can also come from racism. It's just it doesn't only come from racism. Racial insensitivity is a whole other thing.

I think addressing these issues and solving these types of situations would be much easier if we could speak openly about how to even classify these incidents. As soon as it comes out that he said the N-word it's like everyone is treated it as if he was calling the player that which is so much worse than what actually happened (not that what happened isn't bad).

I understand what you are saying and I agree with it in principle, but I also think we can acknowledge that this particular word is a special case due to its very recent associations with a very ugly part of our history, and as such it maybe falls outside of that paradigm at least for now, such that this distinction is not one that is actually meaningful.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Most people should probably refrain from discussing certain subjects and certainly ones that they do not understand.

Far too many fine lines being walked imo