OT: The 2014-2015 Boston Celtics/NBA Thread

[KrejciMVP]

The reason that rebuild was so long was because we never stockpiled picks. And even worse, we traded some of them away (Billups and Joe Johnson). The only reason the rebuild ended was because we got. We didn't rebuild the right way.

And right now, we should be trading Rondo and Green (although I understand if nobody wants him) and even Sully and Bradley for more picks. Rondo is a complete waste of an asset if he stays any longer. We have to turn him into draft picks and do things the right way.

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The celtics laid the foundation for the rebuild last night with a solid PG pick. I agree, trade some the starters we have now (Rondo, Green, Bradley) and go for the lottery again. If we can get another Paul Pierce and KG type player in the next 2 lotteries we will be set up well for the next decade.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

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The celtics laid the foundation for the rebuild last night with a solid PG pick. I agree, trade some the starters we have now (Rondo, Green, Bradley) and go for the lottery again. If we can get another Paul Pierce and KG type player in the next 2 lotteries we will be set up well for the next decade.

Haha, and there's the folly of the NBA. (If we can hit on two HOF players in our next 2 lotteries, we'll be set up!)

 

[LSCII]

The reason that rebuild was so long was because we never stockpiled picks. And even worse, we traded some of them away (Billups and Joe Johnson). The only reason the rebuild ended was because we got lucky. We didn't rebuild the right way.

And right now, we should be trading Rondo and Green (although I understand if nobody wants him) and even Sully and Bradley for more picks. Rondo is a complete waste of an asset if he stays any longer. We have to turn him into draft picks and do things the right way.

They didn't turn it around by luck. They turned it around by amassing picks and young prospects and then flipping them for actual NBA players that had an impact. That's exactly what they needed to do here, but didn't. They have plenty of young guys already, and they have plenty of picks when you include the haul they got from NJ and from LA. They don't need more. They need to move out those picks and youth and get established NBA talent otherwise all the gains they made when they brought in KG and Ray goes away, and this team fades back into obscurity.

 

[LSCII]

Lonnie, the Bruins probably have 3 more strong years before they become Ottawa, when that happens these Celtics kids will be ready to be good and become the number one winter team in the city. Enjoy the Bruins for a few years then go Green!

That's great in theory, but not so much in practice. The only way your scenario works out is if they hit on all their picks. We have no clue right now if they did or not, or will hit next year and beyond as well. In 3 years, they could have just as easily missed than hit too. Remember the last rebuild? It went from 1993 to 2007. That's 14 ****ing years, and what got them back wasn't youth, but veteran NBA players they traded the youth for. So to me, that's hardly a 3 year rebuild.

 

[LSCII]

Could be worse, you could be a fan of one of the 22 NBA teams that hasn't won a championship in the last 30 years, or one of the 7 that have never even made a finals. Worst competitive balance in professional sports by far.

I get what you're saying but it comes off as accepting mediocrity to me. We're not one of those teams that hasn't won. We're not a franchise and a fan base that is okay with just being in the league. We should be championship driven, but right now it doesn't appear they're even playoff driven.

 

[LSCII]

Haha, and there's the folly of the NBA. (If we can hit on two HOF players in our next 2 lotteries, we'll be set up!)

HA! Yeah, all it takes is for them to identify 2 HoF players in a sea of 19 year olds who have all of one year playing college ball. Pretty simple, no?

 

[DKH]

That's great in theory, but not so much in practice. The only way your scenario works out is if they hit on all their picks. We have no clue right now if they did or not, or will hit next year and beyond as well. In 3 years, they could have just as easily missed than hit too. Remember the last rebuild? It went from 1993 to 2007. That's 14 ****ing years, and what got them back wasn't youth, but veteran NBA players they traded the youth for. So to me, that's hardly a 3 year rebuild.

I wanted Vonleh there - they are in a tough spot. Vonleh can play the 4 which is hard to find and you don't have redundancy at PG. wait are we in agreement?

 

[MTaylorJ1]

I get what you're saying but it comes off as accepting mediocrity to me. We're not one of those teams that hasn't won. We're not a franchise and a fan base that is okay with just being in the league. We should be championship driven, but right now it doesn't appear they're even playoff driven.

Haha, I hate the NBA. I'm not accepting of anything. What I'm saying is that you can be championship driven all you please, but in reality, I think it's going to be a harder sell for Boston (or any other team outside of NY, LA, Chicago) that isn't in a city with no state taxes and nice weather.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

That's great in theory, but not so much in practice. The only way your scenario works out is if they hit on all their picks. We have no clue right now if they did or not, or will hit next year and beyond as well. In 3 years, they could have just as easily missed than hit too. Remember the last rebuild? It went from 1993 to 2007. That's 14 ****ing years, and what got them back wasn't youth, but veteran NBA players they traded the youth for. So to me, that's hardly a 3 year rebuild.

You don't have to hit on all your picks if you have 12-15 first round picks over the next 5 years. We already have 9. Should've added (still can I guess) 1 or 2 for Rondo. I doubt Jeff Green could get a pick, but I'm sure Sully or Bradley can and then there are way to buy picks by taking on bad contracts (especially with our trade exception).

From 93 to 07, we only had multiple picks in the same first round 3 times. But two of those times, we got Chauncey Billups and Joe Johnson, who we traded away during their first year, so those barely count. The other time was in 04 when we got Big Al at 14 and Delonte West at 24 (so not even high picks, but still, we did pick up the most important asset used to get KG).

We didn't even try a proper rebuild in the 90's. So the fact that it was so slow isn't really relevant. You want another 14 year rebuild? Trade our picks for a guy who won't even win, like Kevin Love.

 

[Absurdity]

For what it's worth, I really liked our two picks last night.

 

[LSCII]

You don't have to hit on all your picks if you have 12-15 first round picks over the next 5 years. We already have 9. Should've added (still can I guess) 1 or 2 for Rondo. I doubt Jeff Green could get a pick, but I'm sure Sully or Bradley can and then there are way to buy picks by taking on bad contracts (especially with our trade exception).

From 93 to 07, we only had multiple picks in the same first round 3 times. But two of those times, we got Chauncey Billups and Joe Johnson, who we traded away during their first year, so those barely count. The other time was in 04 when we got Big Al at 14 and Delonte West at 24 (so not even high picks, but still, we did pick up the most important asset used to get KG).

We didn't even try a proper rebuild in the 90's. So the fact that it was so slow isn't really relevant. You want another 14 year rebuild? Trade our picks for a guy who won't even win, like Kevin Love.

Do you know what it means if you have 15 first round picks over the next 5 years? It means your team sucks. Like colossally bad. Besides that, you cannot realistically handle 3 first round picks two years running, let alone five years running. There aren't that many roster spots available, FFS...

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

Do you know what it means if you have 15 first round picks over the next 5 years? It means your team sucks. Like colossally bad. Besides that, you cannot realistically handle 3 first round picks two years running, let alone five years running. There aren't that many roster spots available, FFS...

You don't have to be bad to have a lot of picks. And like you said, not all the picks are going to work out. Realistically, by the time the 2018 draft rolls around, one of Young and Smart will be on another team, if not, out of the league (and if not, both of them). Same thing for next year's Clippers pick. But they all have a chance to be all stars, so the more the better. We're not running out of roster spots though. We barely have any guys who can contribute to a championship team to fill them right now.

 

[PB37]

That's great in theory, but not so much in practice. The only way your scenario works out is if they hit on all their picks. We have no clue right now if they did or not, or will hit next year and beyond as well. In 3 years, they could have just as easily missed than hit too. Remember the last rebuild? It went from 1993 to 2007. That's 14 ****ing years, and what got them back wasn't youth, but veteran NBA players they traded the youth for. So to me, that's hardly a 3 year rebuild.

We actually had some good teams with Pierce/Walker in their primes... we made it to the ECF one year and deep into the second round the next. The problem was the Celtics made some bad trades and drafted poorly ( or traded the good players they drafted ). That 4 year run could have been better if they managed their assets better; instead, they just milked whatever they could get from Walker/Pierce's talents and called it a day.

 

[LSCII]

You don't have to be bad to have a lot of picks. And like you said, not all the picks are going to work out. Realistically, by the time the 2018 draft rolls around, one of Young and Smart will be on another team, if not, out of the league (and if not, both of them). Same thing for next year's Clippers pick. But they all have a chance to be all stars, so the more the better. We're not running out of roster spots though. We barely have any guys who can contribute to a championship team to fill them right now.

You don't have to be bad to have a lot of picks, but you do have to be bad for them to get you the type of players that will turn things around. Couple that with the fact that if you have a roster filled with first and second year players, and you're not going to be good.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

You don't have to be bad to have a lot of picks, but you do have to be bad for them to get you the type of players that will turn things around. Couple that with the fact that if you have a roster filled with first and second year players, and you're not going to be good.

Well, we're already a bad team. There's no other way to become a championship caliber team without riding it out. So how does keeping Rondo help? What's he doing here?

 

[YoungSinatra]

Do you guys expect a Rondo trade?

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Do you guys expect a Rondo trade?

If we aren't looking like a top 3-4 Eastern Conference team than he won't stay past the deadline. If we look good he probably stays and we take the risk he leaves us when he opts out. Smart is insurance. We have 3 good guards who can all bring the ball up the court and AB and Smart are more 2's than 1s.

 

[LSCII]

Well, we're already a bad team. There's no other way to become a championship caliber team without riding it out. So how does keeping Rondo help? What's he doing here?

I don't actually want to keep Rondo, nor do I believe the Celts want to as well. I also wasn't a fan of the amount it seemingly would take to get an unsigned Love. I think I'm frustrated because all off season we've heard how they were going to make some major moves and right the ship. Shake things up, big things are going to happen. We're going to have an off season of major impact. We're going to see fireworks. You know, all that nonsense Grousbec spouted in the papers and on the radio. Then a couple of days leading up to the draft you hear these whispers about maybe having to do a rebuild via the draft over multiple years, and then last night you see an underwhelming night of nothing. They made two picks. And they still have a million more picks in the next few years. How is it truly possible that you weren't able to leverage that slew of picks into actual NBA talent today? To me, last night feels like a failure. Not a slight on the guys they drafted, just that everything the organization said and did leading up to it contradicted their actions last night. If you're going to commit to a rebuild where the draft is your only option, don't sell your fanbase on empty promises. Just come out and say no free agents want to come here because it's a cold weather city, and nobody is interested in moving their players for futures unless you have a slotted pick that will return an impact player/future all star type.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

I don't actually want to keep Rondo, nor do I believe the Celts want to as well. I also wasn't a fan of the amount it seemingly would take to get an unsigned Love. I think I'm frustrated because all off season we've heard how they were going to make some major moves and right the ship. Shake things up, big things are going to happen. We're going to have an off season of major impact. We're going to see fireworks. You know, all that nonsense Grousbec spouted in the papers and on the radio. Then a couple of days leading up to the draft you hear these whispers about maybe having to do a rebuild via the draft over multiple years, and then last night you see an underwhelming night of nothing. They made two picks. And they still have a million more picks in the next few years. How is it truly possible that you weren't able to leverage that slew of picks into actual NBA talent today? To me, last night feels like a failure. Not a slight on the guys they drafted, just that everything the organization said and did leading up to it contradicted their actions last night. If you're going to commit to a rebuild where the draft is your only option, don't sell your fanbase on empty promises. Just come out and say no free agents want to come here because it's a cold weather city, and nobody is interested in moving their players for futures unless you have a slotted pick that will return an impact player/future all star type.

Dude there are only 10-20 legit NBA starters or 6th men in each draft. We got 2 of them.


Of the good players half are projects nowhere close right now. Of the 8-9 guys who will make impacts in the league we got maybe the only 2 perimeter players who are ready right now.

So remember this is a legendary 1st round. Of best wings and guards lets look at the others: Parker and Wiggens are 1-2. Exum hasn't played real ball. Lavine went 10 and was miles away from being a big time player at UCLA he sort of sucked. Stauskus has to get way stronger the step up in competition might be too much for him. Elfrid Peyton is too skinny and came out of nowhere with little pedigree. TJ Warren didn't win too much at NC St. And Tyler Ennis went right after we got Young and was our other choice if you want to dump Rondo. Hes not what we need though and Im a big Syracuse fan.



Those are the top guys who aren't bigs along with Mahcus Smaht and James Young.

Smart, Young, Parker, Wiggins, Exum, Lavine, Stauskus, Peyton, Warren, Ennis.

There is your 10 best guards and wings. Exum, Lavine, Peyton, and Ennis would have little chance of making an impact right away on our team. An Aussie unknown, UCLA's worst player, and 2 point guards with size issues. Parker and Wiggens went 1 and 2 and aren't perfect. We could have got Stauskus but Warren was gone at 17.



I don;t know if you follow college basketball but the 2 of the top 10 guys we got are the 2 who are the best scorers RIGHT NOW in this draft class and also probably have the highest ceilieng in terms of all star games outside Jabari. I don't think Wiggens gets there I think hes close his entire career but not a star. Smart is better offensively at attacking the rim right now than Wiggens. Young is a tall guy who can get his shot off and can take it to the rim.


Really nice to come away with 2 scorers. Smart is probably a better player right noww than a 33 year old injured Dwayne Wade.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

The Bulls also had to give up a ton to get Dougie McBuckets at 11. 16 and 19 is a lot to move up 5 spots. So you really can't demand we get a better player than Young.


Smart- last year a top 5 pick and only good player other than MCW if he comes out and he went back to school to bulk up.

Young- Played in National Championship game as a freshman and has a style and pull up shot similar to Paul Peirce.

 

[LSCII]

Dude there are only 10-20 legit NBA starters or 6th men in each draft. We got 2 of them.


Of the good players half are projects nowhere close right now. Of the 8-9 guys who will make impacts in the league we got maybe the only 2 perimeter players who are ready right now.

So remember this is a legendary 1st round. Of best wings and guards lets look at the others: Parker and Wiggens are 1-2. Exum hasn't played real ball. Lavine went 10 and was miles away from being a big time player at UCLA he sort of sucked. Stauskus has to get way stronger the step up in competition might be too much for him. Elfrid Peyton is too skinny and came out of nowhere with little pedigree. TJ Warren didn't win too much at NC St. And Tyler Ennis went right after we got Young and was our other choice if you want to dump Rondo. Hes not what we need though and Im a big Syracuse fan.



Those are the top guys who aren't bigs along with Mahcus Smaht and James Young.

Smart, Young, Parker, Wiggins, Exum, Lavine, Stauskus, Peyton, Warren, Ennis.

There is your 10 best guards and wings. Exum, Lavine, Peyton, and Ennis would have little chance of making an impact right away on our team. An Aussie unknown, UCLA's worst player, and 2 point guards with size issues. Parker and Wiggens went 1 and 2 and aren't perfect. We could have got Stauskus but Warren was gone at 17.



I don;t know if you follow basketball but the 2 of the top 10 guys we got are the 2 who are the best scorers RIGHT NOW in this draft class and also probably have the highest ceilieng in terms of all star games outside Jabari. I don't think Wiggens gets there I think hes close his entire career but not a star. Smart is better offensively at attacking the rim right now than Wiggens. Young is a tall guy who can get his shot off and can take it to the rim.


Really nice to come away with 2 scorers. Smart is probably a better player right noww than a 33 year old injured Dwayne Wade.

I get it. I also get the excitement and hope teams and fans have with their draft picks. You see the a small sample of games, and their highlight packages, and hear the experts offer their analysis, and people always come away thinking they got a steal. It's human nature. It falls apart when you fast forward to them actually playing against real NBA talent, and you see what you really have. Point is, nobody knows. Otherwise, every team would hit on every pick, every year.

I've been clear in my posts about not having anything against the guys they drafted. I'm more angry at the team's owners and front office for pretty much saying they were going to do something big. I mean how do you buy them taking two players and calling it a steal when the team's GM has been saying for the better part of a year that this draft actually sucks, and that none of the guys in it are really NBA elite players? How do you go from that to feeling great about them making the picks and then spinning it how things broke right for them?

 

[KrejciMVP]

I`ve just accepted that the Celtics are going to suck the next few years while they rebuild through the draft. I like what BrainOfJ said. If you`re not first in the NBA, you are last. No point hovering around the 8th seed and getting mediocre draft picks.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

I get it. I also get the excitement and hope teams and fans have with their draft picks. You see the a small sample of games, and their highlight packages, and hear the experts offer their analysis, and people always come away thinking they got a steal. It's human nature. It falls apart when you fast forward to them actually playing against real NBA talent, and you see what you really have. Point is, nobody knows. Otherwise, every team would hit on every pick, every year.

I've been clear in my posts about not having anything against the guys they drafted. I'm more angry at the team's owners and front office for pretty much saying they were going to do something big. I mean how do you buy them taking two players and calling it a steal when the team's GM has been saying for the better part of a year that this draft actually sucks, and that none of the guys in it are really NBA elite players? How do you go from that to feeling great about them making the picks and then spinning it how things broke right for them?

Thats what they should spin.

We didn't want people to think we wanted the polished guard who returned for his second year and should be viewed as a SG who can play some 1 like Randle is a PF who can play some 3. Make it sound like him and Rondo won't fit.

The problem franchises in the NBA were picking before us. Its good one bit on us being in love with Gordon.

Pumped Vonleh and Gordon's tires.


Got lucky with Young falling.

I think we'd have taken the Bosnian center Denver took with 16 actually. Or Saric if he fell. Smart to help right away and one of those few guys if they fell to 17 (Bosnian center, Young, Saric, Stauskus, Warren.)

 

[Shaun]

if they are building through the draft then they should have traded rondo last night for a high pick. no point in keeping him and having him walk as a FA.

 

[LSCII]

if they are building through the draft then they should have traded rondo last night for a high pick. no point in keeping him and having him walk as a FA.

That is exactly right. If you're going to make those picks and go with youth, then go with it and embrace it. Instead, my fear is that they want to half build through the draft and half through trades/augmenting their core of today. Either one is fine, but don't try to sit on the fence between both. Nothing good will come from that.