Post-Game Talk: Thats all she wrote.

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

i don't know where i stand on the "Andy was Tired" debate.
i can see both sides. but then i have to go by what Andy said - which was he wasn't tired, and then look how he played when he had a break (not good). though i also know he had a LOT more work (ontop of the workload) so maybe it's mental tired, not physical tired.

there's gonna be a lot of tinkering being done. it will be interesting to see

I think his results speak for themselves. his play in the postseason was not good enough, and saying it's a fatigue issue is giving him the benefit of the doubt. We have to rule it out anyway in order to evaluate how effective he can actually be for us when it matters

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think his results speak for themselves. his play in the postseason was not good enough, and saying it's a fatigue issue is giving him the benefit of the doubt. We have to rule it out anyway in order to evaluate how effective he can actually be for us when it matters

well yah but you could also say it was because he was just bad., right?
i'm trying to think about Fleury and Hank. i know for a time they got rode into the ground - but i am trying to think if the turn around happened because they adjusted - or because they played less. not really sure.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

well yah but you could also say it was because he was just bad., right?
i'm trying to think about Fleury and Hank. i know for a time they got rode into the ground - but i am trying to think if the turn around happened because they adjusted - or because they played less. not really sure.

I personally don't think he's a goalie you can win with, but it's important to know for sure

 

[Mikeyg]

Man, things really need to change for us. I’ve been harping on the guy all year, but its really time to hold egocock accountable for his bs. Its just unacceptable that this guy hasn’t once loaded a top 6 or done different things with our core over the past two years. Hes sucked the energy and passion right out of our young guys and has them scared to make mistakes. Then at the same time, the vets get away with murder and get loads of playing time. How has jvr never played with matthews? How has marner never been on the same pp as Matthews? Why does it take 1.5 years to rotate plugs out of the top 6???? Ego is killing our team.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I personally don't think he's a goalie you can win with, but it's important to know for sure

i have to say this, with kinda of a "meh"
because you can say that with a butt load of anyone - until they actually win. people can say this is low-hanging fruit all they want but Osgoode and Niemi won cups. you can say "look at the team" but I'll always counter it's a team thing if the goalie ain't good (enough), then the people in front have to step up (and vice versa)

my feelings on Fred hasn't changed. I think personally he was identified as a goalie to be stable enough to support the younger players etc and give management a proper evaluation of the team. I think he has done that in the last 2 years. What doesn'thelp him is that the team is actually a lot better faster than people have thought, which is more expectations for him to be better, faster (because again this is his only 2nd year as the bonefide starter no iffs ands or buts).

i feel when it's time to make this decision,we'll make it, (it also sucks we don't have a lot of grade a goalie depth. I have to trust people who think Sparks is okay but Noodles has zero faith in our goalies in theminors and i tend to trust him coz that was his job - goalie coaching). anyhoo. i think if we are better up front this buys Freddy a goal or two. (he still has that muffin aspect to his game, saw it all the time in Anahiem). and that could be all that's needed.

 

[IPS]

The stretch pass fixation is a problem there. I don't know why we insist on it, since it doesn't seem to have been very effective. At least use it only as alternative to a more free-flowing, passing-based breakout scheme.

Because that's how Babcock did in Detroit and that's how he wants it done in Toronto.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

i have to say this, with kinda of a "meh"
because you can say that with a butt load of anyone - until they actually win. people can say this is low-hanging fruit all they want but Osgoode and Niemi won cups. you can say "look at the team" but I'll always counter it's a team thing if the goalie ain't good (enough), then the people in front have to step up (and vice versa)

my feelings on Fred hasn't changed. I think personally he was identified as a goalie to be stable enough to support the younger players etc and give management a proper evaluation of the team. I think he has done that in the last 2 years. What doesn'thelp him is that the team is actually a lot better faster than people have thought, which is more expectations for him to be better, faster (because again this is his only 2nd year as the bonefide starter no iffs ands or buts).

i feel when it's time to make this decision,we'll make it, (it also sucks we don't have a lot of grade a goalie depth. I have to trust people who think Sparks is okay but Noodles has zero faith in our goalies in theminors and i tend to trust him coz that was his job - goalie coaching). anyhoo. i think if we are better up front this buys Freddy a goal or two. (he still has that muffin aspect to his game, saw it all the time in Anahiem). and that could be all that's needed.

personally i think Sparks might surprise people. Being the best goalie in a league like this AHL has to count for something, although it's obviously no guarantee.

As for Freddy, it's too hard to say. His inconsistency and tendency to let in weak goals at bad times makes it very hard

 

[Kiwi]

Because that's how Babcock did in Detroit and that's how he wants it done in Toronto.

The issue is only three defenseman on the entire team can make any sort of decent pass let alone a stretch pass, three of them class "puck off the glass and out" as passing

 

[hockeyes]

I'm really enjoying the well thought out obituaries being made now that the dust has settled a bit.

I tend to agree most with those pointing out Babcocks flaws. He seems more concerned with forcing the players into being what he wants them to be rather than adjusting to what he has available. It's very unfortunate because he will be here for years yet no matter what happens. If the core for the next 10 years is Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly+ he needs to focus on what works for them and not what his hypothetical dream team would play like.

 

[TML11]

I watched the 3rd period again this morning and I think I have a theory. I know, opinions are like *******s, everyone has one, but I haven't heard much talk about this, so I'm going to put it out there.

We had seemingly figured out how to shut down the Bruins offence in the last few games, and it was obviously working in the last half of the 2nd period. The adjustment that we seemed to have made (that was working so effectively) was that we were clogging up the middle of the ice, keeping the play to the outside along the boards, and blocking shots. If you look back at game 6 (arguably our best game defensively against the Bruins top line), we blocked almost two times more shots than the Bruins did against us. Without the powerplay, the Bruins were not beating us. 5 v 5 we were controlling the chances and capitalizing on when the Bruins started taking chances pinching to get better chances in our zone, especially against the Marleau-Pleks-Marner line, which lead to some odd man rushes and goals.

So...we were employing this strategy well at the end of that period and it was on the Bruins to adjust in that third period or season is over. And you can call me crazy thinking this was an intentional strategy that Cassidy employed, but I think it was. How do you adjust to our d-zone strategy? You can't get shots through, you can't get the puck into the center of the ice for good scoring chances because there were too many bodies clogging up the middle. Notice my emphasis. How do you decrease the number of bodies in the zone. How about...putting one of them in the box? Even better, how about two of them in the box? After all, those bodies didn't necessarily need to be Leaf bodies. You need more space? How about reducing the number of player on the ice from 10 to 8?

18:54 3rd period - Krecji roughing on Zach Hyman
18:54 3rd period - Zach Hyman roughing on David Krejci
4 on 4 - 2 minutes

18:50 3rd period - Goal Torey Krug

16:19 3rd period - Rick Nash cross checking against Tyler Bozak
16:19 3rd period - Tyler Bozak interference on Rick Nash
4 on 4 - 2 minutes

14:35 3rd period - Goal Jake DeBrusk

Krug has one of the better slapshots in the league. Problem for him is, he wasn't getting them through. If you watch that replay, that shot was clear and true. So much space, no bodies. You could argue Anderson should have saved it, but guys with big shots on clean one timers tend to score, even on the best goalies. Plus there was a bit of a screen.

The DeBrusk goal, space played a major role. There was just more room to move, and Gards got caught, and there was no-one to back him up. Again, blame Anderson, but the point I'm making is that 5 on 5, DeBrusk doesn't even get that much space and time.

The sad part of this observation (which actually Plekanec brought up if you listen to his post game, the 4 on 4 shift in play) was that Babcock didn't adjust. I'll give him that first one, but the second is inexcusable. Plekanec should not be out there 4 on 4. Gardiner should not be out there 4 on 4. You brilliant defensive strategy that was working in the 2nd period goes out the window 4 on 4. In that scenario, you need to go down the sheet and look at possession numbers for the first two periods, and look for a combination of four guys who have been successful in possession (at least for the 2 minutes of 4 on 4).

If you wanted to know, top 2 defender CF% for last nights game were (in order): Dermott (75%), and Reilly (55.9%). Top forwards: Bozak(61.1%) and Kadri (60.7). Hyman and Matthews were on the upper end as well. Worst players: Plekanec (22.2%), Zaitsev (31.0%) with Gardiner near 50% (which for a guy whose bread and butter is possession, is low).

Knowing this, who goes over the boards 4 on 4? From my eyes, obviously Reilly and Dermott and Kadri. Not Gardiner and Zaitsev and Plekanec. Which reveals Babcock's blind spot. His stubbornness to adjust and move away from his "guys". Heck, the only reason we are in this series is because the Gods of fate kept taking away guys from him, forcing him to adjust. No Komarov, play Johnsson, get better. No Kadri, play Plekanec more 5 on 5 against Boston top line, get better. No Reilly at the end of the 1st period due to puck in face, play Dermott, Dermott scores. The fact that Gardiner played DOUBLE the number of minutes then Travis Dermott this game makes me want to puke. Especially after Gardiner was clearly having the worst game of his career. The fact that Kapanen almost single handedly wills the team to victory, SHORT handed with hustle and determination, and plays 8:42 ****ing minutes makes me want to fire Babcock out of a cannon to the sun.

So, long story long, Cassidy adjusted, Babcock didn't. Call me crazy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he mentioned in the 2nd intermission a few words about getting physical and trying to draw some of the Leafs players into match penalties to create more space for the Bruins to work their magic. Seems like a stretch, but could be brilliance masked as coincidence. Like I said after game 1 about Kadri's retaliation against Wingels. This is how Boston wins. Bait and switch. Goon squad with skill.

You are right on many many points.

the other thing I noticed in the 3rd period to help your argument was the number of icings the Bruins made. Each icing helped rest their players, get reorganized, and lull the Leafs into a sense of security, same as in 2013. I don't care who is out there on D, I really don't. It's FUNDAMENTAL hockey that you clear along the boards and get that puck out of the zone. These are professional players, I have no idea why it is so difficult year after year for the SAME players on the D for the Leafs. At least Polak can dish out some hits and move bodies, same with Reilly, but the others can at the very least GET RID OF THE PUCK! Kapanen needed to play more. WHY in the world would you keep a guy with that speed, intensity, and fight on the bench in GAME 7?!?!?!

 

[TML11]

and it should be said that Gardiner was the only player who spoke to media and owned his mistake. where was Matthews?

 

[Suntouchable13]

I am just thinking today "too bad, would have been a great series against TB". Oh well.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

and it should be said that Gardiner was the only player who spoke to media and owned his mistake. where was Matthews?

He spoke to the media as well and said he should have been better

 

[danron1376]

and it should be said that Gardiner was the only player who spoke to media and owned his mistake. where was Matthews?

on the leafs youtube channel they have interviews of some of the players after the game - freddy, kadri, matthews, maleau and gardiner

 

[hector morrison]

Game 7 ...the goalie lets in 3 goals in the 1st period, don't care how,why,who,what ...no way that goalie plays the 2nd period!!! Another bad call by Babs. I think he has a lot to offer as a coach,however he doesn't appear to learn from his mistakes....which is what asks his players to do!
If Hyman(great effort) is Matthews starting winger next season,it will be difficult to watch.
If Freddy has confidence or nerve issues then he has to go! Game 7...lets in 6 goals!!!

 

[Apotheosis]

I'm really enjoying the well thought out obituaries being made now that the dust has settled a bit.

I tend to agree most with those pointing out Babcocks flaws. He seems more concerned with forcing the players into being what he wants them to be rather than adjusting to what he has available. It's very unfortunate because he will be here for years yet no matter what happens. If the core for the next 10 years is Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Rielly+ he needs to focus on what works for them and not what his hypothetical dream team would play like.

No matter his power, if he has another first round exit next year, he'll probably get fired. A guy paid that much, for three straight first round exits with an elite core can't be trusted.

 

[Daisy Jane]

No matter his power, if he has another first round exit next year, he'll probably get fired. A guy paid that much, for three straight first round exits with an elite core can't be trusted.

Mike Babcock is not going to get fired if we lose in the 1st round next year. seriously, dude..
last year we weren't expected to even make the playoffs.
this year regardless of how we are feeling was a wash.

 

[Apotheosis]

ugh. i hate that. that reminds me of Reimer and Bernier. you weren't good enough in the 1st and 3rd,dude, it's okay people will be grumpy, but accept it.


It just hit me too. this is the deepest (for a while) our forwards will be. and there is gonna be a lot of transition. We could easily miss the playoffs next year or not be as fire-power-works as the last two years. this was such a missed opportunity to get some more experience and make a little bit more hay with the sunshine we got.

I actually think technically, next year will be the deepest they'll be. Every team gets weaker once their stars need to get paid post ELC. Even when you factor in Nylander's contract, no Komarov and full year's (that are on their ELC) of Kapanen and Johnsson make the team even deeper. Likely more steps forward for the big 3 (we saw a glimpse this year with Marner dominating and Matthews being above PPG) etc. Next year is the year (assuming more moves are made and we have a good draft) that for me, there will be expectations. If there is another first round exit, I won't hold back on Babcock slander.

 

[Apotheosis]

Mike Babcock is not going to get fired if we lose in the 1st round next year. seriously, dude..
last year we weren't expected to even make the playoffs.
this year regardless of how we are feeling was a wash.

How can you feasibly defend THREE straight first round exits? It's not even just a trend here. He's had more first round exits in his coaching career than conference finals appearances.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I actually think technically, next year will be the deepest they'll be. Every team gets weaker once their stars need to get paid post ELC. Even when you factor in Nylander's contract, no Komarov and full year's (that are on their ELC) of Kapanen and Johnsson make the team even deeper. Likely more steps forward for the big 3 (we saw a glimpse this year with Marner dominating and Matthews being above PPG) etc. Next year is the year (assuming more moves are made and we have a good draft) that for me, there will be expectations. If there is another first round exit, I won't hold back on Babcock slander.

so basically, if i am reading you correctly
you are going to Slander babcock for doing something no other coach for 15 years was capable of doing (that is getting the leafs to the playoffs 3 years in a row) - one of those years was after the Leafs finished dead last. because the team lost. Okay there.

again. babcock is not getting fired next year regardless of what happens with the leafs.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Mike Babcock is not going to get fired if we lose in the 1st round next year. seriously, dude..
last year we weren't expected to even make the playoffs.
this year regardless of how we are feeling was a wash.

not expected by whom? I expected the playoffs last year

 

[Daisy Jane]

How can you feasibly defend THREE straight first round exits? It's not even just a trend here. He's had more first round exits in his coaching career than conference finals appearances.

easy.
one year he took a bunch of rookies to the playoffs
second year he got a bunch of sophmores to game seven.
whatever happens next should they lose, happened. if it was a veteran team you have a case. we don't. you don't.

 

[Daisy Jane]

not expected by whom? I expected the playoffs last year

i would reckon management if you read what they said.
all i am saying is - i wouldn't expect Babcock to get fired next year is all. the only likihood that happens if Q is available. and I don't even think they do that (I mean it could happen and I love Q so whatever). but i don't think they are gonna fire a coach in year 5 with the majority of the team still being moulded etc.

now. if Shanahan feels it's go time (and i don't know if that's next year or not we'll see howthe team looks like in August), then of course that changes. as it stands. no.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

i would reckon management if you read what they said.
all i am saying is - i wouldn't expect Babcock to get fired next year is all. the only likihood that happens if Q is available. and I don't even think they do that (I mean it could happen and I love Q so whatever). but i don't think they are gonna fire a coach in year 5 with the majority of the team still being moulded etc.

now. if Shanahan feels it's go time (and i don't know if that's next year or not we'll see howthe team looks like in August), then of course that changes. as it stands. no.

5 years with a coach is longer than you think
I think it depends on how we lose though. if Babcock can't fix some of the glaring errors in his system and it costs us, I wouldn't be opposed to trying a new coach.

What it comes down to isn't the quality of coach, but the fit. If he insists on imposing a system that doesn't work for the personnel that we have rather than changing his system to suit our team, he's the wrong fit

 

[Superstar]

Game 7 ...the goalie lets in 3 goals in the 1st period, don't care how,why,who,what ...no way that goalie plays the 2nd period!!! Another bad call by Babs. I think he has a lot to offer as a coach,however he doesn't appear to learn from his mistakes....which is what asks his players to do!
If Hyman(great effort) is Matthews starting winger next season,it will be difficult to watch.
If Freddy has confidence or nerve issues then he has to go! Game 7...lets in 6 goals!!!

It was a 1 goal game after the 1st period, not a 3-0 game. Andersen helped bring the team to where they were last night...no coach in his right mind would pull him down only by 1 goal going into the 2nd period. Andersen is still our starter for the next few years...he is as important to this team as some of our core guys.