Post-Game Talk: Thats all she wrote.

[Zybalto]

I'm not trying to start any kind of war here but this is still bugging me a bit.

I love the fact Rielly played his best game in game 7 but he was quite underwhelming this series and I think we really need to get someone to play with him for next year. Should be our #1 priority. Like I said in another thread, why are we patting him on the back for not having a good series? It could be that Hainsey is that much of an anchor but this stat stands out to me the most. He was the worst defender at defending scoring chances out of anyone in the playoffs. Hainsey actually had better numbers away from Rielly when Babs mixed up the d-pairs. If you try to calculate scoring chances allowed per minute or some such stat that eliminates workload bias, he was the worst defender in the entire playoffs for scoring chances. Thats not good....and its been masked by Anderson making insane saves (almost every one of Andersons crazy stops had Rielly on the ice) and was the one defender the Leaf forwards actually scored some goals for to give him some points.

Maybe it was the combination of having to go against one of the best lines in the league + Hainsey + some kind of outlier like bad forward help when he was on the ice (I wasnt as big a fan of Pleks as some around here either this series) . Whatever it was, the bizarre overrating of his play this playoffs isnt going to help address what seemed an obvious problem.

Not hating on Rielly, just noticing the contradiction is all. His regular season numbers were great and not resting Hainsey down the stretch contributed to the first pairings extended tire fire sessions throughout the series but it seems like not some but most observers are blissfully ignoring reality.

 

[Daisy Jane]

5 years with a coach is longer than you think
I think it depends on how we lose though. if Babcock can't fix some of the glaring errors in his system and it costs us, I wouldn't be opposed to trying a new coach.

What it comes down to isn't the quality of coach, but the fit. If he insists on imposing a system that doesn't work for the personnel that we have rather than changing his system to suit our team, he's the wrong fit

True. however i am thinking about it this way.
Five years ago (my time has flown by). Babcock goes blah blah 'stand by me when time is bad, i was assured yes blah bah blah.' Now I being part of team ruthless, wouldn't care if you had a good coach coming up. but if you play the "rebuild" card -regardless of what we thought etc just optically.

year one they tore it down, year two they only did what 3 other teams did in history (make the playoffs after being dead last), year three they broke franchise records, year four ________/1st round exit again.

now unless it's like you said (and it's VERY obvious) the fit is not there that's one thing
but if it's just "we lost in the first round" but everything is still improving then it looks like it's a oh we're not winning, turf the coach.

and if it's like was being said (because he can't get out of the first round) well ya know, Trotz can't get out of the 2nd, and Boudreau can't get win a game seven at home (or at all). Q has his issues, and if people want to play the "get a new coach" well we're gonna have to see him cut his teeth in Toronto and it might not be pretty either. AND if if that's the card that's being played - people could look at it as "people not being patient because rebuild card" just saying.

I said during the year the year babcock will probably be "let go" would be the year after should it come to that.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Our defensemen aren't perfect, but seeing what Vegas can do with inferior defensemen makes me think there are other problems here

 

[BlueBaron]

Our defensemen aren't perfect, but seeing what Vegas can do with inferior defensemen makes me think there are other problems here

I don't suppose it has occurred to you their top 6 probably is not inferior?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I don't suppose it has occurred to you their top 6 probably is not inferior?

it is

 

[BlueBaron]

it is

So no it hasn't....that could be your problem. Rielly would be their number one but after that they are probably deeper than we are.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So no it hasn't....that could be your problem. Rielly would be their number one but after that they are probably deeper than we are.

if they can build a better defensive core than ours with random castoffs, then we have bigger problems

 

[BlueBaron]

if they can build a better defensive core than ours with random castoffs, then we have bigger problems

Yeah hard to imagine a team who got to pick from the 4-6 D on 30 teams having deep bottom pairings if you ignore how obvious it is that it would be a strength.

 

[SnizzNasty88]

Our defensemen aren't perfect, but seeing what Vegas can do with inferior defensemen makes me think there are other problems here

Vegas’ defensemen are nowhere near inferior. Actually, they’re quite better. Shea Theodore is a young stud, Colin Miller is another good player, Nate Schmidt same thing, and guys like Brayden McNabb and Deryk Engelland, these are guys that are built for playoff hockey and guys you win with. Our defensemen don’t even come close to being able to play intense playoff hockey. VGK has diesels on their back end and we do not it’s that simple. The D on our team needs to be significantly upgraded or else we are going nowhere.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Yeah hard to imagine a team who got to pick from the 4-6 D on 30 teams having deep bottom pairings if you ignore how obvious it is that it would be a strength.

a collection of 4-6 defensemen still shouldn't be better than our group. that isn't that great

 

[BlueBaron]

a collection of 4-6 defensemen still shouldn't be better than our group. that isn't that great

You're right, we should be stronger at the top than we are but you also know we have not had many opportunities to do that since the rebuild started. Dermott is the first D to bloom since the rebuild started, the trade market has only had a couple guys almost all cost too much and then did not perform.

It's not pretty but it's not an easy fix either.

 

[fahad203]

I have never been so disappointed in a player as I was on Matthews. You can say he's injured, but it wasn't the skill, it was the drive. Unless he was injured, there was no excuse for that kind of showing, or lack of not showing

Gardiner is who he is. It's time to move on from him
Hainsey was overused and way over his head

Kadri was a no show last 2 games. He's been a let down
Andersen, man..... just make the save you are supposed to. Goal against Krug was horrible and so was the goal for DeBrusk. Those are stoppable

Matthews was too soft, no fight in him. Only thing generational about him was his interviews

 

[Liminality]

a collection of 4-6 defensemen still shouldn't be better than our group. that isn't that great

I think you're underestimating how good they are as a group defensively. They may be not the most top end guys but they all have their roles and are competent in their own zone. They're all relatively big guys who can move the puck.

Schmidt always had good possession numbers in Washington but he wasn't given a chance against higher competition until now, same with McNabb who also had really good possession numbers in LA but was facing lower quality. Schmit a puck mover and McNabb a more rugged dman and they seem to work well together.
Theadore was always pretty highly touted by the Ducks but they didn't have room for him, good offensively and decent enough defensively against lower players. Miller is another good offensive puck mover but their pairings seem to compliment each other so well.

Englland...I don't know how he's doing so well.

I think everyone going into the expansion draft expected their D and goaltending to do relatively well but their offense to suffer a lot, their offense should definitely not be as good as they are.
They did their best research for this and it worked out so well for them.

 

[DanM]

If Vegas wins the cup, I am going to not watch hockey again lol (I am kidding) but man the Leafs organization...

 

[Apotheosis]

so basically, if i am reading you correctly
you are going to Slander babcock for doing something no other coach for 15 years was capable of doing (that is getting the leafs to the playoffs 3 years in a row) - one of those years was after the Leafs finished dead last. because the team lost. Okay there.

again. babcock is not getting fired next year regardless of what happens with the leafs.

I wouldn't stand for it. I'm all for supporting personnel, but his flaws are out there now. And he has always had star laden teams. He walked in to an organization with franchise players waiting for him essentially. 5 years with a coach is longer than you think. Three first round exits in a row is the same regardless of the context.

 

[DanM]

You're right, we should be stronger at the top than we are but you also know we have not had many opportunities to do that since the rebuild started. Dermott is the first D to bloom since the rebuild started, the trade market has only had a couple guys almost all cost too much and then did not perform.

It's not pretty but it's not an easy fix either.

Yeah, we just had terrible drafting and management for decades to be honest. We see Dermott, and we have some potential in prospects (plus Lily of course) but in my opinion we never had a real plan in place before the last few years. The cap era just made it even worse as we had zero idea how to draft, develop, and scout players that would be young and controllable, and the farm was sad.

Hopefully those days are behind us, and things keep progressing.

 

[ballofhate13]

I have never been so disappointed in a player as I was on Matthews. You can say he's injured, but it wasn't the skill, it was the drive. Unless he was injured, there was no excuse for that kind of showing, or lack of not showing

Gardiner is who he is. It's time to move on from him
Hainsey was overused and way over his head

Kadri was a no show last 2 games. He's been a let down
Andersen, man..... just make the save you are supposed to. Goal against Krug was horrible and so was the goal for DeBrusk. Those are stoppable

Matthews was too soft, no fight in him. Only thing generational about him was his interviews

I am not sure of his health honestly. But his off the cuff comments came across as what ever man. That to me stood out.

 

[DanM]

I am not sure of his health honestly. But his off the cuff comments came across as what ever man. That to me stood out.

I think it was injuries and the fact he was facing two of the top defensive players of the last 25 years on every shift.

What concerned me was his body language and comments, I wonder if he is truly made for this market, I mean he came from a place where people probably didn't know what a puck was for a long time lol

He always seems dismissive and or extremely agitated, like every second under a microscope is the worst day of his life.

Not that I ever want to see this, or that it will happen (as he talks highly of Toronto) but I could see him looking at a Tampa, Arizona, California, Nashville type location when he is able. He seems like he wants to play hockey and be left alone.

I hope I am wrong, but I don't see this guy being a Leaf past his next contract (again I am probably 99 percent wrong, but something in my gut says it)

 

[Faltorvo]

OK, i know i confuse easy BUT

8 total combined PPs in Toronto

29 in Boston

UMMM huh???? WTF????????????

 

[Walshy7]

OK, i know i confuse easy BUT

8 total combined PPs in Toronto

29 in Boston

UMMM huh???? WTF????????????

I heard on the radio (maybe overdrive cant remember) its because the crowd is so vocal in Boston, I thought the ACC was just as good in the playoffs I don't buy that.

The officiating in Toronto were running the let them play system, while in boston they seemed to call everything. That's hard to read for all players. Seemed like Boston were getting calls leafs players weren't. SEEMED like I don't want to be a refs screwed us guy but they seemed to be getting every call

 

[highslot]

He cost you big time early in the series. He was fine in the last 2 games.

he only looked fine because everyone was focused on gardiner's gaffs in game 7. poor clearing and breakout passes in our zone overall, the difference was that it didn't cost as much as gards bad judgement.

 

[Trapper]

So no it hasn't....that could be your problem. Rielly would be their number one but after that they are probably deeper than we are.

People love the sexy names or their own players are automatically better.
The sum of the parts is greater than the sum of ours at the moment.
Whatever it is that makes a group work in tandem to achieve success is not always present here. The status quo must change.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

From all the doom and gloom on the Leafs board you would think the Leafs got swept in 4 games..... they played one of the best teams in the NHL who are built for the playoffs went down 2 games to 0 and fought back like dogs to get it to game 7....

That shows some heart and I think people are being way way too harsh on a very young core of players.

 

[PinkFly]

Our defensemen aren't perfect, but seeing what Vegas can do with inferior defensemen makes me think there are other problems here

Matthews and his 2 points are a huge issue.

 

[56 Years No Cup]

Your hot takes are getting old. This was not a coaching issue. The Leafs D corps needs a massive upgrade. No amount of coaching can fix poor players. The Leafs are built on speed, so you play a game suitable to your strengths.

Fact is, they lost to a better team. That is all.

Participation Trophies for everyone!