Thank You Toby Enstrom!

[Tommigun]

Which GM would take a guy who plays well under 60 games a season producing a handful of points for almost 6M?

I think the huge divide in the fanbase comes from people who were following Enström in his prime and got really attached. It’s a kind of nostalgia I guess. People who didn’t follow him 7 years ago can’t understand at all why some think he’s good when his stats, games played and cap hit are all pretty horrible. Name one team that would have taken on that contract? One team not blinded by nostalgia goggles.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I need to ask you guys a question. I like Tobias but the fact is he had one goal and five assists in 43 games, and zero points in the playoffs. Those numbers are bottom of the NHL barrel bad. It’s hard to find an NHL:er with worse stats, and let’s not forget he has only played less than 59 games on average in the last four seasons... with a cap hit of 5.75M! I get it that he’s liked as person by many, but I can’t understand how anyone can defend those numbers. Someone will say that he shuts down others but come on, no matter how much shutting down he does it’s a net negative. I dare you to find an active NHLer with worse stats, for reals (not to mention the cap hit and injury problems).

He could have scored 0 points and still been a net positive. Not saying that was the case. IDK, but it is possible.

There is no cap problem associated with him, since his contract is done. You could only judge his value based on some unknown number that he might sign for next year.

Injuries are certainly an issue. He just isn't durable enough for the NHL anymore.

I don't expect him back. I have been predicting he would retire from the NHL and go back to Sweden for almost a year now. No one thing makes it certain but add up all the indicators and it is as close as it can be prior to the official announcement.

If he was going to come back he would have been signed a long time ago. He will be 34 early next season. He is beat up. His play has dropped off a lot. He has a sick wife. The writing is on the wall.

 

[NotCommitted]

I think the huge divide in the fanbase comes from people who were following Enström in his prime and got really attached. It’s a kind of nostalgia I guess. People who didn’t follow him 7 years ago can’t understand at all why some think he’s good when his stats, games played and cap hit are all pretty horrible. Name one team that would have taken on that contract? One team not blinded by nostalgia goggles.

Injuries and contract aside, I don't care about that stuff and don't evaluate players based on that, Enström had very good stats this season. In fact on many metrics he was the best D-man during regular season.

Watch the way he plays and what his role is, it's not a big surprise he didn't rack up a ton of points. Enström is basically that guy who is always in a defensively responsible position, while his D-partner is playing on the opposing goal line on doing whatever it is he happens to be doing (don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved Buff this season, he was a monster). Toby had both the best goal and corsi differential 5v5 among Jets D-men. When Enström was on ice, the team out scored their opponent and controlled play. Sucks that he missed so many games due to injury, but when he was in the line up he generally performed very well.

EDIT: forgot to mention I never knowingly watched Toby play before last season. Admittedly for what I remember I thought he wasn't much good. Don't know whether that was my ignorance or if he actually had a lot better season now. Maybe bit of both, the whole Jets sucked defensively last year.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Which GM would take a guy who plays well under 60 games a season producing a handful of points for almost 6M?

I think the huge divide in the fanbase comes from people who were following Enström in his prime and got really attached. It’s a kind of nostalgia I guess. People who didn’t follow him 7 years ago can’t understand at all why some think he’s good when his stats, games played and cap hit are all pretty horrible. Name one team that would have taken on that contract? One team not blinded by nostalgia goggles.

I would say the divide is more between the fans that look at his contract and his size and think he shouldn't make that much money, they should get rid of him. I don't think he was worth his deal by the end of it, but I still think he made the Jets a better team this year and that it was a fair contract when it was signed.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Truth be told we will need someone who can bring what Toby brings next season. We have our offense first guys with ok to suspect defense (Buff, Myers, Morrow soon to be Niku). We have our our two way guys Morrissey and Trouba. No idea what Poolman is yet and Chariot is well Chariot. We could use another suppression specialist to offset all the offense first guys we have.

Chiarot still being underrated here.

I don't think we need a collection of off-setting specialists. We need players who outscore the opposition - one way or another.

I can see the attraction in having a defensive wizard on the ice to cover for high risk players like Buff but it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that the high risk player outscores the opposition while he is on the ice. And, truth be told, Buff played excellent D most of the time this year.

But this is still a Toby appreciation thread, not a discussion of our future blueline. Toby brought a lot on the ice and he will be missed.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Which GM would take a guy who plays well under 60 games a season producing a handful of points for almost 6M?

I think the huge divide in the fanbase comes from people who were following Enström in his prime and got really attached. It’s a kind of nostalgia I guess. People who didn’t follow him 7 years ago can’t understand at all why some think he’s good when his stats, games played and cap hit are all pretty horrible. Name one team that would have taken on that contract? One team not blinded by nostalgia goggles.

Was he worth his contract last year? No. So what? Your criticisms are misplaced in an appreciation thread. If we are talking what he would be worth next year then his expired contract is irrelevant. He was good value for his contract through most of its term.

He fell off at the end, probably more due to the injuries than anything else. Happens to a lot of players at the end of their careers. What point are you trying to make here?

If you want to start a "Good Riddance Toby" thread, go ahead. Please look at the title of this thread.

 

[Jet]

Toby always has been one of our best defensemen. In the beginning (almost impossible to remember) he was a big point producer for us - I really remember him as an offensive sparkplug. Then the team changed, he got beaten up a bit and settled into a really great pmd who didn't really take many chances.

I think it's the tale of the two defensemen - each side of Toby was well needed and he earned the money the Jets paid him. Even at the end, he still played a very stable, consistent game in our zone - probably our best d man purely from our blue line in.

Which GM would take a guy who plays well under 60 games a season producing a handful of points for almost 6M?

Your post is wholly incorrect (the part about being attached to him years ago - he was still a great defenseman for us til the end of his contract but for different reasons. He just wasn't a flashy point producer.

But, I will just put to bed your (and others) incorrect assertion that he played WELL UNDER 60 games a season. This is really really easy to fact check:

2011-12	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	62	6	27	33	38	6	--	--	--	--	--
2012-13	Salzburg EC	Austria	5	1	0	1	4		--	--	--	--	--
2012-13	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	22	4	11	15	8	-8	--	--	--	--	--
2013-14	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	82	10	20	30	56	-9	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	60	4	19	23	36	13	4	0	1	1	0
2015-16	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	72	2	14	16	44	8	--	--	--	--	--
2016-17	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	60	1	13	14	42	-7	--	--	--	--	--
2017-18	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	43	1	5	6	20	8	11	0	0	0	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You can plainly see that Toby has averaged over 63 games a season (removing the lockout year). That removes the years in Atlanta where he was basically an ironman (SHOCKING).

Tobias Enstrom will go down as one of the most misunderstood, unappreciated players in Jets 2.0 history. What a gem.

Like I said earlier, I don't think Toby comes back. He goes home for a couple of reasons: After his family problems over the past while he probably wants to be close to his wider family, and if he goes home to play he will extend his career by many years.

I think if Toby wanted to stay, the Jets would offer him a 3 - 4 year contract. We don't exactly have a plethora of blue chip defensemen knocking down the door to play on the big club, and I still think Trouba is not going to stay.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Toby always has been one of our best defensemen. In the beginning (almost impossible to remember) he was a big point producer for us - I really remember him as an offensive sparkplug. Then the team changed, he got beaten up a bit and settled into a really great pmd who didn't really take many chances.

I think it's the tale of the two defensemen - each side of Toby was well needed and he earned the money the Jets paid him. Even at the end, he still played a very stable, consistent game in our zone - probably our best d man purely from our blue line in.



Your post is wholly incorrect (the part about being attached to him years ago - he was still a great defenseman for us til the end of his contract but for different reasons. He just wasn't a flashy point producer.

But, I will just put to bed your (and others) incorrect assertion that he played WELL UNDER 60 games a season. This is really really easy to fact check:

2011-12	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	62	6	27	33	38	6	--	--	--	--	--
2012-13	Salzburg EC	Austria	5	1	0	1	4		--	--	--	--	--
2012-13	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	22	4	11	15	8	-8	--	--	--	--	--
2013-14	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	82	10	20	30	56	-9	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	60	4	19	23	36	13	4	0	1	1	0
2015-16	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	72	2	14	16	44	8	--	--	--	--	--
2016-17	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	60	1	13	14	42	-7	--	--	--	--	--
2017-18	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	43	1	5	6	20	8	11	0	0	0	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You can plainly see that Toby has averaged over 63 games a season (removing the lockout year). That removes the years in Atlanta where he was basically an ironman (SHOCKING).

Tobias Enstrom will go down as one of the most misunderstood, unappreciated players in Jets 2.0 history. What a gem.

Like I said earlier, I don't think Toby comes back. He goes home for a couple of reasons: After his family problems over the past while he probably wants to be close to his wider family, and if he goes home to play he will extend his career by many years.

I think if Toby wanted to stay, the Jets would offer him a 3 - 4 year contract. We don't exactly have a plethora of blue chip defensemen knocking down the door to play on the big club, and I still think Trouba is not going to stay.

Good post. But I have a couple of points. 1) IIRC, Tommigun said that Toby averaged 59 games per season over the last 4 years, which is correct. 2) I doubt the Jets would offer Toby 3-4 more years under any circumstances. 1-2 maybe, at a much reduced salary. Even at 3 mil per, it would be hard to fit him under the cap beyond next season and his body does seem to be getting really beat up. Of course, he might be affordable a little longer if Trouba is gone.

I agree that he doesn't want to come back though, for several reasons.

 

[Jet]

Good post. But I have a couple of points. 1) IIRC, Tommigun said that Toby averaged 59 games per season over the last 4 years, which is correct. 2) I doubt the Jets would offer Toby 3-4 more years under any circumstances. 1-2 maybe, at a much reduced salary. Even at 3 mil per, it would be hard to fit him under the cap beyond next season and his body does seem to be getting really beat up. Of course, he might be affordable a little longer if Trouba is gone.

I agree that he doesn't want to come back though, for several reasons.

Hey Mort - you might be right about term but knowing the Jets it wouldn't be surprising.

As for Tommigun, I directly quoted his post where he said well under 60 games a season - which is wrong. I'm not sure if he said something different somewhere else.

 

[Duke749]

Toby always has been one of our best defensemen. In the beginning (almost impossible to remember) he was a big point producer for us - I really remember him as an offensive sparkplug. Then the team changed, he got beaten up a bit and settled into a really great pmd who didn't really take many chances.

I think it's the tale of the two defensemen - each side of Toby was well needed and he earned the money the Jets paid him. Even at the end, he still played a very stable, consistent game in our zone - probably our best d man purely from our blue line in.



Your post is wholly incorrect (the part about being attached to him years ago - he was still a great defenseman for us til the end of his contract but for different reasons. He just wasn't a flashy point producer.

But, I will just put to bed your (and others) incorrect assertion that he played WELL UNDER 60 games a season. This is really really easy to fact check:

2011-12	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	62	6	27	33	38	6	--	--	--	--	--
2012-13	Salzburg EC	Austria	5	1	0	1	4		--	--	--	--	--
2012-13	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	22	4	11	15	8	-8	--	--	--	--	--
2013-14	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	82	10	20	30	56	-9	--	--	--	--	--
2014-15	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	60	4	19	23	36	13	4	0	1	1	0
2015-16	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	72	2	14	16	44	8	--	--	--	--	--
2016-17	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	60	1	13	14	42	-7	--	--	--	--	--
2017-18	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	43	1	5	6	20	8	11	0	0	0	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

You can plainly see that Toby has averaged over 63 games a season (removing the lockout year). That removes the years in Atlanta where he was basically an ironman (SHOCKING).

Tobias Enstrom will go down as one of the most misunderstood, unappreciated players in Jets 2.0 history. What a gem.

Like I said earlier, I don't think Toby comes back. He goes home for a couple of reasons: After his family problems over the past while he probably wants to be close to his wider family, and if he goes home to play he will extend his career by many years.

I think if Toby wanted to stay, the Jets would offer him a 3 - 4 year contract. We don't exactly have a plethora of blue chip defensemen knocking down the door to play on the big club, and I still think Trouba is not going to stay.

Good post. And don’t forget last year he missed time from a leave of absence and that extremely dirty hit from Sesito. Injuries have only really been a big issue this year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Hey Mort - you might be right about term but knowing the Jets it wouldn't be surprising.

As for Tommigun, I directly quoted his post where he said well under 60 games a season - which is wrong. I'm not sure if he said something different somewhere else.

He made several posts. Pretty sure I saw 1 where he specified over the last 4 years. That avg is 58.75. Regardless of what TG said, I think that is significant for Toby. He has taken quite a beating over the course of his career and it does add up. JMO but I see that as a factor in him deciding to leave the NHL. He might be able to play another few years in Sweden with less of a pounding. Or he may be ready to quit playing altogether, IDK.

 

[Beavski24]

Enstrom sucked he ligit got 6 points this year as a second pairing. He may be a good guy but he was absolutly terrible past 3 years. Niku will be a beast for us ... morrow>enstrom nuff said

 

[Duke749]

Enstrom sucked he ligit got 6 points this year as a second pairing. He may be a good guy but he was absolutly terrible past 3 years. Niku will be a beast for us ... morrow>enstrom nuff said

Wrong. Facts prove you wrong.

 

[Beavski24]

Wrong. Facts prove you wrong.

6 points just doesnt cut it thats the only fact I need. Find me a top four d who gets paid 5.4m for that production. Here is a fun fact for you ron hainsey not only doubled but crushed enstrom in points this year
Either way I respect what he has given to the club and wish him the best but we have better players in the pressboc and farm team

 

[tntkid]

Enstrom's play is regressing and it is time to part ways.

 

[Duke749]

6 points just doesnt cut it thats the only fact I need. Find me a top four d who gets paid 5.4m for that production. Here is a fun fact for you ron hainsey not only doubled but crushed enstrom in points this year
Either way I respect what he has given to the club and wish him the best but we have better players in the pressboc and farm team

I guess there is no such thing as defense in your world. Don’t really get why people bring up his cap hit. It’s always been irrelevant in respect to our cap. It’s never handicapped us whatsoever and is coming off the books at the perfect time. So complaining about it is just people going out of their way to find something negative.

 

[surixon]

Chiarot still being underrated here.

I don't think we need a collection of off-setting specialists. We need players who outscore the opposition - one way or another.

I can see the attraction in having a defensive wizard on the ice to cover for high risk players like Buff but it doesn't really matter. All that matters is that the high risk player outscores the opposition while he is on the ice. And, truth be told, Buff played excellent D most of the time this year.

But this is still a Toby appreciation thread, not a discussion of our future blueline. Toby brought a lot on the ice and he will be missed.

I'm not sure how Ben is being underrated. He had a nice hot stretch where he picked up some points and he played more confidently but at the end of the day his metrics where still the worst of any dmen on the team. He is what he is a serviceable 6-7.

 

[Beavski24]

I guess there is no such thing as defense in your world. Don’t really get why people bring up his cap hit. It’s always been irrelevant in respect to our cap. It’s never handicapped us whatsoever and is coming off the books at the perfect time. So complaining about it is just people going out of their way to find something negative.

There is defence in my world, but also in my world I prefer my top 4 defencemen get points. I dont know how you can look at his play in recent years and look at his points this year and suggest getting 6 points is ok, maybe in your world you dont need points to win games? 11g 0 pts -2 healthy scratched 2018 playoffs

 

[Duke749]

There is defence in my world, but also in my world I prefer my top 4 defencemen get points. I dont know how you can look at his play in recent years and look at his points this year and suggest getting 6 points is ok, maybe in your world you dont need points to win games? 11g 0 pts -2 healthy scratched 2018 playoffs

And i don’t know how anyone can look at his defense and still whine and complain. Especially in a “thank you” thread. Says more about your character then anything. And I thought we had a knowledgeable fan base.

 

[wasup]

I'm not sure how Ben is being underrated. He had a nice hot stretch where he picked up some points and he played more confidently but at the end of the day his metrics where still the worst of any dmen on the team. He is what he is a serviceable 6-7.

Metric's are just that, you can point out all the metric's you want they are staticially entertaining and they give guys something to do but eye test and knowing hockey are way more important . You can just use them to try and prove your point for and against but they will quite often differ.

 

[Duke749]

Metric's are just that, you can point out all the metric's you want they are staticially entertaining and they give guys something to do but eye test and knowing hockey are way more important . You can just use them to try and prove your point for and against but they will quite often differ.

Eye test is flawed though. People look at things differently. They interpret things differently. And we’re all subject to preconceived biases. Stats help us confirm or change what we “think” we know.

 

[surixon]

Metric's are just that, you can point out all the metric's you want they are staticially entertaining and they give guys something to do but eye test and knowing hockey are way more important . You can just use them to try and prove your point for and against but they will quite often differ.

Chariot fails my eye test as well. He has a terrible gap, can't pass the puck out that well. He showed some confidence rushing the puck when things where going in the net for him, but he's shown flashes of that type of play before only to regress back. Sorry but the guy is now 27 years old and is what he is imo.

 

[Jack722]

There is defence in my world, but also in my world I prefer my top 4 defencemen get points. I dont know how you can look at his play in recent years and look at his points this year and suggest getting 6 points is ok, maybe in your world you dont need points to win games? 11g 0 pts -2 healthy scratched 2018 playoffs

read the thread

 

[10Ducky10]

Chariot fails my eye test as well. He has a terrible gap, can't pass the puck out that well. He showed some confidence rushing the puck when things where going in the net for him, but he's shown flashes of that type of play before only to regress back. Sorry but the guy is now 27 years old and is what he is imo.

With luck, he is our 7th D next year or traded. Come on Chevy, squeeze De Haan into the books.

 

[Ducky10]

The eye test on Chiarot passes but fails on Enstrom? Is that what I read?

Maybe in an alternate world.