WJC: Team Finland 2019 U20 WJC Roster Talk

[Maukkis]

Hey, it only took four games of me bashing Heponiemi to get something out of him.

 

[Gsus]

I thought this should be rather in this thread after all.

Quoted @Gsus in the Finland-Canada thread:
”Kakko was unbelievably invisible tonight. I mean usually he's one of the better players in a game. Wasnt bad, just didn't show too much. I think he'll steal the stage in the upcoming games tho.”

My answer:
He is very young still. And he is not also maybe as good as many of us Finns like to think of him (me too quite often). He is honestly a bit one sided really. A bit funny to say this about his type of a player, but I mean it that his game seems to be mostly about buzzing around with the puck, but not producing even close to as much real quality chances as it would be needed with that kind of puck skills. I also don't like at all the fact that he is having quite a hard time in scoring goals or even getting himself to really good scoring positions at this level. He also really doesn't shoot enough, and honestly his shot isn’t even that great. But definitely he should still shoot much more and get himself more into shooting positions. Otherwise he will be a one sided buzzer in the corners.

But of course all might change still even in this tournament, or at least next year, if he doesn't play already in the NHL, which I don't think he should do yet honestly, as I don't think that he will be really ready for it next season.

I agree to all of it. And also the best players have some quiet games as well. He's indeed a strong possession player and didn't play bad by any means. I just thought that he wasn't very visible compared to earlier games. He was still helping the team win board plays and such.

 

[llwyd]

So disgusting. Several times Finland had an amazing chance for a speedy counterattack, likely gaining an advantage or at the very least getting forwards on D and hence a good opportunity to beat them on 1-on-1s. Yet Finland intentionally pulls back and circles around, allowing the opponent to make a perfect defensive formation that they've practiced hundreds of times, I'm sure.

This terrible outdated slow attack style of team Finland always allows the defending team to be at their most comfortable. It's such a ridiculously stupid idea I can't believe Finland's so far behind the times.

Well, I don't think this is a black and white issue - yeah, I noticed also several times way too slow attacks that sometimes ended up with even a lost puck in our zone. But several times it also made eminent sense not to blindly attack but to wait to get our formation in order. And of course the theory of "our game" (a term I rather dislike) is that you don't automatically have a slow attack but only when it makes sense and if you do have it you should always get the puck out of zone in a controlled attack. This said I do think we should speed up and simplify our play - at least somewhat...

 

[BB88]

That play by Vaakanainen with less than 50 seconds to go in the game was b@llsy. He stepped up on the Canadian forward instead of playing it safe and backing up. He actually kicked it right to Tolvanen, who ended up making a great rush that tied it. No one mentioned that play by Vaak on TSN, who was out with a concussion for a long time and just started skating a couple weeks ago.

He's my hopefull future longterm partner for McAvoy.

SISU!
Switzerland next

I wouldn't call that style of play with SISU.

They honestly had a really weak 3rd, Canada had the controll before the goal.

 

[king89]

He's my hopefull future longterm partner for McAvoy.



I wouldn't call that style of play with SISU.

They honestly had a really weak 3rd, Canada had the controll before the goal.

In the third period Canada forced Finland to play bad, their defending and forechecking were really good. It was only the last five minutes or so we started to create chances. Finland played better then Canada in the last ten of the first and in the second period.

 

[absolute garbage]

Well didn't see that result coming. Finns played their best game of the tournament and the defense surprisingly held up somewhat. There are a couple guys there (mainly Latvala and Laaksonen) who are just walking disasters with the puck on their stick but overall the group did well, and you can thank two players for that:

Vaakanainen was the MVP of that game. He must have played close to 40 minutes and was an absolute rock. Smooth skater, good puck skills and can carry the puck, good size, battles hard, great stick and reach (defensively his area of coverage is immense). He's going to be a stud. Jokiharju played a great game too. One of those guys was on the ice the whole time (especially after the Heinola injury).

Offensively it was a struggle once again. There was that stretch in the 2nd half of the 2nd period where they got multiple great chances but couldn't finish (and DiPietro made some excellent saves), but rest of the game they couldn't really get anything going. A lot of perimeter battling. At the end they started getting pucks to the net but no grade A chances whatsoever. Tolvanen really wanted to be a difference maker and it was nice he got rewarded for his hard work in the end with the fluke tying goal.

Some lucky plays at the end, but I wouldn't say the win was undeserved. Canada was pretty toothless and Finns battled hard and persevered. The main thing going forward is can they continue to rely on the top pairing that much? Because if they get tired, or if the coaches just decide to ease off a bit, the team will be in trouble.

 

[king89]

Well didn't see that result coming. Finns played their best game of the tournament and the defense surprisingly held up somewhat. There are a couple guys there (mainly Latvala and Laaksonen) who are just walking disasters with the puck on their stick but overall the group did well, and you can thank two players for that:

Vaakanainen was the MVP of that game. He must have played close to 40 minutes and was an absolute rock. Smooth skater, good puck skills and can carry the puck, good size, battles hard, great stick and reach (defensively his area of coverage is immense). He's going to be a stud. Jokiharju played a great game too. One of those guys was on the ice the whole time (especially after the Heinola injury).

Offensively it was a struggle once again. There was that stretch in the 2nd half of the 2nd period where they got multiple great chances but couldn't finish (and DiPietro made some excellent saves), but rest of the game they couldn't really get anything going. A lot of perimeter battling. At the end they started getting pucks to the net but no grade A chances whatsoever. Tolvanen really wanted to be a difference maker and it was nice he got rewarded for his hard work in the end with the fluke tying goal.

Some lucky plays at the end, but I wouldn't say the win was undeserved. Canada was pretty toothless and Finns battled hard and persevered. The main thing going forward is can they continue to rely on the top pairing that much? Because if they get tired, or if the coaches just decide to ease off a bit, the team will be in trouble.

Well Canada were probably the toughest matchup for us, a team that master the northamerican style of play and can control the game with their good forechecking. I don't see any of the remaining teams play so good defensively as Canada did today. Against a worse defence we would have scored more.

I must say that Ahokas haven't been that bad of a coach. He has changed lines when it was needed, he put the pressure on Canada, he took out the goalie when there was still time to go, and not like many coaches that takes out the goalie when its almost over. He went down on players and topped the team when we needed a goal.

 

[CLW]

What a night for coach Ahokas. Congratulations x2!

 

[kings11]

Kakko is definately more of a playmaker than goalscorer but with his tools you can expect him to reach ~30 goals regularly, as long as things go as planned with his developement. Just don't expect him to be sniping most of his goals like Laine or Tolvanen.

At his peak Frolov was exactly that! A 30g-40a-70pt player...

 

[kelsier]

I thought this should be rather in this thread after all.

Quoted @Gsus in the Finland-Canada thread:
”Kakko was unbelievably invisible tonight. I mean usually he's one of the better players in a game. Wasnt bad, just didn't show too much. I think he'll steal the stage in the upcoming games tho.”

My answer:
He is very young still. And he is not also maybe as good as many of us Finns like to think of him (me too quite often). He is honestly a bit one sided really. A bit funny to say this about his type of a player, but I mean it that his game seems to be mostly about buzzing around with the puck, but not producing even close to as much real quality chances as it would be needed with that kind of puck skills. I also don't like at all the fact that he is having quite a hard time in scoring goals or even getting himself to really good scoring positions at this level. He also really doesn't shoot enough, and honestly his shot isn’t even that great. But definitely he should still shoot much more and get himself more into shooting positions. Otherwise he will be a one sided buzzer in the corners.

But of course all might change still even in this tournament, or at least next year, if he doesn't play already in the NHL, which I don't think he should do yet honestly, as I don't think that he will be really ready for it next season.

To be honest here, Kakko played 13:30 in the game against USA and 15:18 against CAN. Now if we look at Heponiemi for instance (who btw simply refuses to come back to bench when called at the line change), he played 19,54 and 22:12 in both respective games despite of having done nothing to warrant more minutes than Kakko in the tournament. Even the equaliser he "scored" had nothing to do with him but was a lucky pool shot by Tolvanen. Anyway, it's definitely hard to come visible when your TOI is that low and for no apparent reason. He was our best forward in the first games and then out of the blue sky he no longer gets prime minutes but plays like a third liner. Kakko could do lot better if he got more consistent ice time, of that I have little doubt of. I simply don't understand Ahokas at all in the way he utilises these lines and I'm simply stunned we've gotten even this far considering that he's there showing the ropes.

 

[julkki]

To be honest here, Kakko played 13:30 in the game against USA and 15:18 against CAN. Now if we look at Heponiemi for instance (who btw simply refuses to come back to bench when called at the line change), he played 19,54 and 22:12 in both respective games despite of having done nothing to warrant more minutes than Kakko in the tournament. Even the equaliser he "scored" had nothing to do with him but was a lucky pool shot by Tolvanen. Anyway, it's definitely hard to come visible when your TOI is that low and for no apparent reason. He was our best forward in the first games and then out of the blue sky he no longer gets prime minutes but plays like a third liner. Kakko could do lot better if he got more consistent ice time, of that I have little doubt of. I simply don't understand Ahokas at all in the way he utilises these lines and I'm simply stunned we've gotten even this far considering that he's there showing the ropes.

Kakko didn't deserve anymore minutes. He played quite well, but he was somewhat overwhelmed because of the opposition. There would have been a bigger chance to have a goal to our own net than in the Canada's end if second line's, excluding Tolvanen, minutes would have been increased.

 

[Nate070]

Any news about Heinola-injury...?

 

[FinPanda]

Any news about Heinola-injury...?

Skated tonight but without a jersey. He was shooting some pucks.

I don’t think he will play more games.

 

[Mestaruus]

Will be a tough task for Finland to beat the Swiss. Just look at these results and keep in mind that the Swiss are at their peak form now.

Practice games:
SUI-CAN 3-5
SUI-KAZ 4-1
RUS-SUI 4-1

Tournament preliminary games:
CZE-SUI 2-1
SUI-CAN 2-3
DEN-SUI 0-4
SUI-RUS 4-7

Tournament playoffs:
SWE-SUI 0-2

They have put up a fight with everyone. I'm quite afraid how this will end up with Finland being the favorite. Very often Finland doesn't play 100% in this position.

They scored only 1 less goal than Finland so far and SUI shooting % is a little bit better. SUI PK & PP are better.

More stats can be found here:
IIHF - statistics 2019 IIHF World Junior Championship

 

[behemolari]

Skated tonight but without a jersey. He was shooting some pucks.

I don’t think he will play more games.

whats the injury?

 

[FinPanda]

whats the injury?

I don't know, just guesses. Knee?

 

[king89]

Will be a tough task for Finland to beat the Swiss. Just look at these results and keep in mind that the Swiss are at their peak form now.

Practice games:
SUI-CAN 3-5
SUI-KAZ 4-1
RUS-SUI 4-1

Tournament preliminary games:
CZE-SUI 2-1
SUI-CAN 2-3
DEN-SUI 0-4
SUI-RUS 4-7

Tournament playoffs:
SWE-SUI 0-2

They have put up a fight with everyone. I'm quite afraid how this will end up with Finland being the favorite. Very often Finland doesn't play 100% in this position.

They scored only 1 less goal than Finland so far and SUI shooting % is a little bit better. SUI PK & PP are better.

More stats can be found here:
IIHF - statistics 2019 IIHF World Junior Championship

It will be a hard game for sure.

 

[Hokinaittii]

Skated tonight but without a jersey. He was shooting some pucks.

I don’t think he will play more games.

Here is hoping for a similar miracle recovery that Kotkaniemi had in U18s last year. No one expected him to return after seeing him getting helped off the ice but there he was ready for the next game.

 

[Nate070]

Skated tonight but without a jersey. He was shooting some pucks.

I don’t think he will play more games.

Thanks! Good to hear that he skated atleast

 

[fr9dd9]

For me, watching the SUI play it feels like they are a really hard working team but they dont really have that much supertalents. Mostly pure heart and disipline, but on this level that can do so much for the team as long as you have 1-3 that are verry skilled. I really hope FIN dont underestimate them

 

[behemolari]

Thanks! Good to hear that he skated atleast

exactly, knee injuries can be really nasty. knowing he can skate at this point is a good sign

 

[kelsier]

Kakko didn't deserve anymore minutes. He played quite well, but he was somewhat overwhelmed because of the opposition. There would have been a bigger chance to have a goal to our own net than in the Canada's end if second line's, excluding Tolvanen, minutes would have been increased.

This must be the most ludicrous statement in the topic yet. Kakko who had been one of our best if not the best offensive player in the games prior to USA and CAN (while actually scoring points) was not good enough? How in your expert-opinion was he not good enough? He didn't score a single point vs USA and played only 13:30 for who knows why and was still elected as the team's best player. Now against Canada it was his line that was capable of pushing pressure at the offensive end especially in the second period while the first line again spent tons of time just trying to keep the puck out of our own net while they were overwhelmed at our D-zone several times by Canada. The same way they were against USA. Now I would like to hear you explain in a detail why Kakko wasn't good enough? Oh and please don't forget that his time with the OT excluded was something like 14+ minutes.

It's the first line that has been completely useless. Only after Tolvanen was playing as an extra attacker they were able to get something done. Heponiemi, who's taken a proportion of Kakko's minutes by not coming in when called has been nothing but underwhelming throughout the tournament. Ahokas has been running lines 1s followed by 2nd, then 3rd/4th and whenever there hasn't been a whistle Heponiemi has practically double-shifted in every game played. Yeah sure, he deflected the puck into the net against CAN simply by skating at the right place at the right time and then got the secondary assist in the OT but other than that, has been a major disappointment in the tournament.

Ahokas prefers the first line over the others as we can see despite it's weaknesses and poor performance (supported by numbers) while clearly having age prejudicism and not trusting the younger players even when they've been better most of the times, resulting in the TOI equal to third line player for Kakko and Lundell. When looking at the shot metrics the two of them were by far the best for the team after the two games in particular which more or less displays who are the most capable of creating offence. I'm sure that has diminished by now due to low ice time, which in turn provides some sort of insight in regards to why the team was so ineffective against USA and Canada too with only 3 goals scored when combined. He also seems to lack discipline or at least I cannot figure out a better explanation why players can pick their own preferred times to come back into the bench. Luckily for us Canada wasn't much of a team this year and even though the The Swiss shouldn't be underestimated, suppose we still have good enough odds to beat them but if Ahokas isn't capable of getting the offence going, the gold medal will be a distant dream.

 

[1OApick]

At his peak Frolov was exactly that! A 30g-40a-70pt player...

Can't see Frolov. Frolov was lazier and lacks intensity. Kakko is hard player to compare.

 

[julkki]

This must be the most ludicrous statement in the topic yet. Kakko who had been one of our best if not the best offensive player in the games prior to USA and CAN (while actually scoring points) was not good enough? How in your expert-opinion was he not good enough? He didn't score a single point vs USA and played only 13:30 for who knows why and was still elected as the team's best player. Now against Canada it was his line that was capable of pushing pressure at the offensive end especially in the second period while the first line again spent tons of time just trying to keep the puck out of our own net while they were overwhelmed at our D-zone several times by Canada. The same way they were against USA. Now I would like to hear you explain in a detail why Kakko wasn't good enough? Oh and please don't forget that his time with the OT excluded was something like 14+ minutes.

It's the first line that has been completely useless. Only after Tolvanen was playing as an extra attacker they were able to get something done. Heponiemi, who's taken a proportion of Kakko's minutes by not coming in when called has been nothing but underwhelming throughout the tournament. Ahokas has been running lines 1s followed by 2nd, then 3rd/4th and whenever there hasn't been a whistle Heponiemi has practically double-shifted in every game played. Yeah sure, he deflected the puck into the net against CAN simply by skating at the right place at the right time and then got the secondary assist in the OT but other than that, has been a major disappointment in the tournament.

Ahokas prefers the first line over the others as we can see despite it's weaknesses and poor performance (supported by numbers) while clearly having age prejudicism and not trusting the younger players even when they've been better most of the times, resulting in the TOI equal to third line player for Kakko and Lundell. When looking at the shot metrics the two of them were by far the best for the team after the two games in particular which more or less displays who are the most capable of creating offence. I'm sure that has diminished by now due to low ice time, which in turn provides some sort of insight in regards to why the team was so ineffective against USA and Canada too with only 3 goals scored when combined. He also seems to lack discipline or at least I cannot figure out a better explanation why players can pick their own preferred times to come back into the bench. Luckily for us Canada wasn't much of a team this year and even though the The Swiss shouldn't be underestimated, suppose we still have good enough odds to beat them but if Ahokas isn't capable of getting the offence going, the gold medal will be a distant dream.

Well, by only watching the game, you could have seen that second line had a difficult time to have scoring-opportunities. We clearly have watched different games, because of your insights of the second period. Kakko played his own game and challenged the opposition in 1vs1-situations. But unfortunately the result was mostly a lost puck. Tolvanen was the player that made the most of opportunities for the second line.

Ahokas is doing alright with these players that he has. It's not his fault if the talent-level of the forwards isn't any higher. Scoring-race like we saw in WJC 2016 just isn't possible with these players. Lundell and Kakko will be a force to reckon with in the future, but to demand that they could do same kind of impact that Laine, Aho and Pulju were able to do, is just daydream fantasy.

 

[Ville231]

Will be a tough task for Finland to beat the Swiss. Just look at these results and keep in mind that the Swiss are at their peak form now.

Practice games:
SUI-CAN 3-5
SUI-KAZ 4-1
RUS-SUI 4-1

Tournament preliminary games:
CZE-SUI 2-1
SUI-CAN 2-3
DEN-SUI 0-4
SUI-RUS 4-7

Tournament playoffs:
SWE-SUI 0-2

They have put up a fight with everyone. I'm quite afraid how this will end up with Finland being the favorite. Very often Finland doesn't play 100% in this position.

They scored only 1 less goal than Finland so far and SUI shooting % is a little bit better. SUI PK & PP are better.

More stats can be found here:
IIHF - statistics 2019 IIHF World Junior Championship

Well we’re talking about the semi-finals. There shouldn’t be any ”easy” games at this point of the tournament.