The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
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Confirmed with Link: [TBL/SJ] Barclay Goodrow & 2020 3rd rd pick (PHI) for 2020 1st rd pick and Anthony Greco
- Thread starter TheDaysOf 04
- Start date
Shoresy Snipes
Give yer B's a T ya T F'r
- May 6, 2017
- 463
- 236
I just hope Coop starts resting star players in the last few weeks. Seriously, if nothing else, and even if its just for practices and not games, the top liners need to double their "body maintenance" days as the regular season winds down.
Even if these new guys play better than they have, historically, ever played before, we cannot overcome another Pointer-with-a-squeaky-hip or fuzzy-headed-Heddy or a broken-down-on-side-of-road-MacTruck
Even if these new guys play better than they have, historically, ever played before, we cannot overcome another Pointer-with-a-squeaky-hip or fuzzy-headed-Heddy or a broken-down-on-side-of-road-MacTruck
- Jan 23, 2017
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This is just a bigger overpayment. Coleman, I get it, but this guy is a freaking 4th liner.
My take is JBB definitely panicked and overpaid big time for Barclay. This trade is also an indictment of Yzerman's drafting of hockey midgets for many years that failed to put together a lineup of 6 feet, 210 plus players needed to consistently win playoff hockey games. Skill is great but you have to have the size to counter the other team's beasts. We did not have it against the Pens, Capitals or the Jackets last year. We now have 2 solid lines of quality size to throw at the upper echelon teams.
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 48,776
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Oh I don't think it was a good deal at all - especially when friggin Brady Skjei (a player I think is pretty good) got a 1st. We're at best dropping like 35 picks from this trade.
But... I mean we are a better team, and that ain't nothing. And we have a bit of cost certainty next year - can move Paquette maybe and save 700k on the cap without needing an internal replacement. I don't like the deal. I question JBB's ability. I hope it pays off though.
I’m jacked about Goodrow. They call him the Swiss Army knife in San Jose. He’s gritty, hard to play against and has tons of competitiveness.
He plays a HEAVY game.
We have a very strong roster right now. It’s Exciting!
He plays a HEAVY game.
We have a very strong roster right now. It’s Exciting!
LightningStrikes
Champa Bay Lightning
- Nov 24, 2009
- 26,238
- 10,091
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
LightningStrikes
Champa Bay Lightning
- Nov 24, 2009
- 26,238
- 10,091
Not sure "panic" is the right word but it appears that he was in a high stakes bidding war with another team for Goodrow. He said in his presser yesterday, that he had Goodrow (and Coleman) on his radar for a long time. Obviously he wanted those players - at all cost - and didn't like the idea of another team, maybe even a divisional rival and potential playoff opponent snagging them up. And their combined $2.9M cap hit through next season paired with their size, grit and two-way play were enough to make JBB give up two mid to late 1st round picks (and Nolan Foote).
I agree with your assessment that Yzerman's love affair for smallish skill forwards put us in a tough situation here. This team has repeatedly been eliminated by teams that wear us down physically while clogging up the middle of the ice. Having a couple big bodied, competitive and tough-to-play-against new players injecting fresh blood and character into this group was ultimately a necessity. Gotta give JBB respect for trying to address that. But at a hefty price that at the same time makes this a big gamble. At least he's tried. Now it's up to Cooper and the team.
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
- 29,111
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On the bright side, he has as many points and goals as Gourde and cost 1/5th the price
Major4Boarding
Unfamiliar Moderator
I get what your saying, if I understand it correctly. The value of that 1st for a guy like Skjei, with term, is parallel. But in our case, that's a deal we couldn't have made simply because a $5M+ contract couldn't fit. So the value(s) I hope everyone will potentially come around to understanding is, they were the only pieces we had. What if the deal with SJ for Goodrow was for Cal Foote instead of just the TBL 2020 1st? We couldn't move a roster player like Johnson, Gourde, Killorn, or Palat. These are obviously guys we need for this run.
The other teams that made moves and everyone seems to be lamenting about, they all had the cap room to do it. Short and long term. Plus their contract numbers were lower or made moves to get even lower (CAR>FLA comes to mind).
When you skim our prospect pool, does a Verhaeghe, Stephens, Joseph, Volkov, etc move the needle for SJ? With say our 2nd? Especially when Goodrow is under contact for next season and SJ doesn't have to move him? JBB said he pretty much had to force NJ and SJ to give these guys up.
Major4Boarding
Unfamiliar Moderator
I didn't want to stretch the page with a continuous post.
Look you all, I hold the value of a pick as much as everyone else does. I'm a draft guy. I'm a prospect junkie. Especially Collegiate hockey. I've been bitching since Al Murray and staff were brought onboard that we need to be drafting high end defensive prospects. Then not as much since we ended up with Cernak, then snagging Sergachev. When we did the Coleman deal I said "There goes half my first round plans". Yesterday the first thing that came to mind is I now have to delete all my first round notes
. Honestly that's where my head was at because I get the overall process JBB is trying to do here.
Look you all, I hold the value of a pick as much as everyone else does. I'm a draft guy. I'm a prospect junkie. Especially Collegiate hockey. I've been bitching since Al Murray and staff were brought onboard that we need to be drafting high end defensive prospects. Then not as much since we ended up with Cernak, then snagging Sergachev. When we did the Coleman deal I said "There goes half my first round plans". Yesterday the first thing that came to mind is I now have to delete all my first round notes
. Honestly that's where my head was at because I get the overall process JBB is trying to do here.
TheDaysOf 04
[ 2 6 ] [ 4 ]
Goodrow says he wasn't expecting to be traded and was surprised. Goes with what JBB said yesterday about SJ not wanting to trade him and JBB having to sweeten the deal to force a move. No one has to like what we gave up for him, but on the flip side, you want players other teams don't want to trade.
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Alwalys
Phu m.
- May 19, 2010
- 25,894
- 6,140
all part of the plan. it worked out perfectly!Although to be fair maybe the Sharks win in regulation without him as he was a -3 before that
CupsOverCash
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
- 16,382
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Sounded like nobody from NJ wanted to trade Coleman either but the first I think was convincing. JBB bid high to get his guys. I dont think you can knock a GM for being aggressive when they need him to be. Time is ticking. We needed toughness down the middle and some flexibility for the offseason. JBB made sure he got it.
Zwui21
Registered User
- Aug 31, 2019
- 2,233
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"It was interesting. I asked a Lightning player a few weeks ago what they thought the team should add, and the veteran actually suggested Goodrow, who was on our trade target list."
From Why do the Lightning seem so willing to trade their...
My guess is that it was Hedman suggesting it.
From Why do the Lightning seem so willing to trade their...
My guess is that it was Hedman suggesting it.
The Macho King
Back* to Back** World Champion
- Jun 22, 2011
- 48,776
- 29,312
This right here.
I can't believe we traded Namestnikov who's 6'0 instead of Kucherov and Palat who are just 5'11. When we traded for McDonagh we should've traded them Cirelli instead of Howden. Our bottom 6 would be unstoppable if we had Brain Hart, Saku Salminen and Boko Imama in it.
Powerplay17
Registered User
Like both trades. 1st round picks can be a tough sell to the fan base but these were moves made for next year too. I commend JBB for going all in. Picks can be obtained in the summer in the right deal as Killorn is probably gone.
The window is wide open for a cup, go for it. They win it, no one here will care about the picks.
The window is wide open for a cup, go for it. They win it, no one here will care about the picks.
CupsOverCash
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
- 16,382
- 7,107
He has a point though. I think that while yea we dont just want to target big players we cant just target all small, fast, skilled players. Is definitely a reason for why this team has struggled at times. Is definitely the reason for the trade and gave up first round draft choices for them. Of course the flexibility for next year played a factor too but having bigger guys who can play fast and chippy was something our roster lacked.
R
Really! You would prefer we didn't draft Kucherov, Palat, Point and Cirelli cause they're too small?
What are the worst picks made by Yzerman, it's mostly the big forwards. 2011 every forward made the NHL with the biggest one only being 6 180, 2012 the only forward to not make the NHL was 6'3 200+ Hart, 2013 Salimen 6'3 never even played in the AHL, 2014 the worst forward was probably 5'11 DiGiacinto so I guess that analogy works, 2015 is a little too early still but the worst forwards are between 5'11 Tammela and 6'1 Imama. I would say we did a lot better with guys under 6' or just at 6' than those 6'+. The biggest forward we drafted whose made the NHL is 6'3 Howden who looks no more than a 3C. So I would prefer we keep doing what we're doing and take the best player in that spot.
Really! You would prefer we didn't draft Kucherov, Palat, Point and Cirelli cause they're too small?
What are the worst picks made by Yzerman, it's mostly the big forwards. 2011 every forward made the NHL with the biggest one only being 6 180, 2012 the only forward to not make the NHL was 6'3 200+ Hart, 2013 Salimen 6'3 never even played in the AHL, 2014 the worst forward was probably 5'11 DiGiacinto so I guess that analogy works, 2015 is a little too early still but the worst forwards are between 5'11 Tammela and 6'1 Imama. I would say we did a lot better with guys under 6' or just at 6' than those 6'+. The biggest forward we drafted whose made the NHL is 6'3 Howden who looks no more than a 3C. So I would prefer we keep doing what we're doing and take the best player in that spot.
CupsOverCash
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
- 16,382
- 7,107
CupsOverCash
Registered User
- Jun 16, 2009
- 16,382
- 7,107
I'm not going to pretend to know who we should have drafted but I think waterboy has a good point about SYs drafting. I think he was excellent no doubt but at the same time after looking at it all, our issue of size has come up a lot and we just traded for some! I feel like the trade deadline is a place to take care of what you lacked in your draft. I dont think it's an "indictment" on SYs draft ability but more so just that we put a higher importance on the skill and IQ which I'm all for but when we had issues with the size we can point to the lack of attention to that detail. It also doesn't mean that the way he did it was wrong either, it's just what we valued when drafting and it is has worked for the most part. Its just where we have gotten stuck at you cant help but wonder who else we should have targeted in certain situations. Not even just the draft in other times as well.
What I will say about this though is that the league has shifted a little more towards getting a little bigger again after Washington and St. Louis won. And it's no secret that we want to get bigger. If SY had forecasted all that we would have a cup by now but I also dont blame him for that or for the team not winning a cup by now. We cant just point to size for why they lose and some questions still need to be answered if they are going to.
