Proposal: TB-WPG, TB-DET

[McJedi]

Because he wants to stay in Tampa? Probably why Lebanc was willing to sign for cheap in San Jose, he liked the place, the team, wanted to win and knew the money would be there eventually.

And now LaBanc is a laughing stock and cautionary tale.

 

[majormajor]

Gourde isn't waiving to go to Winnipeg but he would be a great acquisition. He's a much better all-around player than Tyler Johnson.

 

[nbwingsfan]

How will Tampa make major changes. Other than Killorn. How?

Are we back to the nonsensical fantasy a bunch of guys with full NTCs agree to waive in the middle of a pandemic.

Maybe Cirelli is the one that leaves. Maybe it's Sergachev. Maybe it's Killorn and Johnson. But you're not going to see all of Tampa's RFAs taking major discounts just so that they can't keep the team together.

There's going to be 3 or 4 pretty big pieces leaving Tampa this off-season regardless of what some Naive Tampa fans think. Whether that's losing their RFAs or having to trade picks and prospects to get rid of Palat/Johnson/Killorn/Gourde

 

[CaptBrannigan]

You mean Seattle gets Cernak to take Tyler Johnson. Seattle will get to pick a good player off Tampa’s roster to take T Johnson.

Possibly, especially if he keeps on the trend he’s on. Lot can change in a year so who really knows. I wouldn’t be surprised if one way or another he ends up there.

 

[HoseEmDown]

And now LaBanc is a laughing stock and cautionary tale.

Again, where is the career ending injury he received? Where is his release? Where do you see that no NHL team is willing to sign him? You have no idea if what Lebanc did was good or bad because he hasn't signed a new contract yet. He can still easily get a good deal. Can you also tell me all the offers that he turned down last year?

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

TB trades: Killorn/Gourde, Joseph, and a 2020 3rd
WPG trades: Vesalainen

Tampa moves out Killorn or Gourde for cap space and gets a prospect who can fill in the bottom 9 right away

Winnipeg gets a top 6 forward , a young 3rd line winger and a pick


TB trades: Johnson, 2020 4th
DET trades: WSH 2020 2nd

Tampa clears more cap and moves up in the draft, Johnson waives to get more ice time and play under Yzerman again

Detroit gets a 2nd line center to fill in as a veteran presence who can still produce, and moves back 60ish spots in the draft

Flip the two of those. Johnson + 2nd for 4th or just a straight up 4th for Johnson. You want to dump his money, it will cost you a little.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Again, where is the career ending injury he received? Where is his release? Where do you see that no NHL team is willing to sign him? You have no idea if what Lebanc did was good or bad because he hasn't signed a new contract yet. He can still easily get a good deal. Can you also tell me all the offers that he turned down last year?

You can absolutely tell it is bad because he took a low value contract with the expectation his value would increase by his play. It did not. He will not get the same offer that he would last year, even if he still gets a good one.

 

[JTBF81]

It's pretty straightforward for Tampa, Killorn and Paquette get moved 1st, which will provide enough for Sergachev and Cirelli, even after replacing Killer and Paqman with low hit contracts. After that, most likely Johnson is asked to waive as his role is getting further reduced and there's a chance he could get waived if it came to it. While Johnson could decline, if he's faced with either getting even less ice time next year and potentially either take a chance at being waived or having to submit a 20 team list vs waiving for a smaller list of places now, he may be inclined for a fresh start.

Coburn will also be moved or bought out. Tampa will then have 6 to 6.7 million to pay Cernak and 3 or 4 others, most likely at least one of Bogo/Rutta, Maroon and probably one or two other younger guys from Syracuse. Tampa can also try to ask Palat or Gourde to waive, but both of them seem to be of higher importance to Tampa moving forward. Despite what some have fantasized on here, it is far from impossible to have a Tampa player waive an ntc and is still a more likely scenario than Tampa losing one of Serg or Cirelli to an OS.

 

[McJedi]

Maybe Cirelli is the one that leaves. Maybe it's Sergachev. Maybe it's Killorn and Johnson. But you're not going to see all of Tampa's RFAs taking major discounts just so that they can't keep the team together.

There's going to be 3 or 4 pretty big pieces leaving Tampa this off-season regardless of what some Naive Tampa fans think. Whether that's losing their RFAs or having to trade picks and prospects to get rid of Palat/Johnson/Killorn/Gourde

again. Answer me this. How the hell do you trade picks and Johnson to another team, say Detroit, when Johnson has a full NTC.

Johnson has a full NTC. So does Palat. So does Gourde. They cannot be traded. Period. The end.

Tampa May roll the dice and waive someone like Gourde. He may get picked up on waivers. Probably does. It’s far from a slam dunk Johnson gets claimed on waivers. Waiving Gourde is probably Tampa’s best shot at freeing up cap space after Killorn is traded.

 

[McJedi]

It's pretty straightforward for Tampa, Killorn and Paquette get moved 1st, which will provide enough for Sergachev and Cirelli, even after replacing Killer and Paqman with low hit contracts. After that, most likely Johnson is asked to waive as his role is getting further reduced and there's a chance he could get waived if it came to it. While Johnson could decline, if he's faced with either getting even less ice time next year and potentially either take a chance at being waived or having to submit a 20 team list vs waiving for a smaller list of places now, he may be inclined for a fresh start.

Coburn will also be moved or bought out. Tampa will then have 6 to 6.7 million to pay Cernak and 3 or 4 others, most likely at least one of Bogo/Rutta, Maroon and probably one or two other younger guys from Syracuse. Tampa can also try to ask Palat or Gourde to waive, but both of them seem to be of higher importance to Tampa moving forward. Despite what some have fantasized on here, it is far from impossible to have a Tampa player waive an ntc and is still a more likely scenario than Tampa losing one of Serg or Cirelli to an OS.

It’s no sure thing Johnson gets claimed on waivers. You better waive Gourde instead. The idea you get a guy to waive a full NTC during the pandemic is nonsense. These guys aren’t going to want to move a wife and family to a new city, worse team in a worse tax state in 2020. This fantasy Tampa fans have about waiving full NTCs to help a team a player would not longer play for is beyond Pollyanna-ish. It’s down right stupid. The best threat is you’d waive Gourde and he’d get claimed on waivers. That will infuriate the lockeroom. So good luck with that.

Johnson’s contract is also a problem. No team with cap space is adding that 5mm without a very nice sweeter attached. A nice sweetener isn’t a 2nd round pick. It’s someone like Cernak.

the idea Cirelli or Serg signs for less than at least $5mm AAV each is also silly. They’ll get at least that on a 2-3 year bridge.

 

[McJedi]

Again, where is the career ending injury he received? Where is his release? Where do you see that no NHL team is willing to sign him? You have no idea if what Lebanc did was good or bad because he hasn't signed a new contract yet. He can still easily get a good deal. Can you also tell me all the offers that he turned down last year?

Lol. You can’t believe what you just wrote. There are zero people in the NHL, LaBanc included, that think he came out ahead with that one year deal. It was an unmitigated disaster. He’s still an RFA. Coming off a bad year. He can never make up the money he lost taking less last year, his team was awful and he’s now an RFA again in a far worse economic climate. It was easily the worst contract decision a player has made in many years. He pissed away a few million for the sake of a team and rich owners that just watched the 3rd overall pick convey to Ottawa.

his career isn’t over. He’ll sign more contracts. But he’ll never make back the money he pissed away in 2019-20 and his next deal that will be signed from a position of less strength. What as massive mistake he made.

 

[McJedi]

Possibly, especially if he keeps on the trend he’s on. Lot can change in a year so who really knows. I wouldn’t be surprised if one way or another he ends up there.

What won’t happen is Seattle takes Johnson. Not without a nice sweetener. Tampa will have far more interesting players to select on better deals with more upside. Seattle will make a business decision. Tampa will too. They’ll want to move Johnson. And they’ll incentivize Seattle to take the local kid on the bad deal.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

If Tampa wins the cup, I could see Johnson waiving to Detroit for a chance to get his #2C spot back. With the understanding we leave him unprotected and workout a deal for Seattle to take him in the expansion draft.

So we'd be Paying SEA to take TJ in '21? That's bad asset mgmt, for 1 yr. of TJ.

He'd better come with some good sweeteners if that's the case.

 

[JTBF81]

It’s no sure thing Johnson gets claimed on waivers. You better waive Gourde instead. The idea you get a guy to waive a full NTC during the pandemic is nonsense. These guys aren’t going to want to move a wife and family to a new city, worse team in a worse tax state in 2020. This fantasy Tampa fans have about waiving full NTCs to help a team a player would not longer play for is beyond Pollyanna-ish. It’s down right stupid. The best threat is you’d waive Gourde and he’d get claimed on waivers. That will infuriate the lockeroom. So good luck with that.

Johnson’s contract is also a problem. No team with cap space is adding that 5mm without a very nice sweeter attached. A nice sweetener isn’t a 2nd round pick. It’s someone like Cernak.

the idea Cirelli or Serg signs for less than at least $5mm AAV each is also silly. They’ll get at least that on a 2-3 year bridge.

Lol, sure he won't get claimed, keep spinning that narrative where Tampa loses their rfas next year. I'm sure no team would take for free a guy who averages close to 50 points a year over his career and is on a fair contract, despite this one down year. He could also then be traded aftet 1 year if the claiming team wanted to go that route. Gourde is favored by Brisebois and is simply a better player, so it's very unlikely he'd be asked to waive or get waived.

Both Serg and Cirelli are very likely to sign for less than 5 million on a bridge in Tampa. Serg will take slightly less than McAvoy and Werenski, so 4.5 or so is about right. Cirelli won't get much more in terms of cap % hit than any of Killorn, palat or Johnson did on there bridges(4.8%, bump to 5 or a little higher, so 4 to 4.25.for Cirelli, maybe 4.5).

In a pandemic and flat cap, players will take less in most cases as teams attempt to save as much as possible. Tampa will never add a player like Cernak to move Johnson either, you may want to lay off whatever it is you're smoking. You can be as delusional as you like, Cirelli won't be wearing an Avs or anybody else's jersey aside from Tampa's, and Serg isn't going anywhere either. You know jack about how things will play out in Tampa and just throw out same pitiful absolutes like u know all with no actual examples or facts. Again, people like you say the same shit every year about Tampa's impending implosion, and as usual, you've been wrong every time. It's a waste of time to keep responding to people like you further, so I won't. Maybe you'll finally be right once about Tampa this time, hey even a blind dumb squirrel finds a nut occassionally.

 

[McJedi]

Lol, sure he won't get claimed, keep spinning that narrative where Tampa loses their rfas next year. I'm sure no team would take for free a guy who averages close to 50 points a year over his career and is on a fair contract, despite this one down year. He could also then be traded aftet 1 year if the claiming team wanted to go that route. Gourde is favored by Brisebois and is simply a better player, so it's very unlikely he'd be asked to waive or get waived.

Both Serg and Cirelli are very likely to sign for less than 5 million on a bridge in Tampa. Serg will take slightly less than McAvoy and Werenski, so 4.5 or so is about right. Cirelli won't get much more in terms of cap % hit than any of Killorn, palat or Johnson did on there bridges(4.8%, bump to 5 or a little higher, so 4 to 4.25.for Cirelli, maybe 4.5).

In a pandemic and flat cap, players will take less in most cases as teams attempt to save as much as possible. Tampa will never add a player like Cernak to move Johnson either, you may want to lay off whatever it is you're smoking. You can be as delusional as you like, Cirelli won't be wearing an Avs or anybody else's jersey aside from Tampa's, and Serg isn't going anywhere either. You know jack about how things will play out in Tampa and just throw out same pitiful absolutes like u know all with no actual examples or facts. Again, people like you say the same shit every year about Tampa's impending implosion, and as usual, you've been wrong every time. It's a waste of time to keep responding to people like you further, so I won't. Maybe you'll finally be right once about Tampa this time, hey even a blind dumb squirrel finds a nut occassionally.

Of course in your make believe world, all the Tampa RFAs take way below market deals, no teams call their agents anyway. Tyler Johnson gleefully forgoes his full NTC, he didn’t actually want that in his contract, how’d it get in there? He’s thrilled to pack up his life and family in Tampa to move to Detroit or Ottawa during a truncated off season in the middle of a pandemic so he can make less and lose games for the next seasons. Tampa is thrilled to watch him piss off. Ottawa probably gives Tampa several nice picks for him. Killorn gets traded for a first plus. Then Bettman says he’s joking, the cap is really $89mm and Dallas rolls over and forfeits the rest of the playoffs. They are ready to go home now. It’s just tied up in a perfect little bow.

then you wake up. Some Tampa fans = Pollyanna.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

^ very bitter about something Tampa-related for months. Sad.

 

[nbwingsfan]

again. Answer me this. How the hell do you trade picks and Johnson to another team, say Detroit, when Johnson has a full NTC.

Johnson has a full NTC. So does Palat. So does Gourde. They cannot be traded. Period. The end.

Tampa May roll the dice and waive someone like Gourde. He may get picked up on waivers. Probably does. It’s far from a slam dunk Johnson gets claimed on waivers. Waiving Gourde is probably Tampa’s best shot at freeing up cap space after Killorn is traded.

You do know that players can waive those clauses, right?

It's not a guarantee but players do it literally every season. There could be a variety of reasons why any of these players would waive, especially Gourde/Johnson who have been dropped down the depth chart

 

[HoseEmDown]

You do know that players can waive those clauses, right?

It's not a guarantee but players do it literally every season. There could be a variety of reasons why any of these players would waive, especially Gourde/Johnson who have been dropped down the depth chart

Um, your wrong. No player wants to leave Tampa with its beautiful weather, tax free state and winning culture so none of those guys would ever consider waiving their NTC. But if your an RFA then you can't wait to get the f*** out of town and you'll be signing every offersheet that comes your way.

 

[McJedi]

You do know that players can waive those clauses, right?

It's not a guarantee but players do it literally every season. There could be a variety of reasons why any of these players would waive, especially Gourde/Johnson who have been dropped down the depth chart

You think a guy in his 30s with term left on his deal that knows he’ll never see a big contract again is thrilled to waive? Johnson isn’t going to be dying to get more ice time on a crappy team. He’s not going to want to move his family. In a pandemic. Pay more taxes, find a new home, build a new life. Just for four more minutes a game of ice time on a lousy team. Thinking about some contract that doesn’t come up for years.
This isn’t some video game dude. It’s life for these guys. Being on a 3rd line instead of a 4th line isn’t going to mean much to a player in this position.

what would be interesting is making Cirelli choose to leave 3mm a year on the table over the next 2-3 seasons. That’s a 9mm dollar sacrifice. That’s a real decision.

 

[BatVader]

only way Winnipeg is helping Tampa out of their cap issue is if we are getting a 2C in return...ie; Cirelli
Cirelli + Killorn is something i’d do.

 

[njx9]

Um, your wrong. No player wants to leave Tampa with its beautiful weather, tax free state and winning culture so none of those guys would ever consider waiving their NTC. But if your an RFA then you can't wait to get the f*** out of town and you'll be signing every offersheet that comes your way.

Bit of a difference between a dude with a guaranteed contract and an RFA deciding whether or not to lose millions of dollars.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You think a guy in his 30s with term left on his deal that knows he’ll never see a big contract again is thrilled to waive? Johnson isn’t going to be dying to get more ice time on a crappy team. He’s not going to want to move his family. In a pandemic. Pay more taxes, find a new home, build a new life. Just for four more minutes a game of ice time on a lousy team. Thinking about some contract that doesn’t come up for years.
This isn’t some video game dude. It’s life for these guys. Being on a 3rd line instead of a 4th line isn’t going to mean much to a player in this position.

what would be interesting is making Cirelli choose to leave 3mm a year on the table over the next 2-3 seasons. That’s a 9mm dollar sacrifice. That’s a real decision.

1. I didn't know you were so close.to these guys and already know their family decisions? Can you show me the quote where he said he doesn't want more ice time or to move his family?

2. Fleury waive his NTC in his 30s.
Heatley waived his NTC in his 30s.
Lucic waived his NTC in his 30s
Luongo waived his NTC in his 30s
Kessel waived his NTC in his 30s
Eriksson by all accounts is willing to waive his NTC
OEL is willing to waive his NTC

Once again, players in their 30s waive their NTC/NMC all of the time when their situations change

3.Why would a player like Johnson/Gourde want more ice time? Because they're proud people who enjoy playing the game? Because they will still have other contracts after this and being a 30pt player on the 3rd/4th line versus a 60-70pt player in the top 6 will make a MASSIVE difference.

4. Why is it assumed these guys are going to "crappy" teams? So much can change so quickly.

Point being, you have no idea why these people will or won't waive their clauses.

 

[McJedi]

1. I didn't know you were so close.to these guys and already know their family decisions? Can you show me the quote where he said he doesn't want more ice time or to move his family?

2. Fleury waive his NTC in his 30s.
Heatley waived his NTC in his 30s.
Lucic waived his NTC in his 30s
Luongo waived his NTC in his 30s
Kessel waived his NTC in his 30s
Eriksson by all accounts is willing to waive his NTC
OEL is willing to waive his NTC

Once again, players in their 30s waive their NTC/NMC all of the time when their situations change

3.Why would a player like Johnson/Gourde want more ice time? Because they're proud people who enjoy playing the game? Because they will still have other contracts after this and being a 30pt player on the 3rd/4th line versus a 60-70pt player in the top 6 will make a MASSIVE difference.

4. Why is it assumed these guys are going to "crappy" teams? So much can change so quickly.

Point being, you have no idea why these people will or won't waive their clauses.

let’s be serious here and no living in fantasy land. Which one of those guys waived in a pandemic?
Which one waived while in Tampa.
Which one waived off a cup contender in a no state tax state.

the answer is none of them. Tyler Johnson will be 34 when this contract ends. There is no big next contract in his future. He’s already signed his last big deal. His next deal will reflect what his career will be at 34. A journeyman signing short term deals until the NHL has no use for him anymore. He’s never playing for his next big contract.

and waiving this offseason is entirely for the teams benefit, not his.

Find me a good team with 5mm in cap space for a 3rd liner like Johnson that only sends back futures or ECLs. There isn’t one.

unless Tampa attaches a nice asset or eats a bad contract, there isn’t a dance partner for Johnson that’s good.

so now he’s waiving. In a pandemic, paying more taxes, moving expenses, uprooting his life to go to a crappy team all for the benefit entirely for Tampa’s organization so they can recapture his AAV conveniently to pay younger former teammates of his . Lol. I’m sure he and his agent love that narrative. Take my AAV and give it to the kids. Their happy. My former team Tampa is happy. I’m not but whatever.

Or Because he playing for a better contract in 2024? Nope. That isn’t it either.

because he wants a play second line on Detroit or Buffalo? Probably not.

And this new team has to protect him in the expansion draft because he’s got a limited NTC. Sucks for that new team. I’m sure they love that. We don’t need that 23 year old promising 3C. We’ve got Johnson at 5mm as he ages into his mid 30s.

None of what you wrote is relevant or makes sense in this case.

 

[nbwingsfan]

let’s be serious here and no living in fantasy land. Which one of those guys waived in a pandemic?
Which one waived while in Tampa.
Which one waived off a cup contender in a no state tax state.

the answer is none of them. Tyler Johnson will be 34 when this contract ends. There is no big next contract in his future. He’s already signed his last big deal. His next deal will reflect what his career will be at 34. A journeyman signing short term deals until the NHL has no use for him anymore. He’s never playing for his next big contract.

and waiving this offseason is entirely for the teams benefit, not his.

Find me a good team with 5mm in cap space for a 3rd liner like Johnson that only sends back futures or ECLs. There isn’t one.

unless Tampa attaches a nice asset or eats a bad contract, there isn’t a dance partner for Johnson that’s good.

so now he’s waiving. In a pandemic, paying more taxes, moving expenses, uprooting his life to go to a crappy team all for the benefit entirely for Tampa’s organization so they can recapture his AAV conveniently to pay younger former teammates of his . Lol. I’m sure he and his agent love that narrative.

Or Because he playing for a better contract in 2024? Nope. That isn’t it either.

because he wants a play second line on Detroit or Buffalo? Probably not.

And this new team has to protect him in the expansion draft because he’s got a limited NTC. Sucks for that new team. I’m sure they love that.

None of what you wrote is relevant or makes sense in this case.

I dont know why you keep just saying Johnson. This also applies to Palat/Killorn/Gourde.

Why don't you ask why so many other players waive their NTC every. Single. Season.

It's hilarious that you keep acting like it isn't normal for players to waive their NTC. It's quite common and that's not disputable.

Johnson was also a very good player when he got more ice time. Maybe he wants to go back to that? You have no idea what he's thinking so stop acting like you do.

Fleury has already waived his NTC during a pandemic and on a cup contender... So there goes that argument. OEL has been shopped all off-season by all reports.

I love when posters act like they know every decision a player makes just because they say so. All we know for a fact is that a NTC does not mean a player won't be traded.

 

[McJedi]

I dont know why you keep just saying Johnson. This also applies to Palat/Killorn/Gourde.

Why don't you ask why so many other players waive their NTC every. Single. Season.

It's hilarious that you keep acting like it isn't normal for players to waive their NTC. It's quite common and that's not disputable.

Johnson was also a very good player when he got more ice time. Maybe he wants to go back to that? You have no idea what he's thinking so stop acting like you do.

Fleury has already waived his NTC during a pandemic and on a cup contender... So there goes that argument. OEL has been shipped all off-season by all reports.

I love when posters act like they know every decision a player makes just because they say so. All we know for a fact is that a NTC does not mean a player won't be traded.

And guys all the time, as is most often the case, elect not to waive. You have yet to identify a reason why Johnson waives.

Killorn doesn’t have a full NTC. His is limited. He’s getting dealt. Pull him out of this convo. palat and Goorde probably won’t waive either. It’s more to Tampa’s benefit than theirs.

what is far more probable, a guy like Cirelli signs an OS paying him several million more per year than Tampa can afford. That Cirelli puts his financial future first. Than a guy like Johnson puts his Financial well being and comfort behind the cap problems he’ll solve for Tampa by waiving.