Proposal: TB-WPG, TB-DET

[Sparty]

Yes that's why they're going to make major changes to their roster in the off season. But Cirelli isn't accepting $4M a year.

I was just curious. In the past decade, only two other players have finished as high as Cirelli just did in Selke voting as a 22 yr old (or younger), Toews and Barkov. Both of them were Top Four in voting (or better) at 21 and 22. Jordan Staal made it as a 22 yr old, but that was eleven years ago. And Cirelli's no slouch on offense either.

If he only gets $4m from Tampa he either is conceding a LOT to make his team better or he needs a new agent.

 

[SnakeIdol]

Yes that's why they're going to make major changes to their roster in the off season. But Cirelli isn't accepting $4M a year.

I agree, Cirelli is about to get a sizable pay raise, but I think it's easier to predict what Sergachev and Cernak will demand as RFA's than Cirelli.

Carlo was drafted in the 2015 draft in the 2nd round(37). In 2015, Cernak was also drafted in the 2nd(43). Carlo 2 x 2.85 for 5.7

McAvoy was drafted 14th in the 2016 draft. Sergachev was drafted 9th in the same draft. McAvoy 3 x 4.9 for 14.7

Cirelli will probably see an offer sheet and the NHL doesn't have many 200 foot centers to compare against.

 

[JTBF81]

And yet between 4 and 4.5 is all Cirelli is going to get on his bridge. He's good but Tampa doesn't massively overpay guys coming off their elc. He'll end up getting a similar, perhaps slightly increased, contract in terms.of cap % to what Killorn, Johnson and Palat took on their first non elc, around 5% of the then cap. He and Sergachev have no arbitration rights, so unless they are dead set on leaving Tampa for a worse team and location for $, they'll be in Tampa next season. As neither has even remotely indicated they are interested in leaving their pretty good situation in Tampa, good luck to other teams thinking they'll get them via OS. Cernak is the only Tampa rfa that could be lost, but Tampa will probably be able to fit him in as well in the 2-2.5 range.

 

[RCAFguy]

And yet between 4 and 4.5 is all Cirelli is going to get on his bridge. He's good but Tampa doesn't massively overpay guys coming off their elc. He'll end up getting a similar, perhaps slightly increased, contract in terms.of cap % to what Killorn, Johnson and Palat took on their first non elc, around 5% of the then cap. He and Sergachev have no arbitration rights, so unless they are dead set on leaving Tampa for a worse team and location for $, they'll be in Tampa next season. As neither has even remotely indicated they are interested in leaving their pretty good situation in Tampa, good luck to other teams thinking they'll get them via OS. Cernak is the only Tampa rfa that could be lost, but Tampa will probably be able to fit him in as well in the 2-2.5 range.

If someone offer sheets him at 6.5+ a year, he will think and and hard about it.

 

[Sota Popinski]

There's no way Tampa can fit anything in that realm under the cap.

The point isn't that Tampa is going to pay that. It's that Cirelli is going to get offered more than $4.2 million, so he wouldn't sign it. There are a lot of center-hungry teams out there. A team like the Wild would probably offer $6.5M per for 4-5 years and still only have to give up a 1st and 3rd in compensation. Cirelli is worth more than $4.2M, other teams would offer more than that, and Tampa would just match a piddly $4.2 million offer.

 

[Sparty]

I just don't see how you can offer the guy anything less than what Yanni Gourde makes, that'd be pretty disrespectful.

 

[Jimmyjets]

I just don't see how you can offer the guy anything less than what Yanni Gourde makes, that'd be pretty disrespectful.

The Tampa way is ELC, bridge deal for 3 years, big money contract with full NMC. It feels like they've gone that route with everyone so you can't compare the cheap bridge deal they want to give Cirelli to someone else's big money contract with full NMC.

Tampa needs to hope that Cirelli wants to play ball to stay and will take a cheap 1 year deal. They trade Killorn this offseason and then hope that Seattle takes Palat, Gourde or Johnson to free up space to make a more competitive bridge deal work for the last 2 years of the bridge. Then they pay him once they have Killorn (traded), Palat (contract expired) and Gourde/Johnson (expansion) all off the books. They'll need to have paid Point but that's 3 years down the road.

The real trend in the NHL now is for the young guys to get paid and you just need to look at Kevin Labanc to see the perils of doing the team a solid. This year wasn't nearly as good as last year for him so we'll see how that salary negotiation goes.

 

[nbwingsfan]

And yet between 4 and 4.5 is all Cirelli is going to get on his bridge. He's good but Tampa doesn't massively overpay guys coming off their elc. He'll end up getting a similar, perhaps slightly increased, contract in terms.of cap % to what Killorn, Johnson and Palat took on their first non elc, around 5% of the then cap. He and Sergachev have no arbitration rights, so unless they are dead set on leaving Tampa for a worse team and location for $, they'll be in Tampa next season. As neither has even remotely indicated they are interested in leaving their pretty good situation in Tampa, good luck to other teams thinking they'll get them via OS. Cernak is the only Tampa rfa that could be lost, but Tampa will probably be able to fit him in as well in the 2-2.5 range.

Hes a much better player than the ones you just listed on a team that is MUCH more strapped for cash than they were as well.

A team could offer all the way up to $6.5M and only have to give up a 1st + 3rd round pick which is a steal for a player like Cirelli.

If you think he's going to leave $2-2.5M on the table just to stay in Tampa you're going to be in a bad mood in the off season

 

[BruinsBtn]

The point isn't that Tampa is going to pay that. It's that Cirelli is going to get offered more than $4.2 million, so he wouldn't sign it. There are a lot of center-hungry teams out there. A team like the Wild would probably offer $6.5M per for 4-5 years and still only have to give up a 1st and 3rd in compensation. Cirelli is worth more than $4.2M, other teams would offer more than that, and Tampa would just match a piddly $4.2 million offer.

Time will tell.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Hes a much better player than the ones you just listed on a team that is MUCH more strapped for cash than they were as well.

A team could offer all the way up to $6.5M and only have to give up a 1st + 3rd round pick which is a steal for a player like Cirelli.

If you think he's going to leave $2-2.5M on the table just to stay in Tampa you're going to be in a bad mood in the off season

When did Cirelli hit 72 points, 63 or 64 points? He may be better than Johnson, Palat or Gourde now but they peaked much higher than him before they signed. His career high is 44 points. Brayden Point had a 92 point season and was expected to sign an offersheet for 9M plus last year. I can't see Cirelli getting 6M i really can't see him getting 5M. What I really see if him taking a 1 year 3.75M deal then getting 8 x 6 next offseason.

 

[nbwingsfan]

When did Cirelli hit 72 points, 63 or 64 points? He may be better than Johnson, Palat or Gourde now but they peaked much higher than him before they signed. His career high is 44 points. Brayden Point had a 92 point season and was expected to sign an offersheet for 9M plus last year. I can't see Cirelli getting 6M i really can't see him getting 5M. What I really see if him taking a 1 year 3.75M deal then getting 8 x 6 next offseason.

No player is signing for one year during these uncertain times and after what happened to Lebanc

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If Tampa wins the cup, I could see Johnson waiving to Detroit for a chance to get his #2C spot back. With the understanding we leave him unprotected and workout a deal for Seattle to take him in the expansion draft.

 

[HoseEmDown]

No player is signing for one year during these uncertain times and after what happened to Lebanc

What happened to Lebanc? Did he have a career ending injury? Cause he still hasn't signed his next contract yet, you have no idea how much money he may have lost. He's also arbitration eligible now so he could take San Jose there if they aren't willing to pay.

Next season there's the expansion draft which will open up more cash and several more players become tradeable. The money is there for him to cash out then.

 

[nbwingsfan]

What happened to Lebanc? Did he have a career ending injury? Cause he still hasn't signed his next contract yet, you have no idea how much money he may have lost. He's also arbitration eligible now so he could take San Jose there if they aren't willing to pay.

Next season there's the expansion draft which will open up more cash and several more players become tradeable. The money is there for him to cash out then.

The money is also available for him right now from plenty of teams.

And if you don't think Labsnc didn't lose major value this past season I don't know what to tell you.

Why would he skgn for one year and risk so much when he could sign for long term and wayore money now?

 

[HoseEmDown]

The money is also available for him right now from plenty of teams.

And if you don't think Labsnc didn't lose major value this past season I don't know what to tell you.

Why would he skgn for one year and risk so much when he could sign for long term and wayore money now?

Because he wants to stay in Tampa? Probably why Lebanc was willing to sign for cheap in San Jose, he liked the place, the team, wanted to win and knew the money would be there eventually.

 

[JTBF81]

If someone offer sheets him at 6.5+ a year, he will think and and hard about it.

Not from a non contender. Very few teams that he'd even think twice about could realistically offer 6.5+ and not put themselves in their own cap dilemma soon enough. It wouldn't be really surprising if both he and Serg take right around 4.5x3 and Tampa moves on. Offer sheets are exceedingly rare, and even less often accepted, so Tampa really isn't worried about them for either Cirelli or Serg.

 

[JTBF81]

Hes a much better player than the ones you just listed on a team that is MUCH more strapped for cash than they were as well.

A team could offer all the way up to $6.5M and only have to give up a 1st + 3rd round pick which is a steal for a player like Cirelli.

If you think he's going to leave $2-2.5M on the table just to stay in Tampa you're going to be in a bad mood in the off season

Nah, more likely you'll just be another whining fan of s division rival when Tampa, like they have for the last 6 years despite assurances from ppl like you that they were doomed, keeps the guys they want. Good luck thinking Cirelli is leaving Tamps for a cellar dweller or fringe playoff team over 1.5 million. Being the 2C on a top contender in a fantastic location while still getting paid 12-14 million over the next 3 years vs being the 2 or 3C on a bad team, no chance at the Cup, freezing my ass off over half the year(in many locations) and much higher taxes?? Yeah, I don't think myself and other Tampa fans will be the ones in a bad mood re: Cirelli's next contract.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Because he wants to stay in Tampa? Probably why Lebanc was willing to sign for cheap in San Jose, he liked the place, the team, wanted to win and knew the money would be there eventually.

And he wasn't being offered very much and decided to bet on himself and that clearly backfired on him.

I think you're greatly exaggerating how much loyalty players actually have to their teams,or you're just naive.

What sounds better, 5 years at $6.5M or one at $3.75. I dont care what city it is,I'm clearly taking the $32.5M in the middle of a pandemic instead.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Nah, more likely you'll just be another whining fan of s division rival when Tampa, like they have for the last 6 years despite assurances from ppl like you that they were doomed, keeps the guys they want. Good luck thinking Cirelli is leaving Tamps for a cellar dweller or fringe playoff team over 1.5 million. Being the 2C on a top contender in a fantastic location while still getting paid 12-14 million over the next 3 years vs being the 2 or 3C on a bad team, no chance at the Cup, freezing my ass off over half the year(in many locations) and much higher taxes?? Yeah, I don't think myself and other Tampa fans will be the ones in a bad mood re: Cirelli's next contract.

1. You're right, I forgot no teams ever get better and Tampa will always be the best

2. It's hilarious that on a "stacked" Tampa he's the 2C but on these cellar dwellers you list him as the 3C

3. It's not "$1.5M" ... It's $1.5 M over 5 years making that a TON of money. Of even more ridiculously if you use that other posters example, it's $29M

4. You're so naive if you think there's this massive team loyalty when we're talking about millions of dollars in the middle of a pandemic

 

[Halla]

Johnson isnt really a cap dump, hes a decent 2nd line center who got stuck behind Point, Stamkos, and Cirelli so he moved to the wing. he can kill penalties and brings a veteran presence to a group of young guys. can still produce 20 goals a year with the right amount of ice time and could probably put up 50+ points

he makes 5mil with 4 years left

He has only put up more than 50pts once in his career so thats a pretty loft expectation


looks like he has settle in as more of a 40-50pt guy with 50 being the ceiling


still thats too much $$$ with whats going on now for that kind of production

 

[JTBF81]

1. You're right, I forgot no teams ever get better and Tampa will always be the best

2. It's hilarious that on a "stacked" Tampa he's the 2C but on these cellar dwellers you list him as the 3C

3. It's not "$1.5M" ... It's $1.5 M over 5 years making that a TON of money. Of even more ridiculously if you use that other posters example, it's $29M

4. You're so naive if you think there's this massive team loyalty when we're talking about millions of dollars in the middle of a pandemic

Lol, keep whining, it'll make it that much better when Cirelli signs his bridge. Now to tespond to your laughable bullet points:
1. Never said other teams can't or won't get better, but no reason for a player like Cirelli(or Serg for that matter) to leave great positions on s top 3 or 4 cup contender for the next 3 years.

2. I said he'd be the 2 or 3C on other likely OS teams, but nicely done omitting part of what I said.

3. Again, money isn't everything to everyone, and the 5-6x raise he'll be getting while having a great chance at more cups and in a great location with less taxes could very easily play a big role in his decision.

4. It's pretty obvious you don't understand or know Tampa's organizational set up/philosophy st all. You talk about team loyalty not being s factor when every Tampa rfa the last half decade has shown this commitment to taking a more team friendly bridge following the elc and preceding a larger long term deal. Odds are most will take less, not more during this flat cap/pandemic situation with teams not wanting to spend as much as usual. Myself and other Tsmps fans aren't the naive ones here, we have a lot of examples of Tampa rfas doing this. You and others like you have none, just your, "trust me, Tampa guys will go for the money and not be loyal to the tesm" schtick you've been wrong with for 5 years. I'm sure you and others will be right though one of these times.

 

[HoseEmDown]

And he wasn't being offered very much and decided to bet on himself and that clearly backfired on him.

I think you're greatly exaggerating how much loyalty players actually have to their teams,or you're just naive.

What sounds better, 5 years at $6.5M or one at $3.75. I dont care what city it is,I'm clearly taking the $32.5M in the middle of a pandemic instead.

Do you know what he was being offered? If he wasn't being offered much as you say then how did he lose out on millions if it wasn't even on the table?

So players aren't very loyal to the teams then why don't we see more offersheets? And if players aren't loyal then why is every Tampa player with a NTC clause going to exercise it to stay in Tampa instead of waiving? So only young players who haven't cashed in yet aren't loyal but once you get that big contract you are?

So if 5 x 6.5 will be there this offseason why wouldn't 4 x 7.2 be there next offseason? If Cirelli continues his growth and development he should be top 5 in Selke again, his offensive game should continue to grow and there will be more money available with the expansion draft. Everyone called Kucherov crazy for taking a 3 year bridge at 4.76 when they said he should've went for long term at like 6.5. Well in those 3 years he became a 90 point player and got 9.5M. He made himself more money by taking the bridge. PK Subban made himself a lot more money taking a bridge. Barkov and MacKinnon hurt themselves by taking a longer term deal. There's not a huge downside to take a bridge.

 

[McJedi]

I think Tampa would do that

And Minnesota wouldn’t.

 

[McJedi]

I don't think Johnson moves until next offseason, when he is traded to Seattle and the condition coming back is pretty much the Lightning get to decide who the Kraken take in the draft. Or something similar is worked out. It just seems to make too much sense, with him being from Washington state and all.

You mean Seattle gets Cernak to take Tyler Johnson. Seattle will get to pick a good player off Tampa’s roster to take T Johnson.

 

[McJedi]

Yes that's why they're going to make major changes to their roster in the off season. But Cirelli isn't accepting $4M a year.

How will Tampa make major changes. Other than Killorn. How?

Are we back to the nonsensical fantasy a bunch of guys with full NTCs agree to waive in the middle of a pandemic.