Proposal: TB-WPG, TB-DET

CaptBrannigan

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Apr 5, 2006
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I don't think Johnson moves until next offseason, when he is traded to Seattle and the condition coming back is pretty much the Lightning get to decide who the Kraken take in the draft. Or something similar is worked out. It just seems to make too much sense, with him being from Washington state and all.
 

jgimp

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Sep 18, 2017
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Killorn by himself returns more than Vesalainen. Tampa Bay isn't going to have to add.

So which contender would he be willing to go to that has the cap space to take his contract? Most teams now have an internal team cap they are trying to get under and very few will be able to take on the kind of hit that Killorn (or Gourde, TJ and Palat as well) will bring. Yes they are absolutely still useful players but man, TBay is going to be in tough to move out the salary they need to to resign their RFAs.
 

BruinsBtn

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Dec 24, 2006
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Killhorn has a 16 team no-trade clause. You can bet that Winnipeg is on it.

The other guys have total NMCs and I doubt they waive to go anywhere.

If I'm Winnipeg or Detroit, I offersheet Cirelli with $4.2m and see how it goes.
 

DFC

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So which contender would he be willing to go to that has the cap space to take his contract? Most teams now have an internal team cap they are trying to get under and very few will be able to take on the kind of hit that Killorn (or Gourde, TJ and Palat as well) will bring. Yes they are absolutely still useful players but man, TBay is going to be in tough to move out the salary they need to to resign their RFAs.

...So you're saying we won't see any UFAs signed? And TB doesn't have to worry about offer sheets for their RFAs because nobody has enough cap space? That helps us quite a bit.
 
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HoseEmDown

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Just cut Winnipeg out of the deal. Johnson + Joseph + 3rd to Detroit for Washington 2nd? Move Killorn elsewhere to get a pick or two back.
 

Guttersniped

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I'd tend to agree, but in this case I think it would be made with the expectation of trading Johnson down the line. Assuming it costs what the OP suggested, perhaps its more like a 3rd or 4th, the Wings fall about 60 spots to make the trade. It wouldn't shock me to see him being dealt for a lot more in a year or two.

Assuming that Johnson produces with his increased TOI he should be an attractive TD piece for a contending team. On a normal TD I'd think the Wings could get a 2nd+3rd, similar to the Nyquist or Johansson deals. We also saw what players on cheap contracts can go for this TD and I wonder what Johnson with 40-50% retained could get on the open market. Johnsson at 2.5M for 2 or 3 seasons would be an interesting piece for a ton of contenders that are looking for added scoring.
Johnson is owed 14m in his last three years after next season so I don’t see any team proactively planning to get him and flip him while pay half that salary just for futures.

Blake Colman had 2 years/1.8m and Barclay Goodrow had 2 years/ 925k. Those deals were rock bottom cheap and that’s why Tampa targeted them. Johnson at 2.5m is pretty cheap but you can see how Tampa wanted <2m players for that 2 year period and paid 1sts for them. You can’t assume that’s always a thing and multiple years of retention seems like a bad idea. If he seems like a good vet then go for it but you aren’t likely flipping him until he’s closer to UFA.

A 2nd sounds about right, with Detroit the question is which one (I’d vote not Detroit’s because of the value if cap space but I assume that’s what Tampa would want).
 

jgimp

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...So you're saying we won't see any UFAs signed? And TB doesn't have to worry about offer sheets for their RFAs because nobody has enough cap space? That helps us quite a bit.

What I’m implying is that I don’t see many (any) of Killorn, Gourde, Palat or TJ waiving to teams like Ott, Det, Buf etc (teams out of playoff contention for the foreseeable future). While a few teams like Peg and COL have cap space, it definitely limits your trade options to free up cap space to sign your RFAs, and again, they still need to waive. Not impossible but probably going to be a bit of a challenge.
Offer sheets are a different monster. First, the offering team has to have the picks available, and then the player has to accept. Not saying it will happen but it really wouldn’t surprise me to see one or two this year knowing how tight teams are up against the cap.
I think TBay will work this out somehow, but someone has got to go
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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Yeah, a rebuilding Red Wings team isn't taking on Johnson for a 2nd rounder to help TB with their cap issues. The 2nd would be coming with Johnson for a 4th to TB. That is much closer than the OP proposal.
Exactly this!

Except likely a 1st+ as sweetener(s). Yzerman owes the Bolts nothing & vice versa. They're lucky the Wings ALLOWED him to breach his contract in '11 w/DET & interview for the Bolts GM position. (Wings are painfully loyal to their own). Now that our Captain is back, all other GM's are on notice, pay the market price for cap space or don't bother calling.
 

ConnorMcNugesaitl

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Sep 23, 2012
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I'm one of the few Wings fans who would do that deal, and proposed something similar on our board earlier in the year.

I think Yzerman needs to show core guys that he will get them help and Johnson is a solid veteran F who can play C/W in the top 6/9 until his contract expires.

He comes a little rich but that's why he is so affordable in a trade.

The team can still try Fabbri as a 2C and put Johnson on his RW if they want. Makes Zadina earn a top 6 role. If Fabbri fails at C then Johnson can take over.

I also fully believe his numbers will spike back up in Detroit due simply to TOI and usage. He would be on PP1 and probably among the leaders in ES TOI for Fs on the team, behind only Larkin and maybe Mantha?

I don't think he would be a ~70 point player again, but somewhere between 50-60 points for most of the rest of his contract is more than fair based on his cap hit.

From what I've seen in various places around the interwebs many Wings fans would be happy just to continue to tank and collect picks or try to take picks for bad contracts.

Not sure that's the Yzerplan though, he doesn't really seem like the tank and do nothing kind of guy.
 

HoseEmDown

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Mar 25, 2012
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Exactly this!

Except likely a 1st+ as sweetener(s). Yzerman owes the Bolts nothing & vice versa. They're lucky the Wings ALLOWED him to breach his contract in '11 w/DET & interview for the Bolts GM position. (Wings are painfully loyal to their own). Now that our Captain is back, all other GM's are on notice, pay the market price for cap space or don't bother calling.

We're not paying a 1st or a 2nd to move him. He's a fine middle 6 player these days, slightly overpaid because of the flat cap. He has 4 years left on his contract but really just 1 in Tampa if he refuses to waive this summer. He's either taken in the expansion draft or traded when his NTC becomes modified. If we have to keep him that's fine as he is still a good player just not at his peak anymore.
 

nbwingsfan

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Dec 13, 2009
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TB trades: Killorn/Gourde, Joseph, and a 2020 3rd
WPG trades: Vesalainen

Tampa moves out Killorn or Gourde for cap space and gets a prospect who can fill in the bottom 9 right away

Winnipeg gets a top 6 forward , a young 3rd line winger and a pick


TB trades: Johnson, 2020 4th
DET trades: WSH 2020 2nd

Tampa clears more cap and moves up in the draft, Johnson waives to get more ice time and play under Yzerman again

Detroit gets a 2nd line center to fill in as a veteran presence who can still produce, and moves back 60ish spots in the draft

IMO Johnson has borderline negative value especially when you consider how badly Tampa needs to clear cap space

If swap our third round picks for Johnson but that's about it
 

nbwingsfan

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Dec 13, 2009
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Killhorn has a 16 team no-trade clause. You can bet that Winnipeg is on it.

The other guys have total NMCs and I doubt they waive to go anywhere.

If I'm Winnipeg or Detroit, I offersheet Cirelli with $4.2m and see how it goes.
I doubt Cirelli accepts $4.2M. He's looking at $5.5+
 

Ghost of Ethan Hunt

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We're not paying a 1st or a 2nd to move him. He's a fine middle 6 player these days, slightly overpaid because of the flat cap. He has 4 years left on his contract but really just 1 in Tampa if he refuses to waive this summer. He's either taken in the expansion draft or traded when his NTC becomes modified. If we have to keep him that's fine as he is still a good player just not at his peak anymore.
That's fine. TJ is a solid middle 6'er, but we're not paying to add his 4yr. bloated salary & cap. We have plenty of other options, including the status quo. We'll be getting plenty of decent to good offers, as there is a huge surplus of sellers & shortage of cap space teams.

I'm seeing some say TJ will return to scoring 50-60pts+ with more TOI in Detroit...hahahaha. We're a lottery team & he'd be lucky to replicate 40pts, even with 3-4more min/gp.

Yzerman owes TBL nothing & vice versa. If anything, the Wings did Yzerman & the Bolts a HUGE Favor by allowing him to interview & accept the GM job in '11 (he was still under contract with the Wings), but the Wings are painfully loyal to their own. The Cup team you're watching now & for the last 9+ seasons is all Yzerman (save for Hedman & Stamkos) who were there prior. You're welcome.

Sure JBB added Goodrow/Coleman/Shatty/ZachB., those are depth pieces after his departure/homecoming, some of which cost 1sts, ouch. But the blueprint was all Stevie Y.

The runner up finalist DAL, is built by Wings former AGM Jim Nill.
 

HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
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It's not that I think the Johnson trade is unfair value... But I have no interest in taking him on at the cost of a second. We need as many draft picks as we can get and Johnson will be long gone by the time we play relevant hockey again. The value's fine, but Detroit shouldn't be looking to make trades like this.
 
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sweetberrywine

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Jun 3, 2010
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Yzerman owes TBL nothing & vice versa. If anything, the Wings did Yzerman & the Bolts a HUGE Favor by allowing him to interview & accept the GM job in '11 (he was still under contract with the Wings), but the Wings are painfully loyal to their own. The Cup team you're watching now & for the last 9+ seasons is all Yzerman (save for Hedman & Stamkos) who were there prior. You're welcome.

It's the Wings' world, we're all just grateful to be living in it...

Regarding OP, I agree with others saying the value in the DET trade isn't too far off but idk if I see the fit being there. It seems like every year TB is going to be in cap trouble but they get out of it. Flat cap/internal caps might actually make it happen this off-season though. Should be interesting.
 

WingsMJN2965

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Oct 13, 2017
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Johnson is a fine player and well work a 2nd.

... Just not for a team that is rebuilding. Detroit can easily sign a 30 year old veteran presence without giving up another shot at a steal.
 

DFC

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From what I've seen in various places around the interwebs many Wings fans would be happy just to continue to tank and collect picks or try to take picks for bad contracts.

Not sure that's the Yzerplan though, he doesn't really seem like the tank and do nothing kind of guy.

Yzerman is an absolute tankmaster. I say this as a life-long Yzerman fan. If you don't think a few of those TB teams tanked, I don't know what to tell you. I mean, we had Ben Bishop, and played Anders Lindback down the stretch one time. Another time we were like three points out of a playoff spot and he sold off.

Interestingly enough, we got more from the collected assets than from the higher picks, although we did turn Drouin into Sergachev, AFTER Drouin refused to play and went home.

You're in very good hands. But some of these early days are gonna hurt.
 

Zetterberg4Captain

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Aug 11, 2009
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Teams pay other teams for cap relief. That's how it works, has worked and always will work.

IF Tampa HAS to shed salary, again only if then they will 100% have to "pay" another team to hell them out.
 

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