Proposal: TB & Jets

[LTIR Trickery]

Cirelli for Jets' 1st rounder (top 10 protected), Lowry or Copp (TB's choice) and Niku.

Forgive me, who's Niku? Not familiar...

EDIT: not like HF is accurate but looking at capfriendly its Sami Niku, not terribly familiar with him but underlying stuff looks decent. Oh, and no - not giving up Cirelli. Just can't.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Would Winnipeg give up a similar package for Ehlers? That's pretty much how we value Cirelli.

Also I love every one who is saying since we had 1 offersheet last year, ITS THE NEW TREND??!?!? f*** all those other years where we haven't seen any. Let's not put it into perspective and state that there has been 1 in over half a decade and it was done by an extremely desperate GM. But no, continue to say how the single outlier case is the standard.

 

[jgimp]

Easy no for Lightning.
Yes they need to make salary cap room. It won't be Cirelli.

Tyler Johnson Killorn will be traded not Cirelli.

While I agree they would rather ditch off some higher cap, with everything I see going on and cap not increasing, as well as the expansion draft, I don’t see many teams doing TBay any favours. Cap is an asset and TBay is going to be in tough. They may have to give up an asset they don’t want to.

 

[jgimp]

Would Winnipeg give up a similar package for Ehlers? That's pretty much how we value Cirelli.

Also I love every one who is saying since we had 1 offersheet last year, ITS THE NEW TREND??!?!? f*** all those other years where we haven't seen any. Let's not put it into perspective and state that there has been 1 in over half a decade and it was done by an extremely desperate GM. But no, continue to say how the single outlier case is the standard.

If we were in tight against the cap, then it’s something we would have to look at. Cap is the new asset and with a flat cap, you guys are in tough. You may have to make a move that is going to hurt and it may be one of Serg or Cirelli. Otherwise your probably getting bent over a barrel to take a high cap hit off your hands.

 

[jgimp]

Tampa is not moving Cirelli unless it's a massive overpayment. Jets' 1st doesn't come close.

While I agree that Cirelli is worth a boatload, he’s hella good, it’s going to take you more to clear cap to re-sign him. Goodbye 1st and good prospect (Foote, Barre-Boulet) to rid Killorn. And is that even enough to resign Serg AND Cernak?
As a Jets fan I’d be willing to deal Samberg, Roslo and our 21’ 1st for Cirelli or Sergachev plus a small add (Stephens, 2nd etc). I think that’s a decent offer. Allows you to resign the others and gives you a LHD and forward who can step into the roster on cheap cap hits.

 

[Flyer lurker]

While I agree they would rather ditch off some higher cap, with everything I see going on and cap not increasing, as well as the expansion draft, I don’t see many teams doing TBay any favours. Cap is an asset and TBay is going to be in tough. They may have to give up an asset they don’t want to.

And I can make the case that asset could be Ryan Mc. And yes Lightning will loss legit top 9 or top 4 dman. Agreed!

But it wont be a 22 year old Cirelli or 21 year old Sergachev.

And there are at least 20 teams that would love to add Killorn cheaply as a middle 6 lw. That ain't a favor. Its smart asset management.

 

[Flyer lurker]

While I agree that Cirelli is worth a boatload, he’s hella good, it’s going to take you more to clear cap to re-sign him. Goodbye 1st and good prospect (Foote, Barre-Boulet) to rid Killorn. And is that even enough to resign Serg AND Cernak?
As a Jets fan I’d be willing to deal Samberg, Roslo and our 21’ 1st for Cirelli or Sergachev plus a small add (Stephens, 2nd etc). I think that’s a decent offer. Allows you to resign the others and gives you a LHD and forward who can step into the roster on cheap cap hits.

As a neutral fan your offer isn't close.

Killorn criminally undervalued if you think lightning have to add to trade. 50-55 point pace, pk2 ability, solid 2 way player and under 5m. MAYBE you can rob Killorn for a 2 and 3 for the cap. But comical to think Foote is going anywhere especially as cap dump. Cernak and Ryan Mc will get exposed before Foote.

 

[Heldig]

And I can make the case that asset could be Ryan Mc. And yes Lightning will loss legit top 9 or top 4 dman. Agreed!

But it wont be a 22 year old Cirelli or 21 year old Sergachev.

And there are at least 20 teams that would love to add Killorn cheaply as a middle 6 lw. That ain't a favor. Its smart asset management.

But does Killorn want to be moved? Why would he?

 

[Flyer lurker]

But does Killorn want to be moved? Why would he?

Would you rather pick what team/teams you are moved to now or risk moving 3000 miles 1 year from now in expansion land?

 

[Snowman]

Would you rather pick what team/teams you are moved to now or risk moving 3000 miles 1 year from now in expansion land?

Don't they have to protect him if he has a NMC?

 

[jgimp]

As a neutral fan your offer isn't close.

Killorn criminally undervalued if you think lightning have to add to trade. 50-55 point pace, pk2 ability, solid 2 way player and under 5m. MAYBE you can rob Killorn for a 2 and 3 for the cap. But comical to think Foote is going anywhere especially as cap dump. Cernak and Ryan Mc will get exposed before Foote.

I don’t disagree with anything you said. TBay is one of my favourite teams and I always come see them when I’m in the area (I’m from Ontario), but with everything that’s happening, the expected flat cap and XD, I am seeing TB in a tough spot. I would be hugely surprised if any team does them a favor. There won’t be many teams able to take much extra cap without expecting a huge return to do so. Realistically, I expect one of Cernak, Serg or Cirelli in a different city next year.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I don’t disagree with anything you said. TBay is one of my favourite teams and I always come see them when I’m in the area (I’m from Ontario), but with everything that’s happening, the expected flat cap and XD, I am seeing TB in a tough spot. I would be hugely surprised if any team does them a favor. There won’t be many teams able to take much extra cap without expecting a huge return to do so. Realistically, I expect one of Cernak, Serg or Cirelli in a different city next year.

Even if people were offering 1 plus for Cernak its tough but I get it. You can call up Foote and I don't think Cernak would be kept in ED (I think Foote is kept as 3rd d). Bitter pill of course.

Its takes one team (with player's permission) to like Gourde, Killorn, or Johnson and make a trade. For example as Flyers fan. Say I can trade 2 for Gourde and then I trade Ghost for 2 to different team. Gourde is far from Flyers biggest need (log jam at c and lw all ready) but at that cost I am thinking long and hard about doing that. Thinking someone who needs a 2/3 lw c won't think as hard.

There is not going to be a 30 team conspiracy so that other teams will not trade for Killorn, Ryan MC, Johnson, Gourde, etc. because everyone is out to get TB. It maybe at cheap prices but still better than losing Serg/Cirelli.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Don't they have to protect him if he has a NMC?

NTC can be exposed in draft.
NMC cannot be exposed.
Only NMC TB players are Stamkos and Hedman.
Link Tampa Bay Lightning - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[jgimp]

Even if people were offering 1 plus for Cernak its tough but I get it. You can call up Foote and I don't think Cernak would be kept in ED (I think Foote is kept as 3rd d). Bitter pill of course.

Its takes one team (with player's permission) to like Gourde, Killorn, or Johnson and make a trade. For example as Flyers fan. Say I can trade 2 for Gourde and then I trade Ghost for 2 to different team. Gourde is far from Flyers biggest need (log jam at c and lw all ready) but at that cost I am thinking long and hard about doing that. Thinking someone who needs a 2/3 lw c won't think as hard.

There is not going to be a 30 team conspiracy so that other teams will not trade for Killorn, Ryan MC, Johnson, Gourde, etc. because everyone is out to get TB. It maybe at cheap prices but still better than losing Serg/Cirelli.

I don’t think there will be a “conspiracy” through the league, but a lot of teams are going to be in tough CAP wise, and taking Killorn, as an example, will be tough for alot of teams to take without getting a large plus, such as Foote. Any team in rebuild, isn’t looking at Killorn without a large add on and most competing teams don’t have the cap to take him. Take into account NTC and MTC’s it’s even tougher to see teams like TBAy to squeeze out of this unfazed.
It’s not that they aren’t tradable, it’s just that they are not worth the CAP hit.

 

[Flyer lurker]

I don’t think there will be a “conspiracy” through the league, but a lot of teams are going to be in tough CAP wise, and taking Killorn, as an example, will be tough for alot of teams to take without getting a large plus, such as Foote. Any team in rebuild isn’t looking at Killorn without a large add on. Take into account NTC and MTC’s it’s even tougher to see teams like TBAy to squeeze out of this unfazed.

Dallas has 20m in cap space, needs forwards, and has no state tax. Killorn could waive NTC to keep the cash. Other than the figuring the cost who says no? Its not that hard to find teams wanting to add 4.5 m players.
Ditto with Colorado.
Once Hall, Hoffman, and Dadonov signed the lw market gets thin quick

 

[Flyer lurker]

Say I am Jersey with boat load of cap space. Alex P, Krug, or Hall aren't signing there lets be honest. I trade Canuck 1 and 3 for Killorn and Gourde in extra value super cheap mode(I get it need permission lets say players allow it). I can retain cap space at deadline and get much more at trade deadline by trading seperately or at least have fall back plan to have a roster if Palmieri leaves end of year. Its not as hard as you think to find teams interested in Gourde Killorn etc.

 

[jetsforever]

I don't watch Cirelli too much but he'd be a nice add - our other weakness is defence though so I'm not sure Niku is very expendable. TB probably declines as well.

 

[surixon]

And I can make the case that asset could be Ryan Mc. And yes Lightning will loss legit top 9 or top 4 dman. Agreed!

But it wont be a 22 year old Cirelli or 21 year old Sergachev.

And there are at least 20 teams that would love to add Killorn cheaply as a middle 6 lw. That ain't a favor. Its smart asset management.

When was the last time an aging middle six player who is clearly a cap dump was traded for a good return especially when the team making the deal has their back against the wall? No way he gets a first round pick.

It doesn't happen anymore in a cap world. Also teams aren't going to overreact to a career season offensively at age 30 given that he has a very strong track record of being a 40 point player who is now past the age of 30 and has three years left on his deal.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I don't watch Cirelli too much but he'd be a nice add - our other weakness is defence though so I'm not sure Niku is very expendable. TB probably declines as well.

TB declines Niku if they are smart can’t see him becoming a regular.

 

[Flyer lurker]

When was the last time an aging middle six player who is clearly a cap dump was traded for a good return especially when the team making the deal has their back against the wall? No way he gets a first round pick.

It doesn't happen anymore in a cap world. Also teams aren't going to overreact to a career season offensively at age 30 given that he has a very strong track record of being a 40 point player who is now past the age of 30 and has three years left on his deal.

Right because there is no JT MILLER way Tb could JT MILLER make a trade against the cap JT MILLER and the team value an JT MILLER asset. (Of course Miller went off chart this year but 18-19 he was 47 point player and not exactly loved).

Last I checked Killorn also is 2 way player and play pk2.

30 years old is now old with 3 year deal? um ok.

Pick 20-35 for that. I would.

And even if it is round 2 and 3 picks for Killorn it is way better option than trading Serg or Cirelli for 1 and scraps.

 

[surixon]

Right because there is no JT MILLER way Tb could JT MILLER make a trade against the cap JT MILLER and the team value an JT MILLER asset. (Of course Miller went off chart this year but 18-19 he was 47 point player and not exactly loved).

Last I checked Killorn also is 2 way player and play pk2.

30 years old is now old with 3 year deal? um ok.

Pick 20-35 for that. I would.

And even if it is round 2 and 3 picks for Killorn it is way better option than trading Serg or Cirelli for 1 and scraps.

You don't see the difference between a 26 year old player and a 30 year old player? Miller prior to his 47 in 75 (paced over 50) point year posted back to back 55 plus point years and plays a power game (Always over values). 30 isn't old but for the vast majority of players its past their best before date and its generally the time their game starts to decline.

It's one thing to pay a first for a proven second line power winger in his physical prime who has a decent contract that ends prior to the age Killorn is now. It's another to buy 3 years of a player north of 30 in which you will likely see a bit of a fall off in performance.

Jets have been unable to find a taker for Perreault who only has a year left at a similar cap value. Teams aren't lining up for aging players. Perrault at the same age as Killorn is now had similar production and was an elite play driver. Jets can't give him away. Teams aren't lining up for older players with term on their deals.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Just another year where people will blame taxes when we manage to keep players and get away with minimal to moderate damage.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

But does Killorn want to be moved? Why would he?

He has to submit a 16 team list.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

If we were in tight against the cap, then it’s something we would have to look at. Cap is the new asset and with a flat cap, you guys are in tough. You may have to make a move that is going to hurt and it may be one of Serg or Cirelli. Otherwise your probably getting bent over a barrel to take a high cap hit off your hands.

No, it's not in the realm of possibility that Serge and Cirelli take bridge deals like every single other RFA in the modern era for Tampa. It's not like they haven't been in this spot before and even tighter to the cap.

 

[Halla]

Killorn reasonable 4.4m salary, was on pace for 55+points, only 13 points on pp since pp2 only from TB sick roster, and can easily PK2, only 31 year old next year. He is an easy sell. Can a team try to screw over TB and only offer say a 2 and 3? They can try but only takes one team with cap space to offer a 1. In a 7-3 keeper format he will get kept. Maybe if Carolina reigns Hamilton and goes 4x4 then Killorn gets exposed but its very very few teams.

Johnson you are correct and you need his permission to trade. It is also a NTC and not a NMC. Time for Johnson to ask himself would be rather get traded to a team he has personally ok'ed or risk move to Seattle 3000 miles away in ED 1 year from now.

killorn isnt getting a 1 even with the career year. he has never hit 50pts and this was the first time he hit 20 goals. he is more or less a 15+g/40+pt 3rd liner, albeit one of the better ones in the league.