Speculation: Taylor Hall - Contract discussion

[Triumph]

He didn't? Then why is Brayden Point signing for $6.75 while Marner and Matthews combine for $22.5 million? Yes, I know they bought UFA years. Using Point's contract as a basis, those UFA years cost Toronto about $15mm per year.

Because Point gave up his leverage by not considering an offer sheet. Point was also drafted in the 3rd round which anchors a player's 2nd contract. It's not hard to read Dubas's desire to get Matthews locked up early as a desire to avoid offer sheet issues, and they had to give Marner a similar deal as a result.

$15M may be the market if the TV contract is big and Seattle enters the league as a large market. I don't know why the TV contract would be big.

 

[Billdo]

Crosby said it best... taking less only works if everyone does.

 

[RSeen]

I agree -- length matters a little more to me than AAV.

Overall, I understand why Hall's camp would want what Tavares and Panarin got, but there are noticeable differences. I can't see Hall's body of work over the last 5 years or so warranting a 7-8 year deal for 11+ AAV. He's too often hurt and the body of work outside of one year just isn't *elite*. He's a great player, but all of these things go into what a contract is. If he wants something ridiculous, I'm moving him to a team without those concerns.

It is almost a guarantee he gets 8 years. There is no way he gets less. He has most of the the leverage.
8 years at $11M+ is likely IMO.

 

[HBK27]

Tavares and Panarin both got $11 million or more. Why what Hall sign for less? If I'm his agent the Panarin contract is what I am demanding.

Panarin is only 2 weeks older than Hall, so his contract starts with his 28 year old season versus 29 for Hall. Panarin has also only missed 6 games in 4 seasons, never playing less than 79 games in a season. Hall has played 79 games or more just once in 9 seasons. Obviously Hall has the MVP season under his belt, but I'm not exactly sure he should be earning more than Panarin.

I also don't think Hall is going to look to break the bank on any deal. Could see something around $76MM over 7 years, but who knows.

 

[Camille the Eel]

We should pay Hall what he asks - assuming he puts down a number to sign now. Not to go to free agency. After the year he had for us 2 seasons back. He brought the excitement back to Devils hockey. He is responsible for the rehabilitation of a franchise that was mired in the mud. The atmosphere in the Rock; the excitement on this board; the legitimacy of the operation . , . He was the key to all of that. If he will resign at a number now, pay him.

 

[Derps]

It is almost a guarantee he gets 8 years. There is no way he gets less. He has most of the the leverage.
8 years at $11M+ is likely IMO.

I'm sure he will, but that shouldn't be from us. Hard pass on that deal and anyone that's gung-ho on doing that deal is insane.

It's not like Hall can only be traded for a crap ton of futures; there's no real reason why we wouldn't be able to move him for immediate help.

EDIT: Just for the record, I love Taylor Hall. He's exciting to watch and my preference would be for him to stay here at a reasonable deal. But I would not feel comfortable a.) giving him an 8 year deal that starts right before his 29th birthday with his injury history and b.) making him a top 1-2 paid winger over that time period when he might not even be a top 10 winger in the league. It's not a good recipe for team building.

 

[MadDevil]

I have a feeling it'll end up in the 10-10.5 million per range.

 

[JrFischer54]

We should pay Hall what he asks - assuming he puts down a number to sign now. Not to go to free agency. After the year he had for us 2 seasons back. He brought the excitement back to Devils hockey. He is responsible for the rehabilitation of a franchise that was mired in the mud. The atmosphere in the Rock; the excitement on this board; the legitimacy of the operation . , . He was the key to all of that. If he will resign at a number now, pay him.

shhhhh too many people are worried about years 5-8 of the 10-11 million cap hit lol. Yes for real

 

[RSeen]

Panarin is only 2 weeks older than Hall, so his contract starts with his 28 year old season versus 29 for Hall. Panarin has also only missed 6 games in 4 seasons, never playing less than 79 games in a season. Hall has played 79 games or more just once in 9 seasons. Obviously Hall has the MVP season under his belt, but I'm not exactly sure he should be earning more than Panarin.

I also don't think Hall is going to look to break the bank on any deal. Could see something around $76MM over 7 years, but who knows.

There is a strong possibility Hall will get overpaid...but the reality is if we don't sign him, someone else will give him the 7 year term. If you want him to stay, you likely have to bring the term.

 

[Nico Hischier]

We really can’t afford anything crazy if we want to keep the kids together. Hopefully he will take 10 mil per. He can make a lot in endorsements and being the face of the team maybe captain

 

[RSeen]

I'm sure he will, but that shouldn't be from us. Hard pass on that deal and anyone that's gung-ho on doing that deal is insane.

It's not like Hall can only be traded for a crap ton of futures; there's no real reason why we wouldn't be able to move him for immediate help.

EDIT: Just for the record, I love Taylor Hall. He's exciting to watch and my preference would be for him to stay here at a reasonable deal. But I would not feel comfortable a.) giving him an 8 year deal that starts right before his 29th birthday with his injury history and b.) making him a top 1-2 paid winger over that time period when he might not even be a top 10 winger in the league. It's not a good recipe for team building.

We are in a position to contend...I don't advocate signing players approaching 30 to these deals, but he is a game breaking talent and I think if you can sign him, you ultimately have to do it.

 

[Billdo]

shhhhh too many people are worried about years 5-8 of the 10-11 million cap hit lol. Yes for real

Im worried he never plays a full 82 or even 75 game season, that's my only concern. Give him 8 years and whatever AAV but I'm worried about his inability to stay home earthy while offering him 8 years.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I'm sure he will, but that shouldn't be from us. Hard pass on that deal and anyone that's gung-ho on doing that deal is insane.

It's not like Hall can only be traded for a crap ton of futures; there's no real reason why we wouldn't be able to move him for immediate help.

EDIT: Just for the record, I love Taylor Hall. He's exciting to watch and my preference would be for him to stay here at a reasonable deal. But I would not feel comfortable a.) giving him an 8 year deal that starts right before his 29th birthday with his injury history and b.) making him a top 1-2 paid winger over that time period when he might not even be a top 10 winger in the league. It's not a good recipe for team building.

I don’t care if his contract stinks 6 years from now. Pay the man his money, win a cup in 2-3 years when Jack and Nico are in their prime.

 

[MadDevil]

shhhhh too many people are worried about years 5-8 of the 10-11 million cap hit lol. Yes for real

The back half of most long term contracts given to players in their late 20's is risky.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Yeah I am not a fan of the idea of letting talent walk away because we don’t want to pay them.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

with how "easy" (relatively speaking) it is to get out of contracts nowadays, I would give him whatever he wanted years wise. Worry about years 6-8 later.

 

[Derps]

I don’t care if his contract stinks 6 years from now. Pay the man his money, win a cup in 2-3 years when Jack and Nico are in their prime.

It's not just 6 years from now that the deal can stink. He has shown over the course of his career a complete inability to stay healthy. You all act like that doesn't matter, but it absolutely should in any deal this team gives him. I know what he is at his peak, and at his peak he is 100% worth any deal they could give him. He's been his peak one time in his career so far.

 

[devilsblood]

Yeah I am not a fan of the idea of letting talent walk away because we don’t want to pay them.

Old regime did OK doing just that.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Old regime did OK doing just that.

this isn't 1998 when players couldnt get to free agency until what, 31?

 

[TrufleShufle]

Taveres talked about how much he loved the island and then left. Hall has done none of that with the Devils, but what he has done is talked about how much he wants the opportunity to win. So if he signs a massive contract that can handcuff the team, that was BS he was throwing around. I know he deserves all he can get. But at the same time, someone who talks about wanting to just be a on a winning team as much as he does, and him knowing who will behind him in line for contracts, would be nice if he showed that with his next contract.

I forget who, but I saw a former GM on TSN the other night who was talking about contracts and low balling guys and being clear with them. "I'm not taking the money I don't want to give you, it is going to go to other guys in the room to make the team better." Kinda changed my perspective on guys signing team freindly contracts vs bleeding the org dry.

No matter what he gets, we will be spending to the cap in a couple years, I hope he wants to win as much as he says he does and takes it all into account.

But at the end of the day, you can never fault a person for getting as much as they can out of a deal, because he and everyone else knows, he can walk straight to UFA and get more.

 

[Triumph]

I'm sure he will, but that shouldn't be from us. Hard pass on that deal and anyone that's gung-ho on doing that deal is insane.

It's not like Hall can only be traded for a crap ton of futures; there's no real reason why we wouldn't be able to move him for immediate help.

Why would anyone give up 'immediate help' for Hall? A team will trade for Taylor Hall because they want to win the Stanley Cup this year, and trading 'immediate help' hurts that goal.

EDIT: Just for the record, I love Taylor Hall. He's exciting to watch and my preference would be for him to stay here at a reasonable deal. But I would not feel comfortable a.) giving him an 8 year deal that starts right before his 29th birthday with his injury history and b.) making him a top 1-2 paid winger over that time period when he might not even be a top 10 winger in the league. It's not a good recipe for team building.

An 8 year deal will almost certainly not end well, and while he may no longer be a top 10 winger in the league due to injury, he was exceptional at the beginning of last season even though he was purportedly never 100%.

 

[MadDevil]

Hall has played 70+ games in 4 of the last 6 years (and 45 of 48 in the lockout shortened season before that) so it's not like he misses a ton of games every season. Even if we only average 70 games a year from him 70 games of Taylor Hall is better than 82 games of a lot of players.

 

[Triumph]

this isn't 1998 when players couldnt get to free agency until what, 31?

They also got a compensatory 2nd round pick if the UFA was paid enough. Pretty much a no-brainer to let those guys go.

 

[R8Devs]

Taveres talked about how much he loved the island and then left. Hall has done none of that with the Devils, but what he has done is talked about how much he wants the opportunity to win. So if he signs a massive contract that can handcuff the team, that was BS he was throwing around. I know he deserves all he can get. But at the same time, someone who talks about wanting to just be a on a winning team as much as he does, and him knowing who will behind him in line for contracts, would be nice if he showed that with his next contract.

I forget who, but I saw a former GM on TSN the other night who was talking about contracts and low balling guys and being clear with them. "I'm not taking the money I don't want to give you, it is going to go to other guys in the room to make the team better." Kinda changed my perspective on guys signing team freindly contracts vs bleeding the org dry.

No matter what he gets, we will be spending to the cap in a couple years, I hope he wants to win as much as he says he does and takes it all into account.

But at the end of the day, you can never fault a person for getting as much as they can out of a deal, because he and everyone else knows, he can walk straight to UFA and get more.

I don't think so. Winning can be his top priority and he could still want top dollar, I don't think it cancels it out. If Hall's comparable is Panarin's contract -- giving a $1m discount on the AAV would be $10.6. But that's giving up 8 million dollars for him which is a huge amount (along with this being his last big contract) and organizations have shown through and through they can find $1m in cap space elsewhere and the $1m being a smaller percentage of the cap every year.

 

[JrFischer54]

It's not just 6 years from now that the deal can stink. He has shown over the course of his career a complete inability to stay healthy. You all act like that doesn't matter, but it absolutely should in any deal this team gives him. I know what he is at his peak, and at his peak he is 100% worth any deal they could give him. He's been his peak one time in his career so far.

I’m not fluid in cap issues but couldn’t he just be put on ltir and we get the cap space back


I also fully believe last year the devils told him he was done. If there was a playoff race going on? He would’ve been back