Tavares vs. Pettersson

[Isaac Nootin]

Were you among those who felt Ovechkin has always been a superior player to Crosby over the course of their respective careers? I'd assume the answer is an emphatic 'yes' given your statement above about the importance of goal scoring.

As I said, goal scoring is important, but it's not enough to overcome a superior all around player.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

As I said, goal scoring is important, but it's not enough to overcome a superior all around player.

But during much of their primes, Crosby wasn't necessarily a "superior all around player". Both roughly produced 100 points each year, but one did it primarily as a goal scorer who could still pass, while the other did it more as a setup man who could also score his share. Often, the difference between the two came down to whether one thought goal scoring was more important than playmaking.

So since the players were, all things being equal, relatively on par with one another much of their careers, who one thinks is better comes down to whether you think Ovechkin's goal scoring trumps Crosby's playmaking. So I wondered if you still felt that goal scoring in that case should give Ovechkin the edge?

 

[Dekes For Days]

But during much of their primes, Crosby wasn't necessarily a "superior all around player".

Crosby has been better for pretty much his whole career, other than maybe a few year period in the late 2000s.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Comparing a 20 some goal 66 point player to a proven 47-goal 88 point center? That's precisely a vastly superior point producer. 22 points isn't enough for you?

Tavares very clearly has an edge in pretty well every aspect. Pettersson is very lucky to have J.T Miller cover for him in terms of defense and faceoffs.

And who was talking about deceitful ?

Comparing a full season to one shortened by a pandemic...

Nice.

 

[Teflon Jim]

If Tavares was

You’re basically saying Pettersson isn’t in his prime yet, so RIGHT NOW he’s not in his prime, meanwhile Tavares still is. You’re saying a 2nd year Petterssen is better than a prime Tavares. That’s where I’ve been saying I disagree at this time to crown Pettersson better.

If Pettersson is an elite player, why did he not make a big jump in production in year 2? Who’s to say he doesn’t top out as a sub ppg player? Because this year sure as hell didn’t do Pettersson any favours in regards to taking that next step.

In his prime why did he regress this year .
He's no longer in his prime but is now past his prime and is getting a little ripe perhaps
The fresh new star Pettersson is a rising star while Tavaras is a falling star fading away as all the oldies do.

 

[Byron Bitz]

That explains why he got destroyed in that matchup

Tavares had more points and a beat in the face off circle.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If Tavares was

In his prime why did he regress this year .
He's no longer in his prime but is now past his prime and is getting a little ripe perhaps
The fresh new star Pettersson is a rising star while Tavaras is a falling star fading away as all the oldies do.

Tavares last season certainly has lost a step. Here are a couple of clips that show exactly how much he declined last year defensively. Unfortunately for him he was never quick to begin with. His GA60 5v5 3.34 was the worst on The Leafs last season which accounted for his -7. Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
If the poll question is to try and win now, EP had a better season. His 5 5v GA60 was 3rd best on the Canucks at 2.34. His legs are younger and fresher. For me it is EP now. The only edge Tavares has on him is faceoffs.

 

[Taluss]

I think Pettersson is the better player, but I'll take Tavares here due to more experience and leading a team for years. That's the type of player I'd want to win asap.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Tavares last season certainly has lost a step. Here are a couple of clips that show exactly how much he declined last year defensively. Unfortunately for him he was never quick to begin with. His GA60 5v5 3.34 was the worst on The Leafs last season which accounted for his -7. Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
If the poll question is to try and win now, EP had a better season. His 5 5v GA60 was 3rd best on the Canucks at 2.34. His legs are younger and fresher. For me it is EP now. The only edge Tavares has on him is faceoffs.

This past season Tavares also scored these game winning goals in overtime. Although since you won't post anything positive he does I might as well include them.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This past season Tavares also scored these game winning goals in overtime. Although since you won't post anything positive he does I might as well include them.

We were discussing his year where he is slower and his play declined on defence. Not sure what this has to do with me and what the other poster were discussing? If you want to just post random highlights, I don't see the reasoning to quote my post. It has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

 

[LeafsNation75]

We were discussing his year where his playe declined on defence. Not sure what this has to do with me and what the other poster were discussing? If you want to just want to post random highlights, I don't see the reasoning to quote my post. It has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

So you posting this video where Tavares had the puck stolen off him wasn't done intentional and your way of saying he sucks?

One bad play like that doesn't speak to what Tavares is today and all players make mistakes.

 

[Dache]

Who cares about the Islanders regular season because it grand scheme it means nothing if you don't win the Stanley Cup. Look at what happened to the Tampa Bay Lightning's 62 wins and 128 points.

No matter how many excuses you try to make the Islanders had the same results in the 2019 playoffs without Tavares, compared to the 2016 when they still had Tavares. So I will say this again.

With Tavares they won in the first round against the Panthers and lost in the second round against the Lightning. Plus everyone said Tavares was the only reason they won that series with his 5 goals and 4 assists in the six games. Hell in Game 6 alone Tavares had the game tying goal late in the 3rd period playing 6v5 and the series winning goal in double overtime.

Without Tavares they won in the first round against the Penguins and lost in the second round against the Hurricanes.

So what you’re saying is having Tavares or not doesn’t make much difference in the playoffs?

 

[LeafsNation75]

So what you’re saying is having Tavares or not doesn’t make much difference in the playoffs?

What I'm saying is Tavares leaving the Islanders as a UFA was not the reason for whatever success the Islanders had in the 2018-19 season. They got very lucky with their goaltending from Robin Lehner.

 

[Dache]

Ok let me answer your question then.

You take the guy who scored 47 goals last season.


Not the 150lbs, career 20 odd goal scorer.

almost sounds like you’re talking about Marner with the 2nd part there. But he doesn’t score that many goals.

 

[LeafsNation75]

almost sounds like you’re talking about Marner with the 2nd part there. But he doesn’t score that many goals.

Marner's only had a 94 point season and Pettersson's only had back to back 66 point seasons.

 

[Dache]

What I'm saying is Tavares leaving the Islanders as a UFA was not the reason for whatever success the Islanders had in the 2018-19 season. They got very lucky with their goaltending from Robin Lehner.

No what you were saying is you’re valuing Tavares playoff success/performance. Then you were shown that the same team
Performed equally without him, and yet again you’re moving goalposts.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So you posting this video where Tavares had the puck stolen off him wasn't done intentional and your way of saying he sucks?



One bad play like that doesn't speak to what Tavares is today and all players make mistakes.

2 bad plays where he was at fault actually. The stats and videos back up the eye test. He had the worst 5 v 5 metrics on the Leafs in GA60 3.34 and was a -7. We were discussing his declining play last season in particular his defensively play. What do you want me to post to illustrate this, his goals?

 

[Dache]

Marner's only had a 94 point season and Pettersson's only had back to back 66 point seasons.

But goals matter the most don’t they?

 

[LeafsNation75]

No what you were saying is you’re valuing Tavares playoff success/performance. Then you were shown that the same team
Performed equally without him, and yet again you’re moving goalposts.

I was saying Tavares was the reason why the Islanders actually won a playoff series in 2016, since he had 5 goals and 4 assists in six games, which included the series winning goal in double overtime.

This reply saying they had 103 points in 2018-19 and sweeping the Penguins without him didn't mean the Islanders were a better team because Tavares left as a UFA. They got very lucky with a hot goalie in Robin Lehner. Matt Barzal was their leading scorer and only had 62 points, so they relied on Lehner to win them a lot of their games.

The Isles went from 80 points out of the playoffs with Tavares to 103 points in the playoffs with a 4 game sweep of the Pens without Tavares. They didn't do better without him? They were much better as a team without him trying to pad his stats on his 2 mins shifts.

Regardless, the point was, when I replied to the poster that said they would take Tavares based on playoff experience. My question was Isn't it better to take a player with more winning experiences rather than a player with losing experiences.

 

[Dache]

I was saying Tavares was the reason why the Islanders actually won a playoff series in 2016,

I know. And I’m saying if they beat a better team the first year without him, is he really the reason they win that series? Sure he had a good series, but if he’s not there maybe someone else picks up the slack with the extra opportunity

 

[LeafsNation75]

But goals matter the most don’t they?

It seems on these boards if I say how great Auston Matthews was as a rookie scoring 40 goals, non Leafs fans bring up that he only had 69 points that season. Today after he scored 47 goals the comments are so what all he did was only get 80 points. So it seems the goal posts keep getting moved depending how the Leafs players perform and what their stats are.

 

[Dache]

It seems on these boards if I say how great Auston Matthews was as a rookie scoring 40 goals, non Leafs fans bring up that he only had 69 points that season. Today after he scored 47 goals the comments are so what all he did was only get 80 points. So it seems the goal posts keep getting moved depending how the Leafs players perform and what their stats are.

So then you’re going to use points and not goals from now on? Other posters consistently using points, is not the same as you flipping back and forth between points or goals being more important depending on which leaf you’re talking about.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I was saying Tavares was the reason why the Islanders actually won a playoff series in 2016, since he had 5 goals and 4 assists in six games, which included the series winning goal in double overtime.

As he only had 1 goal and 1 assist in the next 5 games, is he to blame for the Isles loss in the 2nd round ?

 

[PWJunior]

So then you’re going to use points and not goals from now on? Other posters consistently using points, is not the same as you flipping back and forth between points or goals being more important depending on which leaf you’re talking about.

Ahem, Thomas Greiss played a huge role for that series win as well. As obvious as what Pajamas did offensively, the Isles had no business winning that series if Greiss didn't stand on his head. Just to set the record straight.

EDIT: Sorry, I responded to the wrong post.

As for your point about moving the goalposts, that's standard procedure for him.

 

[LeafsNation75]

So then you’re going to use points and not goals from now on? Other posters consistently using points, is not the same as you flipping back and forth between points or goals being more important depending on which leaf you’re talking about.

Next season if Auston Matthews scores 55 goals and only 35 assists it would give him 90 points. In that hypothetical will he get criticism for not getting at least 95 points? This season he was 3rd overall in goal scoring and it was the second time he was top 3 in that category. However like I said before some people thought him scoring only 80 points didn't make him any better.